CTL doing the maths

Philsybob said:

HI there

I have an SRM and SRM software. I have managed to work out normalised power, IF, and TSS using the algorithms explained in the Training with Power book.

I am keen to also work out ATL, and CTL. Does anybody have these algorithms.

I don't really want to purchase Cyclinpeaks software - the easy way.

Cheers

well I'm seldom blunt but ... if you can afford an SRM, you can afford the best software.

By working out, IF, TSS and normalised power in Excel I now have a much better understanding of what the strengths and weaknesses of the approaches are.

Affordability is only one piece of the puzzle, understanding how the numbers are calculated is more important.

For example, I expect that CTL is calculated using TSS. TSS being a result of Intensity Factor, Normalised Power and FTP.

I would expect that a CTL built on 1 hour rides with a TSS of 100, would be quite different than a CTL built on 2 hour rides of with a TSS of 100.

Does anybody actually know?

Philsybob said:

I am keen to also work out ATL, and CTL. Does anybody have these algorithms.

What has been presented publicly has been presented here:
http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/performancemanagerscience.asp

Philsybob said:

By working out, IF, TSS and normalised power in Excel I now have a much better understanding of what the strengths and weaknesses of the approaches are.

Affordability is only one piece of the puzzle, understanding how the numbers are calculated is more important.

For example, I expect that CTL is calculated using TSS. TSS being a result of Intensity Factor, Normalised Power and FTP.

I would expect that a CTL built on 1 hour rides with a TSS of 100, would be quite different than a CTL built on 2 hour rides of with a TSS of 100.

Does anybody actually know?

Well...I'm sorry for being blunt too...but if you enjoy figuring stuff out, how about figuring out how to use the "search" function of this forum? I'm confident you'll discover plenty for your puzzlement.

I hope you don't think I'm being rude, but there's an old saying that goes "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime." 😉

Have I hit a nerve here?

Everybody seems to be blunt - and then prefaces it by saying that they are "sorry".

Hey, all I am trying to do is understand the numbers.

I had found the science behind the Perfomance manager which talks about

"Chronic training load, or CTL, provides a measure of how much an athlete has been training (taking into consideration both volume and intensity) historically, or chronically. It is calculated as an exponentially-weighted moving average of daily TSS (or TRIMP, etc.) values, with the default time constant set to 42 d.

Mr Coggan kindly gives me the algorithm for TSS in his book training with power, I was wondering if he had done the same here.

And your comment about searching the forum. Why not simply have 10 topics on here entitled "All the things you ever wanted to know about power", and don't bother having a forum. Then nobody would bother posting.

Hey I've been blunt, and I'm not sorry.

Philsybob said:

Have I hit a nerve here?

Everybody seems to be blunt - and then prefaces it by saying that they are "sorry".

Hey, all I am trying to do is understand the numbers.

I had found the science behind the Perfomance manager which talks about

"Chronic training load, or CTL, provides a measure of how much an athlete has been training (taking into consideration both volume and intensity) historically, or chronically. It is calculated as an exponentially-weighted moving average of daily TSS (or TRIMP, etc.) values, with the default time constant set to 42 d.

Mr Coggan kindly gives me the algorithm for TSS in his book training with power, I was wondering if he had done the same here.

And your comment about searching the forum. Why not simply have 10 topics on here entitled "All the things you ever wanted to know about power", and don't bother having a forum. Then nobody would bother posting.

Hey I've been blunt, and I'm not sorry.

Ummm...that IS the algorithm...an exponentially weighted moving average.

I'm not talking for rmur here, but I was the only one that expressed sorrow for my bluntness...but I've changed my mind 😄

about the sorrow or the bluntness 🙂

No problem.

Thanks for the search tip.

Philsybob said:

about the sorrow or the bluntness 🙂

Yes.

Philsybob said:

Thanks for the search tip.

Enjoy! 😉

Philsybob said:

And your comment about searching the forum. Why not simply have 10 topics on here entitled "All the things you ever wanted to know about power", and don't bother having a forum. Then nobody would bother posting.

Oh yeah...that's already been done. There's a bit more than 10 topics, though:

http://midweekclub.ca/powerFAQ.htm

It hasn't seemed to stop people from posting, however....go figure 🙂

Try this thread: http://www.cyclingforums.com/t357004.html

Philsybob said:

Mr Coggan kindly gives me the algorithm for TSS in his book training with power, I was wondering if he had done the same here.

Not that I recall, because at the time this ideas were being discussed in detail the folks at PeaksWare LLC (their new name) were still interested in playing to close-to-the-vest. Now version 2.1 of WKO+ containing the Performance Manager chart has been released and, well, there hasn't been much need to discuss such details.

Anyway, as stated in the article, CTL is an exponentially-weighted moving average of your daily TSS, calculated using a 42 d time constant (as the default...this is user adjustable). There are different ways of writing the formula for such an average, so allow me to just suggest doing a web search and pick the one that makes sense to you (exponentially-weighted moving averages are frequently used to, e.g., track stocks, so you'll find tons of references).

Thanks for your help.

I will.

Cheers