Cycling Equipment · Public discussion

Meeting Floyd

Started by Mark Hickey · · Last activity · 279 posts · 12,689 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Cycling Equipment
Published
15 April 2007
Last activity
27 April 2007
Original author
Mark Hickey
Posts
279
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
12,689
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 279
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Last night was a blast.

    Floyd Landis is in the process of touring the country raising money
    and support in his effort to fight the doping charges that have
    (termporarily...) stripped him of his '06 Tour de France yellow
    jersey. Last night, he came to the Phoenix east valley, and I
    attended the presentation.

    The venue was a fairly small one - only 60-70 people attending, which
    I can only attribute to lack of publicity. I spent a several hours
    last night sitting about 10 feet (3m) from Floyd and his doctor
    (Arnie Baker) and his PR guy Michael Henson.

    The presentation has changed a bit from what is on Floyd's "Fairness
    Fund" website, and according to Dr. Baker (a very confidence-inspiring
    speaker, BTW), they're only presenting "about 10%" of the problems
    with the testing that was done, since they've already seen the French
    lab trying to cover their tracks by releasing updated "original"
    documents that "fix" some of the glaring errors in the "original
    originals".

    Without going into a litany of details, there are SO many questions
    raised by Dr. Baker's examination of the evidence that I have no doubt
    at all that Floyd will prevail when the hearing occurs in mid-May.
    Essentially, there are clearly-documented problems with chain of
    custody, testing blindness, protocol, equipment malfunction, sample
    contamination beyond testable standards, standards definition, not to
    mention the common sense aspect of the fact that Floyd tested negative
    two days prior and two days after (and tested WELL under the limits
    for testosterone even after stage 17). Dr. Baker explained the
    science of testosterone, and how clinical studies have shown that
    there is no measureable performance gain even with 10x the allowed
    testosterone level present on that day's effort (that is, it's not a
    "one day drug"😉. There's simply no reason anyone would WANT to play
    around with epitestosterone on a given stage... nothing to be gained.

    Floyd's presentation was alternatively informative, spontaneous, and
    humourous. He spent a good bit of the evening "talking racing" and
    the personal glimpse into the politics of the peleton was fascinating.
    He (and Dr. Baker) pointed out that although Floyd's stage 17
    performance was a very, very good one, the real reason he gained so
    much time was the infighting among teams in the peleton (each waiting
    for the other teams to do the heavy lifting). As amazing as it was,
    he really wasn't doing anything superhuman, but clearly something
    unexpectedly audacious. His superior descending skills didn't hurt
    either.

    For those of you in Dallas, Austin or Atlanta - he's coming your way
    soon - I suggest you do NOT miss the event. It's the best $35 I've
    spent in a long, long time (though I also broke down and bought a $25
    Floyd Fairness Fund T-shirt, which he autographed for me). There were
    other fund-raising efforts, including auctioning off a replica yellow
    jersey autographed by Floyd (which went for $3,300, so don't figure
    it's a cheap way to cover a stain on your wall). ;-) Floyd spent
    about half an hour signing autographs and was happy to pose for photos
    with anyone who wanted one (making forgetting my camera a very dumb
    thing to do).

    I'd recommend that anyone who's genuinely concerned with the fairness
    of the current drug testing processes should read the powerpoint
    presentation that Dr. Baker put together - it's a fairly big download,
    but fascinating reading (even without the good doctor's running
    commentary on the details). It can be found at:

    http://www.floydfairnessfund.org/resources/Wiki%20Denfense%20Slide.pdf

    There's also a webcast on Floyd's site that I haven't previewed, but
    suspect it contains the same information I saw last night.

    My prediction is that the WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) and the
    French lab that was involved will have to admit that there are FAR too
    many problems with the handling of the samples, the testing of the
    samples, and the results of the testing for the results to stand. I
    appreciate the work Floyd is doing to take on these powerful
    organizations (that are, BTW, doing everything in their power to keep
    the details from leaking out - funny since they seem to relish the
    opporutnity to leak details about certain riders' test results, even
    before the UCI officials hear about it). Dr. Baker has also compiled
    a number of documents that show the same lab was making errors on
    other (non-cycling) athletes at the same time that Floyd's sample was
    being tested (where the lab admits getting samples crossed or causing
    contamination that resulted in a false positives).

    Please support this effort - I think after you read the presentation
    you'll begin to understand what a travesty this whole thing has been.
    I look forward to the day when Floyd's name appears without an asterix
    in the record books.

    Go get 'em Floyd!

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

  2. Mark Hickey said:

    Last night was a blast.

    Floyd Landis is in the process of touring the country raising money
    and support in his effort to fight the doping charges that have
    (termporarily...) stripped him of his '06 Tour de France yellow
    jersey. Last night, he came to the Phoenix east valley, and I
    attended the presentation.

    The venue was a fairly small one - only 60-70 people attending, which
    I can only attribute to lack of publicity. I spent a several hours
    last night sitting about 10 feet (3m) from Floyd and his doctor
    (Arnie Baker) and his PR guy Michael Henson.

    The presentation has changed a bit from what is on Floyd's "Fairness
    Fund" website, and according to Dr. Baker (a very confidence-inspiring
    speaker, BTW), they're only presenting "about 10%" of the problems
    with the testing that was done, since they've already seen the French
    lab trying to cover their tracks by releasing updated "original"
    documents that "fix" some of the glaring errors in the "original
    originals".

    Without going into a litany of details, there are SO many questions
    raised by Dr. Baker's examination of the evidence that I have no doubt
    at all that Floyd will prevail when the hearing occurs in mid-May.
    Essentially, there are clearly-documented problems with chain of
    custody, testing blindness, protocol, equipment malfunction, sample
    contamination beyond testable standards, standards definition, not to
    mention the common sense aspect of the fact that Floyd tested negative
    two days prior and two days after (and tested WELL under the limits
    for testosterone even after stage 17). Dr. Baker explained the
    science of testosterone, and how clinical studies have shown that
    there is no measureable performance gain even with 10x the allowed
    testosterone level present on that day's effort (that is, it's not a
    "one day drug"😉. There's simply no reason anyone would WANT to play
    around with epitestosterone on a given stage... nothing to be gained.

    Floyd's presentation was alternatively informative, spontaneous, and
    humourous. He spent a good bit of the evening "talking racing" and
    the personal glimpse into the politics of the peleton was fascinating.
    He (and Dr. Baker) pointed out that although Floyd's stage 17
    performance was a very, very good one, the real reason he gained so
    much time was the infighting among teams in the peleton (each waiting
    for the other teams to do the heavy lifting). As amazing as it was,
    he really wasn't doing anything superhuman, but clearly something
    unexpectedly audacious. His superior descending skills didn't hurt
    either.

    For those of you in Dallas, Austin or Atlanta - he's coming your way
    soon - I suggest you do NOT miss the event. It's the best $35 I've
    spent in a long, long time (though I also broke down and bought a $25
    Floyd Fairness Fund T-shirt, which he autographed for me). There were
    other fund-raising efforts, including auctioning off a replica yellow
    jersey autographed by Floyd (which went for $3,300, so don't figure
    it's a cheap way to cover a stain on your wall). ;-) Floyd spent
    about half an hour signing autographs and was happy to pose for photos
    with anyone who wanted one (making forgetting my camera a very dumb
    thing to do).

    I'd recommend that anyone who's genuinely concerned with the fairness
    of the current drug testing processes should read the powerpoint
    presentation that Dr. Baker put together - it's a fairly big download,
    but fascinating reading (even without the good doctor's running
    commentary on the details). It can be found at:

    http://www.floydfairnessfund.org/resources/Wiki%20Denfense%20Slide.pdf

    There's also a webcast on Floyd's site that I haven't previewed, but
    suspect it contains the same information I saw last night.

    My prediction is that the WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) and the
    French lab that was involved will have to admit that there are FAR too
    many problems with the handling of the samples, the testing of the
    samples, and the results of the testing for the results to stand. I
    appreciate the work Floyd is doing to take on these powerful
    organizations (that are, BTW, doing everything in their power to keep
    the details from leaking out - funny since they seem to relish the
    opporutnity to leak details about certain riders' test results, even
    before the UCI officials hear about it). Dr. Baker has also compiled
    a number of documents that show the same lab was making errors on
    other (non-cycling) athletes at the same time that Floyd's sample was
    being tested (where the lab admits getting samples crossed or causing
    contamination that resulted in a false positives).

    Please support this effort - I think after you read the presentation
    you'll begin to understand what a travesty this whole thing has been.
    I look forward to the day when Floyd's name appears without an asterix
    in the record books.

    Go get 'em Floyd!

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame


    I'm not a racer and never have been. Only recently (since 2000) have I
    followed the TdF closely and mainly due to Lance Armstrong. But my sense
    of Landis' stage 17 win was the lack of drive in the peleton. Looking at
    the video that was on the web afterwards I could see the problem.
    Pereiro was imploring the other teams to chase down Landis but who would
    they have been doing the chasing for? Pereiro. There was no one on the
    other teams that would have benefited. They had already lost based on
    their lack of fight in the prior stages.

    In fact if you look at Pereiro you'd see that the only reason he was in
    contention was a stage when he beat the peleton by something like 32
    minutes. A time so extreme that it should have been the basis for most
    of the riders to have been dropped from the Tour. That stage, like 17
    was poorly raced. The strategy was terrible. The 2006 Tour was a mess of
    horrible tactics with no one really showing much desire to go for the win.

    Maybe because all the favorites were wiped out by the Spanish drug
    article no one was left with any sense of being the potential winner. It
    was certainly a strange Tour. Only stage 17 showed a rider willing to
    give all for the yellow and that rider was Landis.

    My gut sense was that the TdF people had grown tired of Americans
    winning their home sport on their home turf and something had to end
    that streak. But my gut sense also said that if I had been in Landis'
    position as soon as the news was revealed that I had supposedly doped up
    I'd have been screaming "FIX!!!" at the top of my lungs (meager as they
    are) to everyone involved. That wasn't what Landis did. Instead he
    seemed to be looking for a plausible basis for the erroneous test
    results. For some reason the riders avoid questioning the veracity and
    honor of the organizations involved, which is probably a measure of the
    power those organizations have over them.

    After stage 17 my sense was that the T-Mobile team should have pressed
    stage 18 from the get-go, forcing Landis to use all his energy and not
    recover from the stage 17 effort. That would be the only way to make
    stage 17 cost in the time trial where their rider could benefit.
    Instead, stage 18 was raced as a rest stage and the time trial secured
    Landis' win.

    Oh, I did see an Eddie Merckx win in Montreal in 1974. It was a test of
    the proposed Olympic circuit. A meaningless one day race - but no race
    was meaningless to Merckx.

  3. Mark Hickey said:

    My prediction is that the WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) and the
    French lab that was involved will have to admit that there are FAR too
    many problems with the handling of the samples, the testing of the
    samples, and the results of the testing for the results to stand.

    I hope you are right, but I woudn't be surprised if evidence has
    little to do with it.

  4. Mark Hickey said:

    Last night was a blast.

    Floyd Landis is in the process of touring the country raising money
    and support in his effort to fight the doping charges that have
    (termporarily...) stripped him of his '06 Tour de France yellow
    jersey. Last night, he came to the Phoenix east valley, and I
    attended the presentation.

    The venue was a fairly small one - only 60-70 people attending, which
    I can only attribute to lack of publicity. I spent a several hours
    last night sitting about 10 feet (3m) from Floyd and his doctor
    (Arnie Baker) and his PR guy Michael Henson.

    The presentation has changed a bit from what is on Floyd's "Fairness
    Fund" website, and according to Dr. Baker (a very confidence-inspiring
    speaker, BTW), they're only presenting "about 10%" of the problems
    with the testing that was done, since they've already seen the French
    lab trying to cover their tracks by releasing updated "original"
    documents that "fix" some of the glaring errors in the "original
    originals".

    Without going into a litany of details, there are SO many questions
    raised by Dr. Baker's examination of the evidence that I have no doubt
    at all that Floyd will prevail when the hearing occurs in mid-May.
    Essentially, there are clearly-documented problems with chain of
    custody, testing blindness, protocol, equipment malfunction, sample
    contamination beyond testable standards, standards definition, not to
    mention the common sense aspect of the fact that Floyd tested negative
    two days prior and two days after (and tested WELL under the limits
    for testosterone even after stage 17). Dr. Baker explained the
    science of testosterone, and how clinical studies have shown that
    there is no measureable performance gain even with 10x the allowed
    testosterone level present on that day's effort (that is, it's not a
    "one day drug"😉. There's simply no reason anyone would WANT to play
    around with epitestosterone on a given stage... nothing to be gained.

    Floyd's presentation was alternatively informative, spontaneous, and
    humourous. He spent a good bit of the evening "talking racing" and
    the personal glimpse into the politics of the peleton was fascinating.
    He (and Dr. Baker) pointed out that although Floyd's stage 17
    performance was a very, very good one, the real reason he gained so
    much time was the infighting among teams in the peleton (each waiting
    for the other teams to do the heavy lifting). As amazing as it was,
    he really wasn't doing anything superhuman, but clearly something
    unexpectedly audacious. His superior descending skills didn't hurt
    either.

    For those of you in Dallas, Austin or Atlanta - he's coming your way
    soon - I suggest you do NOT miss the event. It's the best $35 I've
    spent in a long, long time (though I also broke down and bought a $25
    Floyd Fairness Fund T-shirt, which he autographed for me). There were
    other fund-raising efforts, including auctioning off a replica yellow
    jersey autographed by Floyd (which went for $3,300, so don't figure
    it's a cheap way to cover a stain on your wall). ;-) Floyd spent
    about half an hour signing autographs and was happy to pose for photos
    with anyone who wanted one (making forgetting my camera a very dumb
    thing to do).

    I'd recommend that anyone who's genuinely concerned with the fairness
    of the current drug testing processes should read the powerpoint
    presentation that Dr. Baker put together - it's a fairly big download,
    but fascinating reading (even without the good doctor's running
    commentary on the details). It can be found at:

    http://www.floydfairnessfund.org/resources/Wiki%20Denfense%20Slide.pdf

    There's also a webcast on Floyd's site that I haven't previewed, but
    suspect it contains the same information I saw last night.

    My prediction is that the WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) and the
    French lab that was involved will have to admit that there are FAR too
    many problems with the handling of the samples, the testing of the
    samples, and the results of the testing for the results to stand. I
    appreciate the work Floyd is doing to take on these powerful
    organizations (that are, BTW, doing everything in their power to keep
    the details from leaking out - funny since they seem to relish the
    opporutnity to leak details about certain riders' test results, even
    before the UCI officials hear about it). Dr. Baker has also compiled
    a number of documents that show the same lab was making errors on
    other (non-cycling) athletes at the same time that Floyd's sample was
    being tested (where the lab admits getting samples crossed or causing
    contamination that resulted in a false positives).

    Please support this effort - I think after you read the presentation
    you'll begin to understand what a travesty this whole thing has been.
    I look forward to the day when Floyd's name appears without an asterix
    in the record books.

    Go get 'em Floyd!

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

    doubtless very worthy and all that, but is this tech? lately we're
    getting french trains, ebay, tax software and bizarre chinese shoe
    manufacturer spam. can we get back on topic please?

  5. Quoted message said:

    doubtless very worthy and all that, but is this tech? lately we're
    getting french trains, ebay, tax software and bizarre chinese shoe
    manufacturer spam. can we get back on topic please?

    Questioning drug testing lab techniques & results isn't "tech?"

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  6. jim beam wrote:
    {snip Mark's account re. Subject line}

    Quoted message said:

    doubtless very worthy and all that, but is this tech? lately we're
    getting french trains, ebay, tax software and bizarre chinese shoe
    manufacturer spam. can we get back on topic please?

    Whaddya, new?

  7. Mike Jacoubowsky said:
    Quoted message said:

    doubtless very worthy and all that, but is this tech? lately we're
    getting french trains, ebay, tax software and bizarre chinese shoe
    manufacturer spam. can we get back on topic please?

    Questioning drug testing lab techniques & results isn't "tech?"

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    no, it's "racing" or "misc". or even "soc".

  8. It's hard for me not to be cynical about Floyd and doping or about any
    other pro cyclist and doping for that matter. I think that doping is
    endemic in pro cycling and all other pro sports.

    That said, I also believe in innocence until guilt is proven, which
    requires due process and that, it seems, has not been respected not only
    in Floyd's case but the cases of other cyclists as well. [censored] Pound
    seems only too happy to presume guilt and to do so loudly and publicly,
    and he discredits WADA and the anti-doping effort practically every time
    he opens his yap.

    It'll be interesting to see the outcome of the hearings next month, if
    they happen.

  9. jim beam said:
    Mike Jacoubowsky said:
    Quoted message said:

    doubtless very worthy and all that, but is this tech? lately we're
    getting french trains, ebay, tax software and bizarre chinese shoe
    manufacturer spam. can we get back on topic please?

    Questioning drug testing lab techniques & results isn't "tech?"

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    no, it's "racing" or "misc". or even "soc".

    I thought he was kidding until this reply. Sigh....

    As Lance said, it's not (all...) about the bike.

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

  10. Mark Hickey said:
    jim beam said:
    Mike Jacoubowsky said:

    > doubtless very worthy and all that, but is this tech? lately we're
    > getting french trains, ebay, tax software and bizarre chinese shoe
    > manufacturer spam. can we get back on topic please?
    Questioning drug testing lab techniques & results isn't "tech?"

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    no, it's "racing" or "misc". or even "soc".

    I thought he was kidding until this reply. Sigh....

    As Lance said, it's not (all...) about the bike.

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

    you're singing the song to raise money. very praiseworthy - if you
    believe. but it's not "tech"!

  11. jim beam said:
    Mark Hickey said:

    jim beam <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >> doubtless very worthy and all that, but is this tech? lately we're
    >> getting french trains, ebay, tax software and bizarre chinese shoe
    >> manufacturer spam. can we get back on topic please?
    > Questioning drug testing lab techniques & results isn't "tech?"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    no, it's "racing" or "misc". or even "soc".

    Quoted message said:

    I thought he was kidding until this reply. Sigh....

    Quoted message said:

    As Lance said, it's not (all...) about the bike.

    Quoted message said:

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

    you're singing the song to raise money. very praiseworthy - if you
    believe. but it's not "tech"!

    I saw it as him bringing to our attention (among other things) the
    technical aspects of the grounds for an argument for a false positive,
    not as a shill for money.

    Joseph

  12. what's the story on Landis' hip? does he ride and how...?

  13. Quoted post said:
    jim beam said:
    Mark Hickey said:

    jim beam <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >>> doubtless very worthy and all that, but is this tech? lately we're
    >>> getting french trains, ebay, tax software and bizarre chinese shoe
    >>> manufacturer spam. can we get back on topic please?
    >> Questioning drug testing lab techniques & results isn't "tech?"

    Quoted message said:

    >> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    Quoted message said:

    > no, it's "racing" or "misc". or even "soc".

    Quoted message said:

    I thought he was kidding until this reply. Sigh....

    Quoted message said:

    As Lance said, it's not (all...) about the bike.

    you're singing the song to raise money. very praiseworthy - if you
    believe. but it's not "tech"!

    I saw it as him bringing to our attention (among other things) the
    technical aspects of the grounds for an argument for a false positive,
    not as a shill for money.

    It was PURE "tech", IMHO - and a "tech" that has more impact on our
    sport than spoke tension discussions (for example). It also involves
    the physiology of the motor, which is by FAR the biggest technical
    performance factor in cycling (makes even red frames pale in
    comparison).

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

  14. Quoted post said:

    what's the story on Landis' hip? does he ride and how...?

    He got a different kind of hip - one where most of the original hip
    bone is left intact, and a "cap" is installed on top of the bone,
    along with a matching "cup" in the hip socket. Apparently only a
    couple cm of bone is removed, and the prognosis for long-term use is
    much, much better than a traditional hip replacement.

    Floyd said he's pain-free, and is riding well (he and Dr. Baker rode
    and won the Tour de Tucson in their class, on a tandem reacently... so
    he's obvioulsy riding pretty well). He's also been riding MTBs again
    - something he couldn't chance with his "dead hip", because of the
    fact a crash could have debilitated him for a loooong time.

    He said that he's only training about 20% (IIRC?) as much as he would
    be at this point in a "normal year", but felt that he could regain his
    full fitness in a few months.

    If Floyd was feeling any discomfort from his hip, it wasn't at all
    obvious.

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

  15. Mark Hickey said:
    Quoted post said:
    jim beam said:

    Mark Hickey wrote:
    > jim beam <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >>>> doubtless very worthy and all that, but is this tech? lately we're
    >>>> getting french trains, ebay, tax software and bizarre chinese shoe
    >>>> manufacturer spam. can we get back on topic please?
    >>> Questioning drug testing lab techniques & results isn't "tech?"
    >>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >> no, it's "racing" or "misc". or even "soc".
    > I thought he was kidding until this reply. Sigh....
    > As Lance said, it's not (all...) about the bike.
    you're singing the song to raise money. very praiseworthy - if you
    believe. but it's not "tech"!


    I saw it as him bringing to our attention (among other things) the
    technical aspects of the grounds for an argument for a false positive,
    not as a shill for money.

    It was PURE "tech", IMHO - and a "tech" that has more impact on our
    sport than spoke tension discussions (for example). It also involves
    the physiology of the motor, which is by FAR the biggest technical
    performance factor in cycling (makes even red frames pale in
    comparison).

    that applies to /any/ athletic endeavor - it's not specific to cycling,
    hence no bike tech. go discuss on rec.bicycles.racing if you must.

  16. Mark Hickey said:

    Last night was a blast.

    Floyd Landis is in the process of touring the country raising money
    and support in his effort to fight the doping charges that have
    (termporarily...) stripped him of his '06 Tour de France yellow
    jersey. Last night, he came to the Phoenix east valley, and I
    attended the presentation.

    The venue was a fairly small one - only 60-70 people attending, which
    I can only attribute to lack of publicity. I spent a several hours
    last night sitting about 10 feet (3m) from Floyd and his doctor
    (Arnie Baker) and his PR guy Michael Henson.

    The presentation has changed a bit from what is on Floyd's "Fairness
    Fund" website, and according to Dr. Baker (a very confidence-inspiring
    speaker, BTW), they're only presenting "about 10%" of the problems
    with the testing that was done, since they've already seen the French
    lab trying to cover their tracks by releasing updated "original"
    documents that "fix" some of the glaring errors in the "original
    originals".

    Without going into a litany of details, there are SO many questions
    raised by Dr. Baker's examination of the evidence that I have no doubt
    at all that Floyd will prevail when the hearing occurs in mid-May.
    Essentially, there are clearly-documented problems with chain of
    custody, testing blindness, protocol, equipment malfunction, sample
    contamination beyond testable standards, standards definition, not to
    mention the common sense aspect of the fact that Floyd tested negative
    two days prior and two days after (and tested WELL under the limits
    for testosterone even after stage 17). Dr. Baker explained the
    science of testosterone, and how clinical studies have shown that
    there is no measureable performance gain even with 10x the allowed
    testosterone level present on that day's effort (that is, it's not a
    "one day drug"😉. There's simply no reason anyone would WANT to play
    around with epitestosterone on a given stage... nothing to be gained.

    Floyd's presentation was alternatively informative, spontaneous, and
    humourous. He spent a good bit of the evening "talking racing" and
    the personal glimpse into the politics of the peleton was fascinating.
    He (and Dr. Baker) pointed out that although Floyd's stage 17
    performance was a very, very good one, the real reason he gained so
    much time was the infighting among teams in the peleton (each waiting
    for the other teams to do the heavy lifting). As amazing as it was,
    he really wasn't doing anything superhuman, but clearly something
    unexpectedly audacious. His superior descending skills didn't hurt
    either.

    For those of you in Dallas, Austin or Atlanta - he's coming your way
    soon - I suggest you do NOT miss the event. It's the best $35 I've
    spent in a long, long time (though I also broke down and bought a $25
    Floyd Fairness Fund T-shirt, which he autographed for me). There were
    other fund-raising efforts, including auctioning off a replica yellow
    jersey autographed by Floyd (which went for $3,300, so don't figure
    it's a cheap way to cover a stain on your wall). ;-) Floyd spent
    about half an hour signing autographs and was happy to pose for photos
    with anyone who wanted one (making forgetting my camera a very dumb
    thing to do).

    I'd recommend that anyone who's genuinely concerned with the fairness
    of the current drug testing processes should read the powerpoint
    presentation that Dr. Baker put together - it's a fairly big download,
    but fascinating reading (even without the good doctor's running
    commentary on the details). It can be found at:

    http://www.floydfairnessfund.org/resources/Wiki%20Denfense%20Slide.pdf

    There's also a webcast on Floyd's site that I haven't previewed, but
    suspect it contains the same information I saw last night.

    My prediction is that the WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) and the
    French lab that was involved will have to admit that there are FAR too
    many problems with the handling of the samples, the testing of the
    samples, and the results of the testing for the results to stand. I
    appreciate the work Floyd is doing to take on these powerful
    organizations (that are, BTW, doing everything in their power to keep
    the details from leaking out - funny since they seem to relish the
    opporutnity to leak details about certain riders' test results, even
    before the UCI officials hear about it). Dr. Baker has also compiled
    a number of documents that show the same lab was making errors on
    other (non-cycling) athletes at the same time that Floyd's sample was
    being tested (where the lab admits getting samples crossed or causing
    contamination that resulted in a false positives).

    Please support this effort - I think after you read the presentation
    you'll begin to understand what a travesty this whole thing has been.
    I look forward to the day when Floyd's name appears without an asterix
    in the record books.

    Go get 'em Floyd!

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycleshttp://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

    I help develop accreditation systems for diagnostic laboratories. The
    systems are based on the need for precision - without it, the lab
    creates legal liability problems for itself with questionable results,
    and its results are of little value as evidence in a court. One of the
    key areas for procedural specification is reporting and information
    flows. If a laboratory is unable to adhere to specification in one key
    area, their operations in other areas can often be torn to shreds. The
    leakage of results alone makes me extremely skeptical about the Landis
    results. Everything else about the case is circumstantial.

    Donga

  17. once upon, we went on down the road to east jesus to a lecture by the
    electric guitar pygmy: he was outstanding (but short) and well
    remembered.
    highly recommended.

  18. On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:07:56 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    It was PURE "tech", IMHO - and a "tech" that has more impact on our
    sport than spoke tension discussions (for example). It also involves
    the physiology of the motor, which is by FAR the biggest technical
    performance factor in cycling (makes even red frames pale in
    comparison).

    Sure, Mark, pure tech. In Floyd's case: the technical aspects of a
    motor running on banned fuel. As plain as frickin day, whether you
    want to admit it or not.

    But crickey, Beam, you've been around long enough to know that usenet
    is like a knife fight: "No rules."

    Whining about irrelevance is worse than irrelevance.

  19. "Doug Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:07:56 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    It was PURE "tech", IMHO - and a "tech" that has more impact on our
    sport than spoke tension discussions (for example). It also involves
    the physiology of the motor, which is by FAR the biggest technical
    performance factor in cycling (makes even red frames pale in
    comparison).

    Sure, Mark, pure tech. In Floyd's case: the technical aspects of a
    motor running on banned fuel. As plain as frickin day, whether you
    want to admit it or not.

    And you've come to that conclusion how?

    Greg
    --
    Ticketbastard tax tracker:
    http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html

    Dethink to survive - Mclusky

  20. G.T. said:

    "Doug Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:07:56 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    It was PURE "tech", IMHO - and a "tech" that has more impact on our
    sport than spoke tension discussions (for example). It also involves
    the physiology of the motor, which is by FAR the biggest technical
    performance factor in cycling (makes even red frames pale in
    comparison).

    Sure, Mark, pure tech. In Floyd's case: the technical aspects of a
    motor running on banned fuel. As plain as frickin day, whether you
    want to admit it or not.

    And you've come to that conclusion how?

    I'd guess by studiously avoiding any facts about the case other than
    10 second sound bites on CNN. Anyone who can read (and has any
    interest in learning the actual details) can't look at the information
    and conclude that it's not a virtual certainty that Floyd's sample
    shouldn't have tested positive.

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.