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Re: Yikes

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Cycling Equipment
Published
19 June 2007
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19 June 2007
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Tom Nakashima
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  1. "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:07:22 -0600, [email hidden] wrote:

    >On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:34:37 -0600, [email hidden] wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:48:32 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
    >><[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>><[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>>news:[email hidden]...
    >>>> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:39:27 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
    >>>> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>"still me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>>>>news:[email hidden]...
    >>>>>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:51:47 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
    >>>>>> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>I'll have to say the electronic cyclometer, which was started by
    >>>>>>>Avocet
    >>>>>>>back in '83.
    >>>>>>>-tom
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> How crude a device do you attach to the word "cyclometer"? I have
    >>>>>> an
    >>>>>> Avocet that does speed, mph, ride distance and I was sure it was
    >>>>>> older
    >>>>>> than '83.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>It could be you have a prototype from Palo Alto Bicycles?
    >>>>>-tom
    >>>>
    >>>> Dear Tom,
    >>>>
    >>>> "AVOCET pioneered bicycle electronics in 1985 with the Cyclometer
    >>>> 20."
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.avocet.com/cyclopages/cyclo.html
    >>>>
    >>>> Cheers,
    >>>
    >>>Dear
    >>>> Carl Fogel
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Dear Carl,
    >>>Scroll down to 1983
    >>>http://www.jimlangley.net/ride/bicyclehistorywh.html
    >>>Cheers,
    >>>-tom
    >>
    >>Dear Tom,
    >>
    >>The disagreement between the 1985 date given by Avocet for when it
    >>"pioneered bicycle electronics" with a specific model and the 1983
    >>date given in Jim Langley's widely reproduced timeline with no model
    >>mentioned is one reason why I take that enjoyable timeline with a
    >>grain of nit-picking salt.
    >>
    >>I don't know which date is right(er), but I tend to believe a specific
    >>claim by the manufacturer over a snippet in a wide-ranging survey.
    >>
    >>That said, the Avocet claim for the model 20 pioneering things in 1985
    >>raises the possibility of an earlier model 10 prototype, possibly not
    >>commercial, that someone might dig up.
    >>
    >>And whoever scribbles the Avocet web site details could be the one
    >>who's confused, not Jim Langley.
    >>
    >>This kind of stuff causes the pedantic heart to beat faster, as anyone
    >>who's quarreled over the dating of "The Tempest" knows.
    >>
    >>Bierce cast his usual light on such matters:
    >>
    >>"GNOME, n. In North-European mythology, a dwarfish imp inhabiting the
    >>interior parts of the earth and having special custody of mineral
    >>treasures. Bjorsen, who died in 1765, says gnomes were common enough
    >>in the southern parts of Sweden in his boyhood, and he frequently saw
    >>them scampering on the hills in the evening twilight. Ludwig
    >>Binkerhoof saw three as recently as 1792, in the Black Forest, and
    >>Sneddeker avers that in 1803 they drove a party of miners out of a
    >>Silesian mine. Basing our computations upon data supplied by these
    >>statements, we find that the gnomes were probably extinct as early as
    >>1764."
    >>
    >>Cheers,
    >>
    >>Carl Fogel
    >
    >Aha! Googling for avocet + cyclocomputer + 1983 doesn't turn up
    >anything useful, but avocet + cyclcomputer + 1984 turns up a mention
    >of an Avocet C-10 "that came out around 1984":
    >
    >http://archive.roadbikereview.com/04/0EF1E2CD.php
    >
    >That thread also includes a claim that electronic stuff was already
    >available and that Avocet only made them smaller.
    >
    >Both claims are off-the-top-of-someone's-head. It's worth noting that
    >the thread opens with someone remembering Avocet making cyclocomputers
    >"around the '70's."
    >
    >More searching yields this:
    >
    >MSS.328/C/12/4/448, 664-678 Historic photographs arranged by subject:
    >Technical: Trade Pictures 1984-1988, undated
    >
    >664 a. Chains
    >664 a. Drawing of chain construction.
    >665 a-c. Components
    >665 a-c. Weinmann components - 2 brake levers and displays.
    >666 a-j Computers
    >666 a. Peugeot KSC-1. b. Avocet. c. Peugeot KSC-2. d. Cyclotronic. e.
    >Heret Multronic and magnet. f. Cateye Solar. g. Cisiomaster. h. ditto
    >- fork fitting. i. Catevemate. j. Avocet.
    >666 k-n. Computer Sensors
    >666 k. Cyclotronic large sensor - multi pole magnet. l. Handlebar
    >Ciciomaster. m. Typical standard sensor. n. Avocet.
    >
    >http://www.warwick.ac.uk/services/library/mrc/ead/328c.htm
    >
    >This puts Avocet somewhere in 1984-1988, but it could still be
    >earlier, particularly since it took a while for stuff to reach England
    >from Palo Alto.
    >
    >But it also raises Peugeot, Cyclotronic, and Multronic and others as
    >possible rivals for the earliest cyclocomputer.
    >
    >Here's a 1984 brochure for the Sachs/Huret Multronic:
    >
    >http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/broderir/Catalogs-Posters/Huret/1984/Page+01.jpg.html
    >
    >So cyclocomputers clearly pre-date the Avocet site claim of pioneering
    >things in 1985.
    >
    >Here's a no-date picture of a Cyclotronic, just because the huge
    >magnet ring can be mistaken for a disk brake:
    >
    >http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/boeding.htm
    >
    >The Peugeot eludes me.
    >
    >With luck, these details may stir some memories and links to old,
    >oddball cyclocomputers.
    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >Carl Fogel

    Fumbling with the U.S. Patent office yields a 1977 filing and 1979
    patent issue for an electronic bicycle speedometer that cleverly uses
    the trigger of the bigger blink of the valve stem interrupting a light
    beam:

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4156190.PN.&OS=PN/4156190&RS=PN/4156190

    CF

    Oh, dear!

    A very specific and earlier claim from yet a different company:

    "Oct. 1981 Microcomputer-based cyclocomputer "CAT EYE VELO" was
    developed and mass production commenced."

    http://www.jbpi.or.jp/english/JBG/JBG2006-2007/data/018-021.pdf

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Report on Enigma decipherment 1 November 1939
    http://www.turing.org.uk/sources/nov39.html
    See #3 Cyclometer.
    Cheers,
    -tom

    Taken from a Sears Catalog of 1908:
    http://www.stanford.edu/~scamp/mountlowe/archives/Cyclometer.jpg
    -tom

  2. On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:08:11 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Report on Enigma decipherment 1 November 1939
    http://www.turing.org.uk/sources/nov39.html
    See #3 Cyclometer.
    Cheers,
    -tom

    Taken from a Sears Catalog of 1908:
    http://www.stanford.edu/~scamp/mountlowe/archives/Cyclometer.jpg
    -tom

    Dear Tom,

    Mechanical odometers go back to the Romans.

    Skipping a thousand years or so, here's an InterBike 1897 review of
    Haney, Trenton, Waterbury, and Veeder mechanical cyclometers, at the
    very end of the pdf:

    http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_30/outXXX01/outXXX01w.pdf

    Karl Kron's 700+ page "Ten Thousand Miles on a Bicycle" from 1887
    offers thousands of cyclometer readings. His interest was shared, as
    pathetic queries like this indicate:

    "Question 8. Do you know of a perfectly reliable cyclometer?"
    --Outing magazine 1883
    http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII03/outII03p.pdf

    "Question 15.—Can you recommend the Ritchie cyclometer?"
    --Outing magazine 1883
    http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_03/outIII01/outIII01t.pdf

    Here's an 1894 cyclometer:

    http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1894+Bridgeport+Cyclometer+1%2Ejpg
    http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1894+Bridgeport+Cyclometer+2%2Ejpg

    And an 1895:

    http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1895+NY+Standard+cyclometer+2%2Ejpg
    http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1895+NY+Standard+cyclometer%2Ejpg

    The 28" refers to the intended wheel size.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  3. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:08:11 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Report on Enigma decipherment 1 November 1939
    http://www.turing.org.uk/sources/nov39.html
    See #3 Cyclometer.
    Cheers,
    -tom

    Taken from a Sears Catalog of 1908:
    http://www.stanford.edu/~scamp/mountlowe/archives/Cyclometer.jpg
    -tom

    Dear Tom,

    Mechanical odometers go back to the Romans.

    Skipping a thousand years or so, here's an InterBike 1897 review of
    Haney, Trenton, Waterbury, and Veeder mechanical cyclometers, at the
    very end of the pdf:

    http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_30/outXXX01/outXXX01w.pdf

    Karl Kron's 700+ page "Ten Thousand Miles on a Bicycle" from 1887
    offers thousands of cyclometer readings. His interest was shared, as
    pathetic queries like this indicate:

    "Question 8. Do you know of a perfectly reliable cyclometer?"
    --Outing magazine 1883
    http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII03/outII03p.pdf

    "Question 15.-Can you recommend the Ritchie cyclometer?"
    --Outing magazine 1883
    http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_03/outIII01/outIII01t.pdf

    Here's an 1894 cyclometer:

    http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1894+Bridgeport+Cyclometer+1%2Ejpg
    http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1894+Bridgeport+Cyclometer+2%2Ejpg

    And an 1895:

    http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1895+NY+Standard+cyclometer+2%2Ejpg
    http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1895+NY+Standard+cyclometer%2Ejpg

    The 28" refers to the intended wheel size.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Yes, I can picture Ben-Hur reading the cyclometer on his chariot
    with sword in hand in a mini skirt...bend over Charlton Heston,
    -tom

  4. Tom Nakashima said:


    Yes, I can picture Ben-Hur reading the cyclometer on his chariot
    with sword in hand in a mini skirt...bend over Charlton Heston,
    -tom

    I just checked the back of mine. It has Patent 4007419 on it, which
    refers to a patent from 1977.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4007419.PN.&OS=PN/4007419&RS=PN/4007419

    I called Avocet, but he didn't have any real historical information on
    it and could not identify a year any better than we have here.

  5. On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:16:54 GMT, still me <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Tom Nakashima said:


    Yes, I can picture Ben-Hur reading the cyclometer on his chariot
    with sword in hand in a mini skirt...bend over Charlton Heston,
    -tom

    I just checked the back of mine. It has Patent 4007419 on it, which
    refers to a patent from 1977.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4007419.PN.&OS=PN/4007419&RS=PN/4007419

    I called Avocet, but he didn't have any real historical information on
    it and could not identify a year any better than we have here.

    Dear S,

    Even Popular Mechanics is a bit uncertain:

    "Build a digital bicycle speedometer. LED readouts indicate speed from
    1 to 99 miles per hour. Uses magnets mounted on the rim of wheel to
    trigger a switch on each revolution."

    POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Mar 1977 (v.11#3) pg. 39
    Correction POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Jul 1977 (v.12#1) pg. 7
    Correction POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Aug 1977 (v.12#2) pg. 6

    http://www.nleindex.com/index.php?pID=HTDI&sID=BrowseIndex&tID=E/1544

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  6. Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:16:54 GMT, still me <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Tom Nakashima said:


    Yes, I can picture Ben-Hur reading the cyclometer on his chariot
    with sword in hand in a mini skirt...bend over Charlton Heston,
    -tom

    I just checked the back of mine. It has Patent 4007419 on it, which
    refers to a patent from 1977.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4007419.PN.&OS=PN/4007419&RS=PN/4007419

    I called Avocet, but he didn't have any real historical information on
    it and could not identify a year any better than we have here.

    Dear S,

    Even Popular Mechanics is a bit uncertain:

    "Build a digital bicycle speedometer. LED readouts indicate speed from
    1 to 99 miles per hour. Uses magnets mounted on the rim of wheel to
    trigger a switch on each revolution."

    POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Mar 1977 (v.11#3) pg. 39
    Correction POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Jul 1977 (v.12#1) pg. 7
    Correction POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Aug 1977 (v.12#2) pg. 6

    http://www.nleindex.com/index.php?pID=HTDI&sID=BrowseIndex&tID=E/1544

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Aaargh! Horrible mistake!

    Popular _Electronics_, not Johnnie-come-lately Popular _Mechanics_,
    which came the following year:

    "Build an inexpensive 2-digit digital speedometer for your bike.
    Measure speeds up to 99 mph. Est. cost: $40."
    POPULAR MECHANICS Feb 1978 (v.149#2) pg. 38G

    http://www.nleindex.com/index.php?pID=HTDI&sID=BrowseIndex&tID=E/1544

    CF

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