"fixed" freewheel, variable gear?

"Byron Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So why is this a silly idea? Has anyone tried it? Suggestions for how to

fix

Quoted message said:

the hub?

If you stop pedalling, the derailleur winds up and breaks off the derailleur tab..not good.

Cheers,

Scott..

Byron Sheppard said:

I've been reading all the threads about fixed gear and am sold on the benefits. Can't wait
to try one.

But while thinking about it during a ride one day, I got to wondering if anyone has tried fixing
the freewheel (or freehub) but still having a cassette and multiple gears? This would seem to
provide many of the benefits of a fixed gear while still offering the flexibility to maintain
cadence through gear changes. It also means that it might be possible to convert a bike to
"fixedwheel" or "fixedhub" with no other drivetrain changes.

So why is this a silly idea? Has anyone tried it? Suggestions for how to fix the hub?

thanks, byron

Apart from snapping off the derailleur, simply locking down the freewheel doesn't get over the
problem of reverse chain tension unscrewing the freewheel from the hub. If you want a fixed wheel
without a new wheel, there's an expensive converter which puts fixed cog and lockring threads on a
shimano or compatible freehub, and a similar product is also available for threaded freewheel hubs.
If you really want a multispeed fixed, you need to invest in some rare and very expensive retro
parts from Campag or Sturmey-Archer.

But why make life complex? Just rebuild your back wheel around a track hub and learn to pedal fast!

Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

Byron Sheppard may have said:

I've been reading all the threads about fixed gear and am sold on the benefits. Can't wait
to try one.

But while thinking about it during a ride one day, I got to wondering if anyone has tried fixing
the freewheel (or freehub) but still having a cassette and multiple gears? This would seem to
provide many of the benefits of a fixed gear while still offering the flexibility to maintain
cadence through gear changes. It also means that it might be possible to convert a bike to
"fixedwheel" or "fixedhub" with no other drivetrain changes.

So why is this a silly idea? Has anyone tried it? Suggestions for how to fix the hub?

As noted, if there's no freewheel, within a few minutes there will be no rear derailleur either. I
suppose that someone with the requisite machine tools and skills could create the world's most
nukeproof rear der to solve this particular problem, but I'm not sure I want to think about the cost
and/or weight.

If you want multiple speeds in a fixie, it's theoretically possible to get them using a multi-speed
gearhub, if you can find one or if you have the skill to modify a freewheel-equipped unit.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Byron Sheppard said:

I've been reading all the threads about fixed gear and am sold on the benefits. Can't wait to
try one.

But while thinking about it during a ride one day, I got to wondering if anyone has tried fixing
the freewheel (or freehub) but still having a cassette and multiple gears? This would seem to
provide many of the benefits of a fixed gear while still offering the flexibility to maintain
cadence through gear changes. It also means that it might be possible to convert a bike to
"fixedwheel" or "fixedhub" with no other drivetrain changes.

So why is this a silly idea? Has anyone tried it? Suggestions for how to fix the hub?

As another poster has pointed out, derailleurs can't work with fixies. Sturmey-Archer did make a
somewhat desirable 3-speed fixed-gear-compatible hub shifter.

If you couldn't find one of those, another option would be the Schlumpf two-speed "mountain drive"
BB, which might work with a fixed gear:

sheldonbrown.comschlumpf.htmlOpen ↗

Of course, you already know about all the options involving rear hubs threaded on both sides, so you
can go fixed/free, fixed/multiple-speed freewheel, or fixed/other-fixed by flipping over a wheel.

Ask Sheldon,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

KinkyCowboy said:

Quoted message said:

So why is this a silly idea? Has anyone tried it? Suggestions for how to fix the hub?

Sorry. It is a silly idea. Try to slow your legs down, once, and the chain will end up wrapped
around stuff, and badly jammed. The springs on the derailleur that keep the chain from going slack
will be stretched by any pedaling slower than your speed would dictate (much less trying to stop),
and the chain would go slack on the top, dangling down into the spokes.

Quoted message said:

Apart from snapping off the derailleur, simply locking down the freewheel doesn't get over the
problem of reverse chain tension unscrewing the freewheel from the hub.

That is the least of your worries.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is _`\(,_ | not that they are
extreme, but that they are intolerant. (_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

KinkyCowboy <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Byron Sheppard said:

I've been reading all the threads about fixed gear and am sold on the benefits. Can't wait to
try one.

<cut> Apart from snapping off the derailleur, simply locking down the freewheel doesn't get over
the problem of reverse chain tension unscrewing the freewheel from the hub. If you want a fixed
wheel without a new wheel, there's an expensive converter which puts fixed cog and lockring threads
on a shimano or compatible freehub, and a similar product is also available for threaded freewheel
hubs. If you really want a multispeed fixed, you need to invest in some rare and very expensive
retro parts from Campag or Sturmey-Archer.

You can simply add a screw on sprocket to a standard freewheel hub and ride. Lock ring not required,
but, of course, re-spacing/dishing is.

Having more than one sprocket is possible simply by screwing another on (never tried more than two),
using bottom bracket lockrings as a spacer, but prevents optimum chainline being used.

It is necessary to re-tension the chain on changin gear(by moving the wheel fore/aft in the
dropouts or).

As previous posters note, a derailleur is not an option.

Andrew Webster

Werehatrack said:

As noted, if there's no freewheel, within a few minutes there will be no rear derailleur either. I
suppose that someone with the requisite machine tools and skills could create the world's most
nukeproof rear der to solve this particular problem, but I'm not sure I want to think about the
cost and/or weight.

Didn't one of the earliest shifting systems involve reaching back and opening the QR, then using a
fork sort of thing to push the chain on to the next cog?

Wouldn't this work on a fixie? (My interest is purely theoretical, I have no desire to actually try
this, mind you.

-Dondo

--
What am I on? I'm on my bike, o__ 6 hours a day, busting my ass. ,>/'_ What are you on? --Lance
Armstrong (_)\(_)

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Werehatrack

BOn Sun said:

I've been reading all the threads about fixed gear and am sold on the benefits. Can't wait
to try one.

But while thinking about it during a ride one day, I got to wondering if anyone has tried fixing
the freewheel (or freehub) but still having a cassette and multiple gears? This would seem to
provide many of the benefits of a fixed gear while still offering the flexibility to maintain
cadence through gear changes. It also means that it might be possible to convert a bike to
"fixedwheel" or "fixedhub" with no other drivetrain changes.

So why is this a silly idea? Has anyone tried it? Suggestions for how to fix the hub?

As noted, if there's no freewheel, within a few minutes there will be no rear derailleur either. I
suppose that someone with the requisite machine tools and skills could create the world's most
nukeproof rear der to solve this particular problem, but I'm not sure I want to think about the cost
and/or weight.

If you want multiple speeds in a fixie, it's theoretically possible to get them using a multi-speed
gearhub, if you can find one or if you have the skill to modify a freewheel-equipped unit.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. [/B]

I remember someone once reporting an internal gear hub failing in this manner- had his gear selections, just no freewheeling.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by S. Anderson
"Byron Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So why is this a silly idea? Has anyone tried it? Suggestions for how to

fix

Quoted message said:

the hub?

If you stop pedalling, the derailleur winds up and breaks off the derailleur tab..not good.

Cheers,

Scott..

How about using a front triple der mount fore and below the sprockets in conjunction with a push-pull tensioner pair that takes the chain slack out of the non-tensile sprocket-chainring run?
Probably only gives you 3 speeds (9 if you have a front chainring triple;12 if you use a Schlumpf with double chainrings up front).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But while thinking about it during a ride one day, I got to wondering if anyone has tried fixing
the freewheel (or freehub) but still having a cassette and multiple gears?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So why is this a silly idea? Has anyone tried it? Suggestions for how to fix the hub?

thanks, byron

Apart from snapping off the derailleur, simply locking down the freewheel doesn't get over the
problem of reverse chain tension unscrewing the freewheel from the hub. If you want a fixed wheel
without a new wheel, there's an expensive converter which puts fixed cog and lockring threads on a
shimano or compatible freehub, and a similar product is also available for threaded freewheel
hubs. If you really want a multispeed fixed, you need to invest in some rare and very expensive
retro parts from Campag or Sturmey-Archer.

But why make life complex? Just rebuild your back wheel around a track hub and learn to
pedal fast!

Good and appreciated advice from everyone; thanks. I'll just build a single fixie and fly.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Captain Dondo said:

Werehatrack said:

As noted, if there's no freewheel, within a few minutes there will be no rear derailleur either.
I suppose that someone with the requisite machine tools and skills could create the world's most
nukeproof rear der to solve this particular problem, but I'm not sure I want to think about the
cost and/or weight.

Didn't one of the earliest shifting systems involve reaching back and opening the QR, then using a
fork sort of thing to push the chain on to the next cog?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't this work on a fixie? (My interest is purely theoretical, I have no desire to actually
try this, mind you.

Probably, but it would be diabolical. The reason you opened the QR was to let the wheel slide
forward and back to take up the chain slack. So you're suggesting releasing the QR, tapping the
lever to shift the chain, then re-engaging the QR, but oh yeah, since it's a fixie, you can't stop
pedalling.

You know, there's a reason the derailleur was invented,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Captain Dondo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

As noted, if there's no freewheel, within a few minutes there will be no rear derailleur either.
I suppose that someone with the requisite machine tools and skills could create the world's most
nukeproof rear der to solve this particular problem, but I'm not sure I want to think about the
cost and/or weight.

Didn't one of the earliest shifting systems involve reaching back and opening the QR, then using a
fork sort of thing to push the chain on to the next cog?

Wouldn't this work on a fixie? (My interest is purely theoretical, I have no desire to actually
try this, mind you.

-Dondo

(realizing that i've never rode one) i think that you got to coast briefly during an upshift to
allow the cogset & wheel to move backward to suck up the chain slack.

...and at the prices the Cambio Corsa command, probable never will.

Byron Sheppard said:

I've been reading all the threads about fixed gear and am sold on the benefits. Can't wait to
try one.

But while thinking about it during a ride one day, I got to wondering if anyone has tried fixing
the freewheel (or freehub) but still having a cassette and multiple gears? This would seem to
provide many of the benefits of a fixed gear while still offering the flexibility to maintain
cadence through gear changes. It also means that it might be possible to convert a bike to
"fixedwheel" or "fixedhub" with no other drivetrain changes.

So why is this a silly idea? Has anyone tried it? Suggestions for how to fix the hub?

See the earlier post about a binding freehub body. The chain bunches up when you try to coast. Some
riders who ditz around with tensioners, a fixed hub and vertical frame ends find this as well.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in message [regarding multi speed fixed gears]

Quoted message said:

another option would be the Schlumpf two-speed "mountain drive" BB, which might work with a
fixed gear:

sheldonbrown.comschlumpf.htmlOpen ↗

wow. what an idea. ive heard that there are still multi speed bottom bracket setups on the
market. up to five speeds, did i hear? would these work for fixed gear? are they made for
standard bb shells?

very curious, anthony

[email hidden] (ant) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

wow. what an idea. ive heard that there are still multi speed bottom bracket setups on the
market. up to five speeds, did i hear? would these work for fixed gear? are they made for
standard bb shells?

very curious, anthony

Oww... that's digging into the dusty recesses of memories best left undisturbed.

IIRC, there is/was a 5-speed crank-mounted planetary gear transmission. It is/was produced by
Shimano for the Japan-only market. I remember seeing pictures of it in Mountain Bike Action many,
many years ago.

Jeff

[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Why not just weld a freewheel together, add as many cogs as you wish and then stop to change the
gearing, must have LONG dropouts for chain tension tho-

Peter Chisholm

If you have two power links in the chain you can add/remove a few links easily enough, of course,
quick gear changes are out, but worth it for a long ascent.

Andrew Webster

[email hidden] (ant) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in message [regarding multi speed fixed gears]

Quoted message said:

another option would be the Schlumpf two-speed "mountain drive" BB, which might work with a
fixed gear:

sheldonbrown.comschlumpf.htmlOpen ↗

wow. what an idea. ive heard that there are still multi speed bottom bracket setups on the
market. up to five speeds, did i hear? would these work for fixed gear? are they made for
standard bb shells?

buried somewhere on the w-pg in the fine print it tells you it's not rated of FG used.

[email hidden] (ant) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in message [regarding multi speed fixed gears]

Quoted message said:

another option would be the Schlumpf two-speed "mountain drive" BB, which might work with a
fixed gear:

sheldonbrown.comschlumpf.htmlOpen ↗

wow. what an idea. ive heard that there are still multi speed bottom bracket setups on the
market. up to five speeds, did i hear? would these work for fixed gear? are they made for
standard bb shells?

very curious, anthony

see No 9: <schlumpf.chmd engl.htmOpen ↗

(Andrew Webster) said:

[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Why not just weld a freewheel together, add as many cogs as you wish and then stop to change the
gearing, must have LONG dropouts for chain tension tho-

Peter Chisholm

If you have two power links in the chain you can add/remove a few links easily enough, of course,
quick gear changes are out, but worth it for a long ascent.

Andrew Webster

Or use a double chainring and two sprockets (should be able to screw two track sprockets onto the
long thread of a 6/7 speed freewheel hub). 42x15 and 38x19 for example gives 76" and 54" gears with
no change of length, and you could probably arrange a perfect chainline on both combos with a bit of
shimming. You might even be able to change gear without loosening the rear wheel.

Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.