Employing cyclists

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 19:25:04 +1000

permajeo said:

I had a new post to fill so spent last week interviewing. Is there
anyone that doesn't lie on their CV?

Insist on an online CV in an obvious place (e.g. /~homepage/cv.html,
not something likely to be doctored for your benefit which could be
sent or at a URL like cv-513413.html). And check its last-modified
date and google's archive. That'll get something the candidate is
happy to display to the world, including people who know him/her.

And of course, google for info about them.

Quoted message said:

They were both good for the job. Guess who got it?

Candidate X.

--
not me guv

"I'm able-bodied. Why should I want a car?"

permajeo said:

Candidate A
How many days holiday do I get?

Candidate B
I'm a cyclist
Do you have showers / bike racks / lockers / flexible working.
I see, from what you sent me, you offer loans for rail fares. Does this
extend to cycle loans under (whatever that Gov't scheme is called now).

They were both good for the job. Guess who got it?

Candidate A.
Candidate B turned it down 'cos you couldn't answer his questions 😉

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel

permajeo said:

Candidate A
How many days holiday do I get?

Candidate B
I'm a cyclist
Do you have showers / bike racks / lockers / flexible working.
I see, from what you sent me, you offer loans for rail fares. Does this
extend to cycle loans under (whatever that Gov't scheme is called now).

They were both good for the job. Guess who got it?

The one with the largest breasts?

Jim.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as permajeo
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

I had a new post to fill so spent last week interviewing. Is there
anyone that doesn't lie on their CV?

Having gone through the HR rigmarole (sp?) of selection criteria,
preferred and expected responces, personal presentation, technical
knowledge etc. I asked, near the end of the interview, whether the
candidate had "any questions for the panel or a statement to make".

Candidate A
How many days holiday do I get?

Candidate B
I'm a cyclist
Do you have showers / bike racks / lockers / flexible working.
I see, from what you sent me, you offer loans for rail fares. Does this
extend to cycle loans under (whatever that Gov't scheme is called now).

They were both good for the job. Guess who got it?

Candidate A. From a corporate POV, far less likely to be a nuisance or
demand "unreasonable" facilities for his/her "minority pursuit". Unless
the entire interview panel were all cycle-friendly of course.

Candidate B's questions may seem reasonable to cyclists, but if I were
applying for a job I'd keep all such questions till after I'd had a firm
offer, or even started work. I'd expect a cyclist to already have a
bike or three, so the loans thing is "want" not "need". And unless one
lives a long way from work (or work is at the top of a big hill)
showers, etc, aren't actually necessary for cycling to work.

Plus say "I'm a cyclist" to many people and they'll immediately assume
you really mean "I'm a red-light jumping lycra-clad ASBO-on-wheels",
even if you're really a white haired old lady riding a Pashley. Sad,
but true.

NP: Pink Floyd - High Hopes.
--
- DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

Nick Kew said:

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 19:25:04 +1000

permajeo said:

I had a new post to fill so spent last week interviewing. Is there
anyone that doesn't lie on their CV?

Insist on an online CV in an obvious place (e.g. /~homepage/cv.html,
not something likely to be doctored for your benefit which could be
sent or at a URL like cv-513413.html).

It's perfectly reasonable to tailor a CV specifically for a particular
job application. This, of itself, doesn't imply any attempt to
deceive.

I had nearly 200 applications for this job. I'm not trawling through that many online CVs. When most are ful ov speling misteaks and bad granma.

Anyway why should I?

Nick Kew said:

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 19:25:04 +1000

permajeo said:

I had a new post to fill so spent last week interviewing. Is there
anyone that doesn't lie on their CV?

Insist on an online CV in an obvious place (e.g. /~homepage/cv.html,
not something likely to be doctored for your benefit which could be
sent or at a URL like cv-513413.html). And check its last-modified
date and google's archive. That'll get something the candidate is
happy to display to the world, including people who know him/her.

And of course, google for info about them.

Quoted message said:

They were both good for the job. Guess who got it?

Candidate X.

--
not me guv

"I'm able-bodied. Why should I want a car?"

I'd expect a tailored CV as it shows some interest and fore thought, but a few of the interviewees didn't seem to know where or when they worked nor what exactly they did.

quote='Paul Rudin'Nick Kew said:

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 19:25:04 +1000

permajeo said:

I had a new post to fill so spent last week interviewing. Is there
anyone that doesn't lie on their CV?

Insist on an online CV in an obvious place (e.g. /~homepage/cv.html,
not something likely to be doctored for your benefit which could be
sent or at a URL like cv-513413.html).

It's perfectly reasonable to tailor a CV specifically for a particular
job application. This, of itself, doesn't imply any attempt to
deceive.[/QUOTE]

Actually B

Answers being yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. We also pay mileage if you use your bike for work related travel (no, not to and from) and include travel expenses if they are incurred while taking your bike on a train.

quote='mb'On Sun said:

Candidate A
How many days holiday do I get?

Candidate B
I'm a cyclist
Do you have showers / bike racks / lockers / flexible working.
I see, from what you sent me, you offer loans for rail fares. Does this
extend to cycle loans under (whatever that Gov't scheme is called now).

They were both good for the job. Guess who got it?

Candidate A.
Candidate B turned it down 'cos you couldn't answer his questions 😉

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel[/QUOTE]

Candidate A. From a corporate POV, far less likely to be a nuisance or
demand "unreasonable" facilities for his/her "minority pursuit". Unless
the entire interview panel were all cycle-friendly of course.

Not from our corporate view and the panel was me and two tame project directors.

Candidate B's questions may seem reasonable to cyclists, but if I were
applying for a job I'd keep all such questions till after I'd had a firm
offer, or even started work. I'd expect a cyclist to already have a
bike or three, so the loans thing is "want" not "need". And unless one
lives a long way from work (or work is at the top of a big hill)
showers, etc, aren't actually necessary for cycling to work.

Well I guess waiting for the offer is a fair point and so is the "need v want". But as the employer, the question of extending the loan to bikes tests your commitment and thoughts on green/health etc levels.

You're right showers aren't essential but they do show care for your staff.

Plus say "I'm a cyclist" to many people and they'll immediately assume
you really mean "I'm a red-light jumping lycra-clad ASBO-on-wheels",
even if you're really a white haired old lady riding a Pashley. Sad,
but true.

Possibly but not with me.

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 18:57:58 +0100

Paul Rudin said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I had a new post to fill so spent last week interviewing. Is there
anyone that doesn't lie on their CV?

Insist on an online CV in an obvious place (e.g. /~homepage/cv.html,
not something likely to be doctored for your benefit which could be
sent or at a URL like cv-513413.html).

It's perfectly reasonable to tailor a CV specifically for a particular
job application. This, of itself, doesn't imply any attempt to
deceive.

Doesn't imply, but is consistent with. And that's in the context of
a recruiter who's just complaining of being sent dishonest CVs.
I'm speaking of the converse: a best possible indication of honesty.

Of course, the application letter will be tailored to a particular job,
and will draw attention to the most directly relevant points in the
honest CV.

--
not me guv

"I'm able-bodied. Why should I want a car?"

permajeo wrote on 10/04/2007 09:49 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Candidate A. From a corporate POV, far less likely to be a nuisance or
demand "unreasonable" facilities for his/her "minority pursuit". Unless
the entire interview panel were all cycle-friendly of course.

Not from our corporate view and the panel was me and two tame project
directors.

Candidate B is also likely to have better health and therefore take less
time off sick/going to the doctors and, having cycled in is likely to
start the day off more awake and alert so be more productive from the
get go. You also don't have to find a parking space for his car.

Its funny but I am having a parallel discussion on a list el swear where
a couple of people are really convinced they can't cycle because other
people would think less of them if they turned up to a meeting on a
bike. All it seems to me is they are so un-confident in their ability
to contribute usefully to the meeting that they think all people have to
judge them by is their dress and transport. If I were interviewing I
would go 100% on their ability to do the job and how they got to work
would be irrelevant.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Candidate B is also likely to have better health and therefore take less
time off sick/going to the doctors and, having cycled in is likely to
start the day off more awake and alert so be more productive from the
get go. You also don't have to find a parking space for his car.

Agree with the first bit. Well the parking thing is a no brainer. We're in South Kensington, London and anyone who can afford to park there five days a week wouldn't work for the salary I'm offering!

Its funny but I am having a parallel discussion on a list el swear where
a couple of people are really convinced they can't cycle because other
people would think less of them if they turned up to a meeting on a
bike. All it seems to me is they are so un-confident in their ability
to contribute usefully to the meeting that they think all people have to
judge them by is their dress and transport. If I were interviewing I
would go 100% on their ability to do the job and how they got to work
would be irrelevant.

Two Candidates were both able to do the job so I had to make a choice. Candidate B was selected on ability and "fit with the team". It is sad about the dress/transport thing but then I have known many who get by on good suits and no ability.

Not sure if it's interesting but I asked the HR rep "what happens if more than one candidate fits all my essential and desirable criteria?"

Answer "Uuummmm.... Well go with the one you think is the best"

Tony Raven said:

Its funny but I am having a parallel discussion on a list el swear where
a couple of people are really convinced they can't cycle because other
people would think less of them if they turned up to a meeting on a
bike. All it seems to me is they are so un-confident in their ability
to contribute usefully to the meeting that they think all people have to
judge them by is their dress and transport. If I were interviewing I
would go 100% on their ability to do the job and how they got to work
would be irrelevant.

But Tony, you are a scientist so think rationally about these things.
If you do not have a rational benchmark then you are left with
appearances.

I seem to get kudos for turning up on a bike, partly because I am not
trying to 'dress to impress'. It shows a degree of independence that
is often greeted with jealous phrases. Furthest I cycled to a meeting
was 90 miles. OK, it was to a multi day conference. And my mileage was
paid.

...d

permajeo said:

Candidate A. From a corporate POV, far less likely to be a nuisance or
demand "unreasonable" facilities for his/her "minority pursuit". Unless
the entire interview panel were all cycle-friendly of course.

Not from our corporate view and the panel was me and two tame project
directors.

Candidate B's questions may seem reasonable to cyclists, but if I were
applying for a job I'd keep all such questions till after I'd had a
firm
offer, or even started work. I'd expect a cyclist to already have a
bike or three, so the loans thing is "want" not "need". And unless one
lives a long way from work (or work is at the top of a big hill)
showers, etc, aren't actually necessary for cycling to work.

Well I guess waiting for the offer is a fair point and so is the "need
v want". But as the employer, the question of extending the loan to
bikes tests your commitment and thoughts on green/health etc levels.

You're right showers aren't essential but they do show care for your
staff.

Plus say "I'm a cyclist" to many people and they'll immediately assume
you really mean "I'm a red-light jumping lycra-clad ASBO-on-wheels",
even if you're really a white haired old lady riding a Pashley. Sad,
but true.

Possibly but not with me.

That entire post was a mess, with no clue as to who said what.
You're sacked.

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel

It didn't look like that when I previewed it, 'onest guv.

I have now sacked myself and have been replaced by somebody more capable. My wife.

Who has employed me to make the tea as she's so busy with her new job.

quote='mb'On Tue said:

Candidate A. From a corporate POV, far less likely to be a nuisance or
demand "unreasonable" facilities for his/her "minority pursuit". Unless
the entire interview panel were all cycle-friendly of course.

Not from our corporate view and the panel was me and two tame project
directors.

Candidate B's questions may seem reasonable to cyclists, but if I were
applying for a job I'd keep all such questions till after I'd had a
firm
offer, or even started work. I'd expect a cyclist to already have a
bike or three, so the loans thing is "want" not "need". And unless one
lives a long way from work (or work is at the top of a big hill)
showers, etc, aren't actually necessary for cycling to work.

Well I guess waiting for the offer is a fair point and so is the "need
v want". But as the employer, the question of extending the loan to
bikes tests your commitment and thoughts on green/health etc levels.

You're right showers aren't essential but they do show care for your
staff.

Plus say "I'm a cyclist" to many people and they'll immediately assume
you really mean "I'm a red-light jumping lycra-clad ASBO-on-wheels",
even if you're really a white haired old lady riding a Pashley. Sad,
but true.

Possibly but not with me.

That entire post was a mess, with no clue as to who said what.
You're sacked.

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel[/QUOTE]

On 09/04/2007 18:57, Paul Rudin said,

Quoted message said:

It's perfectly reasonable to tailor a CV specifically for a particular
job application. This, of itself, doesn't imply any attempt to
deceive.

You also have to watch CVs that have come from recruitment agencies.
Some of them are so "tailored" that the applicant wouldn't recognise it!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Nick Kew said:

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 19:25:04 +1000

permajeo said:

I had a new post to fill so spent last week interviewing. Is there
anyone that doesn't lie on their CV?

I believe so. They are just hard to find 🙂 . In particular check
the education! A lot of people seem to give themselves a BA or MBA .

More seriously I have helped people write CV's and in some cases
people will leave out highly relevant information because they forgot
that they had done something or didn't think if was relevant. My
classic was the person who though that she might like an internal move
to finance but all her work experience was in Human Relations. When I
asked her a few questions it came out that she had been on the board
of directors of a $50 million credit union and chair for 2 years but
she wasn't going to put it down since it was not work but a volunteer
activity.

Quoted message said:

Insist on an online CV in an obvious place (e.g. /~homepage/cv.html,
not something likely to be doctored for your benefit which could be
sent or at a URL like cv-513413.html). And check its last-modified
date and google's archive. That'll get something the candidate is
happy to display to the world, including people who know him/her.

And of course, google for info about them.

I consider it normal or even a requirement to rewrite a résumé for
each new job or consulting contract. This may be a bit different from
the longer CV's that I have seen from Europe but here one tries to
submit a 3 page or less document. One picks and chooses what seems to
most relevant for the job. Only in academia does one usually see the
15-30 page CV any more.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

In news:[email hidden],
Paul Boyd <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

You also have to watch CVs that have come from recruitment agencies.
Some of them are so "tailored" that the applicant wouldn't recognise
it!

Too right. When I was Brutally Slain[1] by the Evil Squirrels a few years
ago, I asked the HR Droids if they had a copy of my CV, as mine had been
eaten by Babbage-Engine breakdown. The variety of things I was alleged to
have done was truly staggering, and I found myself vaguely disappointed that
it didn't say I could speak Xhosa or that I was the rightful King of France
:-(

1 - and then miraculously resurrected three months later

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Trees, once grown in large numbers, make perfect forests.