Vitamin question

Once upon a time, our fellow Martin Lynch rambled on about "Vitamin question." Our champion
De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quoted message said:

So doesn't that mean that a multi-vitamin that contains BOTH Zinc and Copper will render the two
vitamins pretty much useless?

Those who take vitamins seriously think a single multi-vitamin pill is much useless. That is why
individual vitamin pills were invented.

In addition, the multivitamin pill is mostly to do a number on your stomach, as well as
not dissolve.

Generally, copper should not be supplemented unless you are taking more than 75 mg of zinc a day.

Just thought that you might want to know. 🙂

(Martin Lynch) said:

I heard that certain vitamins should not be taken at the same time. For example, Zinc and Copper
work against each other -- one can lead to a deficiency in the other.

Neither zinc, nor copper are vitamins, but trace minerals needed by body. But they should not be
given at the same time since they compete for the uptake transporter. The same do iron and chromium.
Chromium is needed by chromomodulin, a compound in the signal pathway from insulin binding to
insulin receptors to the effect of glucose uptake and glycogen production in cells. For the same
amount of insulin receptors satiated, the glucose uptake may increase more than tenfold since the
dose-response curve go from hyperbolic satiation curve to sigmoid response curve where plateau of
dose-response curve in 100% satiated chromomoduline may be about 10-15 times higher than in
chromomoduline free status. Trivalent chromium deficiency is quite normal in western diet due to
high preprocessing which may leak out most of the chromium and oxidicing of the left over from CrIII
to CrVI, which is highly carcinogenic. Unrefined cane sugar, that is, the sap of the cane is
reported to be very rich in CrIII :-) Refined sugar, on the other side is completely devoid of it,
and rather increase the loss of Cr from body becaue high glucose status leads to loss of Cr :-( I
for my part take now 400 ug Cr daily and when I forget to take them for several days, my glucose
status increases, even when taking insulin. (Since effect of insulin is reduced to 1/10 if I get
devoid of Cr)

Martin Lynch said:

I have a question about multi-vitamins.

I heard that certain vitamins should not be taken at the same time. For example, Zinc and Copper
work against each other -- one can lead to a deficiency in the other.

So doesn't that mean that a multi-vitamin that contains BOTH Zinc and Copper will render the two
vitamins pretty much useless?

Yes this it right so. With multipreparations you do not have this possibility at all, and with
monopreparations the combination of different products is very tedious and expensive. I can
recommend the FitLine® products from PM-International. The MODULAR CONCEPT of the FitLine® products
ensures an optimal combination of the single products! More informations on the website
fitline.allgaeu.orgfitline.allgaeu.orgOpen ↗

That is if you are taking more of one than the other.

So in essence, you would want BOTH, not just one of them in a supplement.

Trent

-- Look and Feel Great! FREE weight loss and anti-aging group. Join now @
groups.yahoo.comweightloss healthOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Martin Lynch) Organization: groups.google.comgroups.google.comOpen ↗ Newsgroups:
sci.med.nutrition Date: 2 Nov 2003 20:37:04 -0800 Subject: Vitamin question

I have a question about multi-vitamins.

I heard that certain vitamins should not be taken at the same time. For example, Zinc and Copper
work against each other -- one can lead to a deficiency in the other.

So doesn't that mean that a multi-vitamin that contains BOTH Zinc and Copper will render the two
vitamins pretty much useless?

Sabine Fleschutz said:

Martin Lynch said:

I have a question about multi-vitamins.

I heard that certain vitamins should not be taken at the same time. For example, Zinc and Copper
work against each other -- one can lead to a deficiency in the other.

So doesn't that mean that a multi-vitamin that contains BOTH Zinc and Copper will render the two
vitamins pretty much useless?

Yes this it right so.

BS. There is lots of food that has zinc and copper both in them and yet your body can get at them.

Zinc and Copper do not "work against each other". When your body is working with Zinc, "using it",
it needs Copper to do so. So eating large amounts of Zinc without also extra amounts of Copper will
leave you Copper deficient. A good mulitvitamin with high Zinc (e.g. 30mg) therefore usually also
has some Copper (e.g. 1mg) in it to keep the balance.

In other cases it is about what your body can process at the same time. For example, the parts of
your digestive tract that deal with Magnesium also deal with Calcium, but not both at the same time.
So taking Mg and Ca at the same time could be considered to be a bad idea, but in reality, this part
of your digestive tract is not a single component, but a combination of said parts and some will
deal with only the Ca and some with only the Mg at the same time.

When people take multivitamins, you can measure a rise in all ingredients in their
bloodstream/system afterwards, and not only of, say, the copper OR the zinc.

Sure, splitting such minerals and vitamins into different doses of the day may optimize the
bioavailability, but there are other factors too, and its a lot more complicated.

Cheers,

Hannes