Cassette and lockring questions

"Patrick Lamb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Had a new experience on today's ride. Shifted into high gear, and I
started freewheeling. Not good, way out in the boondocks. So I
stopped and found the lock ring holding the cassette on had unscrewed,
and the last cog had fallen outwards and lost engagement with the rest
of the cassette and the freehub. After a bit of trouble, managed to
get the lock ring screwed on finger tight (no tool or torque wrench
available along the side of the road) and continued.

Shortly before arriving back home, I looked down and noticed the right
half of the cassette was wobbling while pedalling. When I got home, I
found that the lockring was off again, which I could understand
because it wasn't screwed on tight. But to my surprise, the cassette
fell apart when I took it off the hub; there were three long, skinny
bolts holding it together, and all three of them had come unscrewed.

I didn't know they could do that. Interesting how the cassette is put
together, with plastic spacers.

Well, everything is cleaned off and put back together, but I'm a bit
nervous about riding with it. The lock ring I can understand,
although it's been OK since last summer when I repacked the bearings.
But how did the cassette come apart? And should I have used Loctite
to put it back together? How often do I need to check the cassette,
or is this a once every 9 years kind of freak occurrence?

Pat

Email address works as is.

I had this happen once, but only once, never got loose again after
tightening.

Patrick Lamb said:

Well, everything is cleaned off and put back together, but I'm a bit
nervous about riding with it. The lock ring I can understand,
although it's been OK since last summer when I repacked the bearings.
But how did the cassette come apart? And should I have used Loctite
to put it back together? How often do I need to check the cassette,
or is this a once every 9 years kind of freak occurrence?

Pat

Those three little screws serve no useful purpose on your cassette.
They're there to keep most of the cogs together and aligned when the
cassettes are installed at the factory. I've used cassettes where I've
removed those bolts and there's no difference.

Make sure the lockring is on tight enough. I tighten mine (Shimano and
SRAM steel cassettes) with a 10" adjustable wrench (no Loctite). None
has ever come loose, and I've never stripped a thread. Park recommends
30 ft-lbs of torque- I probably go higher than that, but then I'm an
old school bike mechanic:
If At First You Don't Succeed, Get a Bigger Hammer.

Jeff

JeffWills said:

Patrick Lamb said:

Well, everything is cleaned off and put back together, but I'm a bit
nervous about riding with it. The lock ring I can understand,
although it's been OK since last summer when I repacked the bearings.
But how did the cassette come apart? And should I have used Loctite
to put it back together? How often do I need to check the cassette,
or is this a once every 9 years kind of freak occurrence?

Pat

Those three little screws serve no useful purpose on your cassette.
They're there to keep most of the cogs together and aligned when the
cassettes are installed at the factory. I've used cassettes where I've
removed those bolts and there's no difference.

I've read somewhere that the screws do serve a purpose on hubs with
aluminum freewheel bodies. By keeping all of the cogs together, they
prevent individual cogs from biting into the aluminum splines.

Quoted message said:

Make sure the lockring is on tight enough. I tighten mine (Shimano and
SRAM steel cassettes) with a 10" adjustable wrench (no Loctite). None
has ever come loose, and I've never stripped a thread. Park recommends
30 ft-lbs of torque- I probably go higher than that, but then I'm an
old school bike mechanic:
If At First You Don't Succeed, Get a Bigger Hammer.

Jeff

Patrick Lamb said:

Had a new experience on today's ride. Shifted into high gear, and I
started freewheeling. Not good, way out in the boondocks. So I
stopped and found the lock ring holding the cassette on had unscrewed,
and the last cog had fallen outwards and lost engagement with the rest
of the cassette and the freehub. After a bit of trouble, managed to
get the lock ring screwed on finger tight (no tool or torque wrench
available along the side of the road) and continued.

Shortly before arriving back home, I looked down and noticed the right
half of the cassette was wobbling while pedalling. When I got home, I
found that the lockring was off again, which I could understand
because it wasn't screwed on tight. But to my surprise, the cassette
fell apart when I took it off the hub; there were three long, skinny
bolts holding it together, and all three of them had come unscrewed.

I didn't know they could do that. Interesting how the cassette is put
together, with plastic spacers.

Well, everything is cleaned off and put back together, but I'm a bit
nervous about riding with it. The lock ring I can understand,
although it's been OK since last summer when I repacked the bearings.
But how did the cassette come apart? And should I have used Loctite
to put it back together? How often do I need to check the cassette,
or is this a once every 9 years kind of freak occurrence?

The screws holding the cassette together are not
necessary, they are mildly convenient for slipping
the unit onto the freehub. They probably vibrated
loose because your lockring's been gradually getting
loose for a while. Have your rear shifts been
imprecise lately?

If the lockring comes loose in the middle of nowhere
and you don't have a cassette tool, like most of us,
you can finger tighten it, and then tighten it further by
placing a screwdriver or other pointy object against
a spline and tapping it clockwise. This will get you
home; be attentive to noise or shifting problems that
indicate it's coming loose again.

Ben

Gary Young said:

JeffWills said:

On Apr 28, 6:42 pm, Patrick Lamb <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, everything is cleaned off and put back together, but I'm a bit
nervous about riding with it. The lock ring I can understand,
although it's been OK since last summer when I repacked the bearings.
But how did the cassette come apart? And should I have used Loctite
to put it back together? How often do I need to check the cassette,
or is this a once every 9 years kind of freak occurrence?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pat

Quoted message said:

Those three little screws serve no useful purpose on your cassette.
They're there to keep most of the cogs together and aligned when the
cassettes are installed at the factory. I've used cassettes where I've
removed those bolts and there's no difference.

I've read somewhere that the screws do serve a purpose on hubs with
aluminum freewheel bodies. By keeping all of the cogs together, they
prevent individual cogs from biting into the aluminum splines.

Quoted message said:

Make sure the lockring is on tight enough. I tighten mine (Shimano and
SRAM steel cassettes) with a 10" adjustable wrench (no Loctite). None
has ever come loose, and I've never stripped a thread. Park recommends
30 ft-lbs of torque- I probably go higher than that, but then I'm an
old school bike mechanic:
If At First You Don't Succeed, Get a Bigger Hammer.

Quoted message said:

Jeff

Nope, just there for the factory, ,to make it easier to install..TIGHT
lockring, with a bit of grasso on the outside of the freehub body and
grease the threads of the lockring..TIGHT-I think Campag's says 50nm...

The three 3mm screws/pins are _only_ for the convenience of the
assembler - throw them away with impunity.

Take a moment to wipe any accumulated grit from the cogs/spacers/body.
Lube the lockring and note the torque spec stamped on its face - this is
not a test of strength, 15~40 Nm is adequate.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Patrick Lamb said:

Had a new experience on today's ride. Shifted into high gear, and I
started freewheeling. Not good, way out in the boondocks. So I
stopped and found the lock ring holding the cassette on had unscrewed,
and the last cog had fallen outwards and lost engagement with the rest
of the cassette and the freehub. After a bit of trouble, managed to
get the lock ring screwed on finger tight (no tool or torque wrench
available along the side of the road) and continued.

Shortly before arriving back home, I looked down and noticed the right
half of the cassette was wobbling while pedalling. When I got home, I
found that the lockring was off again, which I could understand
because it wasn't screwed on tight. But to my surprise, the cassette
fell apart when I took it off the hub; there were three long, skinny
bolts holding it together, and all three of them had come unscrewed.

I didn't know they could do that. Interesting how the cassette is put
together, with plastic spacers.

Well, everything is cleaned off and put back together, but I'm a bit
nervous about riding with it. The lock ring I can understand,
although it's been OK since last summer when I repacked the bearings.
But how did the cassette come apart? And should I have used Loctite
to put it back together? How often do I need to check the cassette,
or is this a once every 9 years kind of freak occurrence?

JeffWills said:

Patrick Lamb said:

Well, everything is cleaned off and put back together, but I'm a bit
nervous about riding with it. The lock ring I can understand,
although it's been OK since last summer when I repacked the bearings.
But how did the cassette come apart? And should I have used Loctite
to put it back together? How often do I need to check the cassette,
or is this a once every 9 years kind of freak occurrence?

Those three little screws serve no useful purpose on your cassette.
They're there to keep most of the cogs together and aligned when the
cassettes are installed at the factory. I've used cassettes where I've
removed those bolts and there's no difference.

One more question I meant to ask was, is there any significance to all
of these coming loose at the same time?

Quoted message said:

Make sure the lockring is on tight enough. I tighten mine (Shimano and
SRAM steel cassettes) with a 10" adjustable wrench (no Loctite). None
has ever come loose, and I've never stripped a thread. Park recommends
30 ft-lbs of torque- I probably go higher than that, but then I'm an
old school bike mechanic:
If At First You Don't Succeed, Get a Bigger Hammer.

Ah, is that the school where you learn to tighten it until it strips,
then stop 1/4 turn earlier next time? 😉
(I like the 12" crescent wrench, probably because it's the biggest one
I've got.)

Pat

Email address works as is.

email hidden said:

Patrick Lamb said:

Had a new experience on today's ride. Shifted into high gear, and I
started freewheeling. Not good, way out in the boondocks. So I
stopped and found the lock ring holding the cassette on had unscrewed,
and the last cog had fallen outwards and lost engagement with the rest
of the cassette and the freehub. After a bit of trouble, managed to
get the lock ring screwed on finger tight (no tool or torque wrench
available along the side of the road) and continued.

Shortly before arriving back home, I looked down and noticed the right
half of the cassette was wobbling while pedalling. When I got home, I
found that the lockring was off again, which I could understand
because it wasn't screwed on tight. But to my surprise, the cassette
fell apart when I took it off the hub; there were three long, skinny
bolts holding it together, and all three of them had come unscrewed.

I didn't know they could do that. Interesting how the cassette is put
together, with plastic spacers.

Well, everything is cleaned off and put back together, but I'm a bit
nervous about riding with it. The lock ring I can understand,
although it's been OK since last summer when I repacked the bearings.
But how did the cassette come apart? And should I have used Loctite
to put it back together? How often do I need to check the cassette,
or is this a once every 9 years kind of freak occurrence?

The screws holding the cassette together are not
necessary, they are mildly convenient for slipping
the unit onto the freehub. They probably vibrated
loose because your lockring's been gradually getting
loose for a while. Have your rear shifts been
imprecise lately?

Shucks, you heard that? I thought I was cussing under my breath.

Quoted message said:

If the lockring comes loose in the middle of nowhere
and you don't have a cassette tool, like most of us,
you can finger tighten it, and then tighten it further by
placing a screwdriver or other pointy object against
a spline and tapping it clockwise. This will get you
home; be attentive to noise or shifting problems that
indicate it's coming loose again.

Thanks for the tip. Don't know if it would have helped, I was in the
middle of one of those political dreamers' industrial parks; nothing
bigger than some gravel to hit it with.

Pat

Email address works as is.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:20:15 -0500, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Take a moment to wipe any accumulated grit from the cogs/spacers/body.
Lube the lockring and note the torque spec stamped on its face - this is
not a test of strength, 15~40 Nm is adequate.

I did the cleaning, probably the cleanest non-new cassette I've had on
a bike when I got done. Lessee, 22 ft-lb is about a good hefty pull
on the end of a 12" wrench without yanking hard on it, right?

Pat

Email address works as is.