Headset keeps coming loose

graham said:

I have just refurbished my 1980's Peugeot which I use as a training bike. It
has always been a very comfortable and reliable ride. Part of the
refurbishment was to fit a new Stronglight headset. The bike has Mafac
centre pull brakes so I have the brake cable guide sandwiched between the
screw down part of the top bearing and the locknut. I have set the headset
up with the right bearing pre load using the screw down and then tightened
the lock nut whilst holding the screw down but after a 100 miles or so the
whole thing is loose again as evidenced when applying the front brake. Any
ideas on how to get it to remain tight.

Use two wrenches to turn the locknut and cup against each other. Get
them tight - it helps to hold the wrenches nearly parallel to each
other. When you're done, lift the front of the bike a few inches and
smack it back to the floor a few times. Check the adjustment again,
readjust if necessary. It should stay tight after that.

-Vee

graham said:

I have just refurbished my 1980's Peugeot which I use as a training bike. It
has always been a very comfortable and reliable ride. Part of the
refurbishment was to fit a new Stronglight headset. The bike has Mafac
centre pull brakes so I have the brake cable guide sandwiched between the
screw down part of the top bearing and the locknut.

That's OK, there's usually a washer there anyway.

Quoted message said:

I have set the headset
up with the right bearing pre load using the screw down and then tightened
the lock nut whilst holding the screw down but after a 100 miles or so the
whole thing is loose again as evidenced when applying the front brake. Any
ideas on how to get it to remain tight.

You have to screw the locknut and adjusting nut against one other--
sometimes it even helps to hold the locknut still and turn the adjusting
nut up anti-clockwise against it.

Tight, but not too tight or you might strip the threads. I did that
once, fortunately only the ones on the replaceable locknut not on the
steerer tube.

graham said:

I have just refurbished my 1980's Peugeot which I use as a training bike. It
has always been a very comfortable and reliable ride. Part of the
refurbishment was to fit a new Stronglight headset. The bike has Mafac
centre pull brakes so I have the brake cable guide sandwiched between the
screw down part of the top bearing and the locknut. I have set the headset
up with the right bearing pre load using the screw down and then tightened
the lock nut whilst holding the screw down but after a 100 miles or so the
whole thing is loose again as evidenced when applying the front brake. Any
ideas on how to get it to remain tight.

I'm assuming you have one of the newer Stronglight headsets that use a
conventional locknut system. This can be problematic with the centre-pull
hanger, as braking cable pull may be enough to lever apart the race and
locknut, allowing them to loosen. The original headset probably had a
serrated surface on the top of the race which mated with a serrated keyed
washer; a much better system.

If indeed you have the headset I described, wish to keep it, and want to
keep it tight, you have two choices:

a) some better method of locking the headset; such as a thread-locking
compound, a clamping locknut, or just making the hanger surfaces flat and
parallel and making the locknut REALLY tight; or

b) remove the cable hanger and hang the cable from the stem - some stems
are made with this provision, and others can be drilled and threaded. The
alarmist jim beam will probably tell you that this is a disaster waiting to
happen (cf. the broken brake bolt myth) but if you have the right kind of
stem it should not be a problem.

"_" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Snip

Quoted message said:

I'm assuming you have one of the newer Stronglight headsets that use a
conventional locknut system. This can be problematic with the centre-pull
hanger, as braking cable pull may be enough to lever apart the race and
locknut, allowing them to loosen. The original headset probably had a
serrated surface on the top of the race which mated with a serrated keyed
washer; a much better system.

Snip

Thanks for that advice. I have just checked the old headset and you are
right it did have serrated components. I had not imagined the braking cable
tension could have created the loosening effect. I will now see if I can
utilise some of the old bits to find a solution. My only problem is that I
run out of adequate steerer thread for the lock nut.

replace the crown bushing at fork bottom? if not, the old crown is
ellipsoid, forcing the perpendicular mechanism to wobble, forcing nuts
aparts.

brake cable pull doesn't exceed nut pressures.

try cleaning all threads and using blue loctite (cold) on the locknut,
pipe above locating nut and red lock on the nut/washer mating
surfaces.

check all edges for burrs, file off.

the required pressure to mate the mechanism with the lower or locating
nut is a toosup: its difficult getting a bearing on it but cautiously
go to bearing rumble then back offtill the bearing rumble is very very
slight. check for wobble.

then use visegrips and a 12" channelock or two vicegrips if room
enough. i filed the nut to fit a parks wrench but still the parks is
not heavy enough to unsure an accurate tension. squeeze those nuts.
the red lock provides more mating surface for all misaligned part
surfaces-not ground flat-like the probable surface on your cable guide
stop billet.

i go to 'stiff' for fork turning force and 'stiff' is just beyond very
slight bearing rumble at Latitude: 28 23 18 N.

'stiff' is not 'stiff' once the wheel goes on.

explanations of the process are very very subjective.

wait: the bottom nut, the locating nut needs be held tight off course
to maintain the 'stiff' fork turn torque response. The procedure
requires determination or good arm strength.
to work within the locktite setup time, you may practice tightening
the locator nut to 'stiff fork' then again readjust after blue
locktiting the locater nut and allow setup time as overnight/24 hrs in
a warm area you're ahead but not out of the underbrush. If the locator
nut is strained under pressure from the locknut, without your holding
the locater still or slightly to the left ( fork will follow) with a
good grip from a good wrench, the locater will come loose from locknut
pressure and screw up the adjustment-more wobble.

a good use for the red lock at 'wheel building nipple locktite' if
heating to loosen is avoidable or the assembly employs easily moved
seals damageable thru heat. I'm nut sure how many threads are lockable
with 'spoke freeze' before heat is necessary. ask the wheel builder.

In article <[email hidden]>,

_ said:

I'm assuming you have one of the newer Stronglight headsets that use a
conventional locknut system. This can be problematic with the centre-pull
hanger, as braking cable pull may be enough to lever apart the race and
locknut, allowing them to loosen. The original headset probably had a
serrated surface on the top of the race which mated with a serrated keyed
washer; a much better system.

I have one. 40 teeth on the threaded and knurled upper ball race,
41 teeth on the keyed lock-down ring. It is a vernier system that
allows for all but continuous adjustment. One 15 inch adjustable
wrench to torque down, lightly!, the hold fast nut onto the lock
ring. Beautiful bit of engineering. The original chrome plate
remains very good.

--
Michael Press

yes! but out the parts wear. parts made under the whip at .50/hr and
nooooo
CNC. no insatiable demand for quality steel or coffee from asia. only
way togo is dissemble before wear out, shelve (under linseed off
course)

Quoted post said:

yes! but out the parts wear. parts made under the whip at .50/hr and
nooooo
CNC. no insatiable demand for quality steel or coffee from asia. only
way togo is dissemble before wear out, shelve (under linseed off
course)

The solution: preserve those worn but collectible parts in vessels
filled with linseed oil and sealed with DT's designer Loctite (only
the best will do!). Bury in the backyard until the 22nd century, have
the great-great-greats auction 'em off on ePay. Partytime!

Quoted message said:

The solution: preserve those worn but collectible parts in vessels
filled with linseed oil and sealed with DT's designer Loctite (only
the best will do!). Bury in the backyard until the 22nd century, have
the great-great-greats auction 'em off on ePay. Partytime!

wearing irreplaceable CR's down to the nub unuseable ever again is
painful LBS dude: handcrafted .50/hr master craftsman asian slave
labor: spherical allen screws, filigreed chain guards. saved for a
better day. once more! like a new liver.

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

The solution: preserve those worn but collectible parts in vessels
filled with linseed oil and sealed with DT's designer Loctite (only
the best will do!). Bury in the backyard until the 22nd century, have
the great-great-greats auction 'em off on ePay. Partytime!

wearing irreplaceable CR's down to the nub unuseable ever again is
painful LBS dude: handcrafted .50/hr master craftsman asian slave
labor: spherical allen screws, filigreed chain guards. saved for a
better day. once more! like a new liver.

Liver? Perhaps, upon your passing, you would like your entrails
removed and preserved, like a Pharaoh? Genenaten I ? Or is that just
another pyramid scheme?

its ethereal!

http://www.pbase.com/lefturn99/glidden_tour

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/inventors/indexr.shtml

HYDRATE FOR GLOBAL WARMING

http://www.pbase.com/lefturn99/image/67199339

graham said:

I have just refurbished my 1980's Peugeot which I use as a training bike. It
has always been a very comfortable and reliable ride. Part of the
refurbishment was to fit a new Stronglight headset. The bike has Mafac
centre pull brakes so I have the brake cable guide sandwiched between the
screw down part of the top bearing and the locknut. I have set the headset
up with the right bearing pre load using the screw down and then tightened
the lock nut whilst holding the screw down but after a 100 miles or so the
whole thing is loose again as evidenced when applying the front brake. Any
ideas on how to get it to remain tight.

On a p.3 or v.4 headset the locking collar should keep it from loosening
if the locknut is even passably tight. On a Delta or an A9 adjust and
lock like any other headset.

Most 80s Peugeots are BSC, not metric. You have the correct headset,
right? Are you sure there's no fork thread damage? Does your cable
hanger fit the slot or the flat of the fork nicely? Does the setup you
have allow a full thread engagement of the locknut? Or conversely does
the locknut bottom out on the thread? Was the hanger bashed aside when
your fork swung to one side?

Or are you just generally inexperienced with threaded headsets (nothing
wrong with that)? A visit to a helpful and competent LBS if there's one
in your area may be instructive. There isn't one scenario that covers
all 'chronic loose headset' problems
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

graham said:

I have just refurbished my 1980's Peugeot which I use as a training bike.
It
has always been a very comfortable and reliable ride. Part of the
refurbishment was to fit a new Stronglight headset. The bike has Mafac
centre pull brakes so I have the brake cable guide sandwiched between the
screw down part of the top bearing and the locknut. I have set the
headset
up with the right bearing pre load using the screw down and then
tightened
the lock nut whilst holding the screw down but after a 100 miles or so
the
whole thing is loose again as evidenced when applying the front brake.
Any
ideas on how to get it to remain tight.

On a p.3 or v.4 headset the locking collar should keep it from loosening
if the locknut is even passably tight. On a Delta or an A9 adjust and lock
like any other headset.

Most 80s Peugeots are BSC, not metric. You have the correct headset,
right? Are you sure there's no fork thread damage? Does your cable hanger
fit the slot or the flat of the fork nicely? Does the setup you have allow
a full thread engagement of the locknut? Or conversely does the locknut
bottom out on the thread? Was the hanger bashed aside when your fork swung
to one side?

Or are you just generally inexperienced with threaded headsets (nothing
wrong with that)? A visit to a helpful and competent LBS if there's one in
your area may be instructive. There isn't one scenario that covers all
'chronic loose headset' problems
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Thanks Andrew. I think I have solved the problem. After a 50 yesterday
morning all is still tight. The problem was I think a lack of sufficient
thread engagement of the lock nut. On my last attempt at tightening the
system the threads in the lock nut stripped! Following that I took the whole
assembly apart and confirmed that the lock nut was only engaging on about
half its threads. Also the cable hanger was not flat across its diameter. So
I flattened the cable hanger and machined the top of the bearing nut down by
about a mm or so removing the thread lead in. This gave me I'd guess at
least another two threads of engagement on the lock nut. I then used the
steel lock nut from the old headset, tightened things as normal and so far
so good!

Graham.

There are actually 2 types of coming loose that can occur :

(a) Front end jiggles when applying brake, but locknut is still tight.
In this case, your headset cups or lower cone were probably not fully
pressed in and have now 'settled'. Try loosening the locknuts and
retightening them to spec, and then check again in 100 mi.

(b) headset locknut is loose. You need to carefully back off the
locknut and upper cup against one another to get them firmly locked.
Then, you must recheck the tightness using the brake to make sure they
are correct. This requires the same degree of cleverness that
manufaturers claim had been obviated by the invention of the cartridge
bottom bracket.

Since a mechanic still needs to know this skill to install a
_headset_, i frankly don't understand where the labor is saved in
using a cartridge bottom bracket.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

yeah. its a mechanics work: 3-4 nuts, 2-3 seals. two bearing sets and
a bushing. clean threads, pipe, paint, turn crown race to size,
install, grease, bearings, plage frame on stem, grease bearings,
nut,snug down to firm turn at wheeless fork, loctite, locknut! and
there she is!!!

AW SHHHEET I FORGOT THE BRAKE CABLE STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND THE BOTTOM SEAL.^%&^%$$%$!!#@

(Donald Gillies) said:

There are actually 2 types of coming loose that can occur :

(a) Front end jiggles when applying brake, but locknut is still tight.
In this case, your headset cups or lower cone were probably not fully
pressed in and have now 'settled'. Try loosening the locknuts and
retightening them to spec, and then check again in 100 mi.

(b) headset locknut is loose. You need to carefully back off the
locknut and upper cup against one another to get them firmly locked.
Then, you must recheck the tightness using the brake to make sure they
are correct. This requires the same degree of cleverness that
manufaturers claim had been obviated by the invention of the cartridge
bottom bracket.

Since a mechanic still needs to know this skill to install a
_headset_, i frankly don't understand where the labor is saved in
using a cartridge bottom bracket.

Everything about cartridge BBs is easier. Fewer tools required, no
offset spindle nonsense, less need for cleanliness, no way to
improperly install anything, no need for adjustment... what's not to
love? And it's harder to adjust ol' fashioned BBs than headsets: you
have to reach way down get at it, buy 2-3 tools that may not be
compatible with your other bikes, the cranks are in the way, it's
tough to tell if the BB is too tight unless you remove the chain, and
you're never going to learn all the spindle offset codes... what's not
to hate?

-Vee

?

Quoted message said:

-Vee-

your our leg is getting pulled: it's epidemic