Here is an idea

Bro Deal said:

If a rider tests positive his whole team gets suspended for a month or two. Combine this with much more frequent testing and the team's have a vested interest in preventing doping--or preventing riders from getting caught. Right now the team does not suffer except for a minor PR problem that blows over in a week after the fire the rider and claim they knew nothing.

Not bad but there aint a hell of a lot riders testing positive.... I mean fark me Basso was on more gear than Kurt Cobain and never once troubled the boys in the lab.....

Sure as team sport, a doped rider needs to affect the team too : sportive and financial punishment!

whiteboytrash said:

Not bad but there aint a hell of a lot riders testing positive.... I mean fark me Basso was on more gear than Kurt Cobain and never once troubled the boys in the lab.....

Good point. Testing would need to be stepped up. There is no reason to rely soley on the testosterone TE ratio test when the far more accurate CIR is available. I have said before that for about half a million a year per team you could test each rider once a week.

I am not sure about that but I think that as a general rule in team sports the team doesn't suffer from individual players' doping. Unless it can be proven that the team organized and provided the doping. It's the same in European football/basketball. I don't know of any sport that punishes teams instead of/and players. And I am not sure about the fairness of it. I mean what if really the team doesn't know anything and doesn't have the budget that T-Mobile has to run so many expensive tests on its own cyclists? Why punish (and possibly lead to bankruptcy) the whole team for the mistake of an individual. What about the loss of earnings of the other cyclists? Some domestiques ( I suspect quite a few) aren't paid much. Why should they lose their income?

I think the best punishment is life bans for doppers. No 2nd chances...

whiteboytrash said:

Not bad but there aint a hell of a lot riders testing positive.... I mean fark me Basso was on more gear than Kurt Cobain and never once troubled the boys in the lab.....

Random police raids on every team throughout the season is the only possible option for eliminating drugs. Hotels, cars, stopping motorbikes at checkpoints, all need to be searched and seized. Chipping the riders and having cameras everywhere is a possibility for the future, mabe 20 years down the road. But, with genetic engineering the doping could become out of control, and they've already been doing that for a few years? I think if people want to cheat the system than what can you do? Its like speeding 90mph on the interstate, if you dont get caught then they just do it. Everyone speeds. THink of the disaster it would be if they actually cracked down all at once, the sponsors would say, by by; and cycling would be about as popular as cricket. 😉

DV1976 said:

I am not sure about that but I think that as a general rule in team sports the team doesn't suffer from individual players' doping. Unless it can be proven that the team organized and provided the doping. It's the same in European football/basketball. I don't know of any sport that punishes teams instead of/and players. And I am not sure about the fairness of it. I mean what if really the team doesn't know anything and doesn't have the budget that T-Mobile has to run so many expensive tests on its own cyclists? Why punish (and possibly lead to bankruptcy) the whole team for the mistake of an individual. What about the loss of earnings of the other cyclists? Some domestiques ( I suspect quite a few) aren't paid much. Why should they lose their income?

I think the best punishment is life bans for doppers. No 2nd chances...

All these ProTour guys are on the juice. 99.8% of them. Everyone talks about how they are not a big deal so they must not be on drugs, they are, dont believe the lies! If the sport is to clean itself up we need to face reality.

DV1976 said:

I think the best punishment is life bans for doppers. No 2nd chances...

That's too harsh IMO. Better concentrate on the lax penalties handed out to real criminals .....

Plus, an errant lab (science is 100%) could end one's career. Four years (2+2) is pretty severe since it strips away a cyclist's prime racing years.

Strike two and your out is a better idea.

But, you need the same rules to apply to all professional and amateur sports. If it is really the W(orld)ADA, then why punish a few athletes (cyclists) while others are allowed to dope and prosper as the fans applaud and fill the stands.

DV1976 said:

I am not sure about that but I think that as a general rule in team sports the team doesn't suffer from individual players' doping. Unless it can be proven that the team organized and provided the doping. It's the same in European football/basketball. I don't know of any sport that punishes teams instead of/and players.

If a player make a big fault in football (the one which is play with feet and not hand) or in rugby or handball, a player is out. And his team has to play with one player missing.

It would be just another step in driving off sponsorship.

Bro Deal said:

If a rider tests positive his whole team gets suspended for a month or two. Combine this with much more frequent testing and the team's have a vested interest in preventing doping--or preventing riders from getting caught. Right now the team does not suffer except for a minor PR problem that blows over in a week after the fire the rider and claim they knew nothing.

Well, finally someone proposes a solution to the problem rather that [censored] about it. Thank you.

I like it. I just think the more you put the onus on the team as a whole, the better results you will get. The only problem I see with this proposal would be, much more negative exposure for the sponsor in the media. It would no longer be "Limerickman" suspended for doping it would be "Team Guinness" suspended for doping. The enthusiast would have to sell his ass off in the boardroom.

WBT brings up a good point,,,, the riders rarely get caught.

poulidor said:

If a player make a big fault in football (the one which is play with feet and not hand) or in rugby or handball, a player is out. And his team has to play with one player missing.

Oh come on this is completely different. We are not talking about what happens DURING the course of a match/race. Moreover, the team doesn't lose the game (necessarily) neither is suspended for X number of matches after that because a player got a red card...

I think sufficient punishment for the team is the loss of that rider for the season. Punishing the entire team and the corporate sponsor will kill any incentive for companies to financially contribute.

I would:
1. Suspend the rider for the remainder of the season/year
2. The next year he is on probation and must be tested at least weekly, and the tests don't just include the standard tests, but also look at red cell indices and other factors that may show indications of dopage. The rider will be suspended until these 'abnormalities' are explained medically or otherwise.
3. The rider forfeits all results for the season he was caught and the year prior. Whether he must repay earnings from those races? I'm undecided.
4. He must cooperate with investigators. If he fails to do so, then he is banned for life.

For anyone in team management found to be complicit in doping it equals a life ban from any involvement in the sport.

Any rider convicted of a doping offense and did not cooperate will be banned from the sport (not just racing) for life.

bikerboy said:

All these ProTour guys are on the juice. 99.8% of them. Everyone talks about how they are not a big deal so they must not be on drugs, they are, dont believe the lies! If the sport is to clean itself up we need to face reality.

Erik is part of the 0.2%. Take a good look at that baby face to the left. He wouldn't even pop a Panadol.

Russ Reynolds said:

Erik is part of the 0.2%. Take a good look at that baby face to the left. He wouldn't even pop a Panadol.

Reports said he tired EPO in the early days of Telekom along with Mr 60%. Decided it didnt do anything for him and never went back

However Im sure he's on something because there's plenty of innocent looking riders that have done plenty bad things

A possible approach that is a bit less draconian but that still inflicts some pain on the team: If a rider is caught doping, that team loses a starting position for some period of time, like maybe a year. So not only do they lose the services of the suspended rider, but they also start every race a man short compared to other teams -- eight riders line up for the start of the TdF instead of nine, etc. Two riders caught doping you start two men short, and so on.

It all goes back to what WBT said though. Increasing the penalties will only result in increased efforts by the cyclists and their "handlers" to ensure that they don't get caught. It won't likely result in less doping. Although this way if someone does screw-up and get caught, they'd be more farked.

meehs said:

It all goes back to what WBT said though. Increasing the penalties will only result in increased efforts by the cyclists and their "handlers" to ensure that they don't get caught. It won't likely result in less doping. Although this way if someone does screw-up and get caught, they'd be more farked.

I'm more interested in doing something "fair". It's not fair for a doper to keep his titles when doping, nor to benefit from the dope for the rest of the season. Taking away results for the season and banning them from competition for the remainder of the year doesn't seem harsh at all. A period of probation with intense monitoring is certainly reasonable and any repentant doper would welcome the chance to prove his honesty.