downhill safety question

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whilst riding down a hill today, I came up behind a dithering grey
haired Sunday motorist, so I decided to overtake him. Unfortunately,
as I started to go round him, he decided to accelerate and I soon
found my cadence was not sufficiently fast to aid gravity in my
downward progress. I was in no-mans-land in the middle of the road,
straddling the white lines.

Fortunately, when an oncoming caravan appeared around the bend, the
car I was overtaking decided to let me pass, and the dodgy moment was
over.

My question is, would you generally consider it dangerous to overtake
a car on an open road, due to their superior powers of acceleration,
or was I just unlucky to come across an idiot today?

The opportunity to pass cars is quite rare for me, so I would be
interested to hear what is considered to be the best approach to deal
with these obstacles.

It's dangerous but he was in the wrong - I think they should have let you
overtake safely then overtaken you later. I think there's something in the
highway code about slowing down to let an overtaking vehicle pass. It
happens quite frequently when a car tries to overtake another dawdling car
so it's not just because you're a cyclist (although I imagine it is a bit of
an insult to them!).

If you're in that situation again I'd recommend braking and falling in
behind the car - I think that's safest albeit not as fun.
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
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naked_draughtsman said:

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The opportunity to pass cars is quite rare for me, so I would be
interested to hear what is considered to be the best approach to deal
with these obstacles.

It's dangerous but he was in the wrong - I think they should have let you
overtake safely then overtaken you later. I think there's something in the
highway code about slowing down to let an overtaking vehicle pass.

Aye: "144: Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you,
maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let
the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up
or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous.
Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls
into the gap in front of you."

Quoted message said:

If you're in that situation again I'd recommend braking and falling in
behind the car - I think that's safest albeit not as fun.

It seems that whenever I'm passing a parked car, that it decides to move
off again when I'm halfway past.

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whilst riding down a hill today, I came up behind a dithering grey
haired Sunday motorist, so I decided to overtake him. Unfortunately,
as I started to go round him, he decided to accelerate and I soon
found my cadence was not sufficiently fast to aid gravity in my
downward progress. I was in no-mans-land in the middle of the road,
straddling the white lines.

Fortunately, when an oncoming caravan appeared around the bend, the
car I was overtaking decided to let me pass, and the dodgy moment was
over.

Find it happens when driving where I have Air horns, a brake and an
accelerator to deal with the situation.

Especially when mr BMW hogging the middle lane of the A74(M) at 60
discoveres a 23 year old Saab battering along at 70 in the correct lane,
pulling over to the outside to get round.

I've not yet got in a position where overtaking a car while cycling has been
a possibility.

Niall

Quoted message said:

The opportunity to pass cars is quite rare for me, so I would be
interested to hear what is considered to be the best approach to deal
with these obstacles.

Draft them, but for wossname's sake cover the brakes.

It's common for me to overtake cars, but if I'm in a sprint I can't keep
the speed up long enough for it to be worthwhile. I usually zip into work
at somewhere between 20 and 24mph, so it's rare to overtake a car.

When I do overtake I have to be careful because the car driver isnt
expecting it, and the speed differential is normally quite low. I can't
accelerate out of danger either (already flat out), which limits options
should something unexpected happen. I'm also nervous of them doing a right
turn as I'm alongside (there's usually a reason why they're going so slow).

If you can get past and it's safe to do so then no probs, but the usual
course of action is to slot in behind them and position youself in the
traffic stream (i.e. centre of lane/primary position). This stops cars
coming alongside and crowding you out. As they speed up again I move back
into the secondary position.

On 9 Apr, 00:03, Mark Thompson opined "Draft them, but for wossname's
sake cover the brakes."

My other recent conflict with cars (I don't get many as I am living
remotely) was whilst riding to the nearest (Tesco) town. A long
gradual descent, aided by a tailwind, helped me to keep ahead of a
tractor for some time. Eventually, it tried to overtake me but didn't
have the puff. I let it past (as per earlier posters) but then tucked
in behind to be rewarded with an easy 23(ish) mph for some time.

A tailback of cars ensued. After some time, I let the tractor go, and
cars started to fill the gap. However, the tractor then began to slow,
relative to me, and I started to re-overtake the cars. The tractor
subsequently pulled in to a lay-by and the traffic accelerated, me
returning to my humble position >= 60cm from the kerb. One of the cars
that subsequently overtook me honked noisily, swerved at me and
gesticulated in an unpleasant way.

I can only assume that by slipstreaming the tractor the car driver
thought I was making passing both my bike and the tractor difficult,
and thereby decided to drive at me. Was I wrong to slipstream the
tractor? If so, what law might I have compromised?

Cheers
Ray

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can only assume that by slipstreaming the tractor the car driver
thought I was making passing both my bike and the tractor difficult,
and thereby decided to drive at me. Was I wrong to slipstream the
tractor? If so, what law might I have compromised?

Don't lose sleep over the issue. You will encounter numpties behind the
wheel who have no notion of the contents of the Highway Code and their
rights and responsibilities on the road. Just be very careful when
slipstreaming vehicles - they can stop faster than you can.

Quoted message said:

Don't lose sleep over the issue. You will encounter numpties behind the
wheel who have no notion of the contents of the Highway Code

Most drivers or cyclists don't.

We occasionally get idiots in this country (Ireland) arguing with us
that it's against the law to cycle 2 abreast.
a. It's not.
b. The old version of the Highway code here said "Cyclists are
recommended to not cycle 2 abreast in built-up areas"
c. The latest version says ..."in heavy traffic".

It's a recommendation. As far as I know, in the UK it's not illegal to
cycle 3 abreast and it's probably not here.

raisethe wrote on 09/04/2007 02:28 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I can only assume that by slipstreaming the tractor the car driver
thought I was making passing both my bike and the tractor difficult,
and thereby decided to drive at me. Was I wrong to slipstream the
tractor? If so, what law might I have compromised?

No but you broke the rule that says some drivers have bought the roads
with their VED and other road users should get out of their way while
tugging their forelocks to acknowledge of their subservience. But you
can ignore such numpties apart from the endangerment they present. Let
it be their problem not yours.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can only assume that by slipstreaming the tractor the car driver
thought I was making passing both my bike and the tractor difficult,
and thereby decided to drive at me....

If I was planning on overtaking a tractor in a car I would tend to hang a
fair way back so that I had a clear view of when there is no traffic coming
the other way, so if a cyclist is slipstreaming the tractor then they would
not have much effect on how easy it was to overtake the tractor. A lot of
motorists (such as the one who honked perhaps) will prefer to sit right up
the tractors [censored] whilst waiting to overtake so they have a very poor view
of the road ahead.

cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk

raisethe said:

I can only assume that by slipstreaming the tractor the car driver
thought I was making passing both my bike and the tractor
difficult, and thereby decided to drive at me. Was I wrong to
slipstream the tractor? If so, what law might I have compromised?

It's impossible to say exactly what got him upset. It may just be the
fact that you overtook him. Drivers do occasionally freak out if you
overtake them simply because you are upsetting the natural order of
things in their universe. I remember one guy getting terribly upset
when I passed him on the N. Circular Road. He was only doing 35 mph on
a downhill section and I overtook him very properly in the centre
lane.

He was still hooting when he repassed me later on the flat. We then
got into a hare and tortoise situation because of heavy traffic and he
continued to honk his horn and wave his hands about every time one of
us repassed the other. I gave him a nice smile and a friendly nod each
time of course. This only seemed to increase his agitation. I can't
think why.

--
Dave...

in message <[email hidden]>,

raisethe (') said:

Whilst riding down a hill today, I came up behind a dithering grey
haired Sunday motorist, so I decided to overtake him. Unfortunately,
as I started to go round him, he decided to accelerate and I soon
found my cadence was not sufficiently fast to aid gravity in my
downward progress. I was in no-mans-land in the middle of the road,
straddling the white lines.

Fortunately, when an oncoming caravan appeared around the bend, the
car I was overtaking decided to let me pass, and the dodgy moment was
over.

My question is, would you generally consider it dangerous to overtake
a car on an open road, due to their superior powers of acceleration,
or was I just unlucky to come across an idiot today?

It's dangerous if the road ahead isn't clear, and it's dangerous if you
aren't prepared to abort. It's certainly dangerous if your brakes aren't
good enough to let you abort, but that's a reason to get your brakes seen
to!

But of course there's occasions when you can overtake cars, especially on
twisty descents. I've been away with a stage race all weekend, and there
have been several occasions over the weekend when the commissaires cars -
and even the escort motorcycles - couldn't stay with the peloton on the
descents. Descending from the Kirkstone Pass in the lake district, I've
overtaken an E-Type Jaguar that didn't want to be passed.

However, as in any other situation, it is the overtaking vehicle's duty to
keep clear. The person you're overtaking should not have to slow down or
move over to let you in. If you can't get past safely and quickly, you
should abort, brake hard, and get back in behind him.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

Simon Brooke said:

However, as in any other situation, it is the overtaking vehicle's duty to
keep clear. The person you're overtaking should not have to slow down or
move over to let you in.

OTOH he definitely should not accelerate while being overtaken.

--
Dave...

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whilst riding down a hill today, I came up behind a dithering grey
haired Sunday motorist, so I decided to overtake him. Unfortunately,
as I started to go round him, he decided to accelerate and I soon
found my cadence was not sufficiently fast to aid gravity in my
downward progress. I was in no-mans-land in the middle of the road,
straddling the white lines.

Fortunately, when an oncoming caravan appeared around the bend, the
car I was overtaking decided to let me pass, and the dodgy moment was
over.

My question is, would you generally consider it dangerous to overtake
a car on an open road, due to their superior powers of acceleration,
or was I just unlucky to come across an idiot today?

The opportunity to pass cars is quite rare for me, so I would be
interested to hear what is considered to be the best approach to deal
with these obstacles.

I'd have kicked his doors in. It's what he deserves. Same as the tossers who
do it when you overtake them in the car...

And yes, there is a highway code rule stating that you should give way to
overtaking traffic.

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Whilst riding down a hill today, I came up behind a dithering grey
haired Sunday motorist, so I decided to overtake him. Unfortunately,
as I started to go round him, he decided to accelerate and I soon
found my cadence was not sufficiently fast to aid gravity in my
downward progress. I was in no-mans-land in the middle of the road,
straddling the white lines.

Fortunately, when an oncoming caravan appeared around the bend, the
car I was overtaking decided to let me pass, and the dodgy moment was
over.

My question is, would you generally consider it dangerous to overtake
a car on an open road, due to their superior powers of acceleration,
or was I just unlucky to come across an idiot today?

The opportunity to pass cars is quite rare for me, so I would be
interested to hear what is considered to be the best approach to deal
with these obstacles.

On one occasion I was going down an icy hill and there was a car parked
with engine running and brake lights on. Had it been sealed up I would not
have gone past but the doors were open with kids getting in. I was level
with it when she let the brake off. So what do I do now? I looked across at
the driver and fortunately she slowed. Then I heard the doors shutting... a
good 5 seconds after I had started to go past.

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can only assume that by slipstreaming the tractor the car driver
thought I was making passing both my bike and the tractor difficult,
and thereby decided to drive at me. Was I wrong to slipstream the
tractor? If so, what law might I have compromised?

Cheers
Ray

If they didnt have a car capable of overtaking a cyclist and a tractor with
ease (conditions/bends allowing) then they are probably feeling rather
impotent and pathetic already - theyve just passed their self loathing on to
you. Dont pay it any attention - drivers beeping me for no reason usually
get a mouthful for as long as I stay on the same road as them - I always
meet them at traffic lights having nicely planned witty responses that i
couldnt think of during the initial assault 🙂

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

However, as in any other situation, it is the overtaking vehicle's duty to
keep clear. The person you're overtaking should not have to slow down or
move over to let you in. If you can't get past safely and quickly, you
should abort, brake hard, and get back in behind him.

And hope the car behind hasnt moved up to take your space, leaving you with
little way of getting back in without a struggle. This is why i rarely
overtake cars, and it takes some planning - satisfying though!

.. - I always

Quoted message said:

meet them at traffic lights having nicely planned witty responses that i
couldnt think of during the initial assault 🙂

I generally find it dificult to think up a suitable response in the
face of someone bellowing at me to f*** o** or gesticulating
similarly, and I don't suffer from anger, so I tend to just avoid any
eye contact. This tends to be a good survival strategy for all road
users in the south east these days. OTOH a cyclist friend has always
expectorated in the face of any driver who cuts him up.

raisethe wrote on 10/04/2007 10:28 +0100:

Quoted message said:

.. - I always

Quoted message said:

meet them at traffic lights having nicely planned witty responses that i
couldnt think of during the initial assault 🙂

I generally find it dificult to think up a suitable response in the
face of someone bellowing at me to f*** o** or gesticulating
similarly, and I don't suffer from anger, so I tend to just avoid any
eye contact. This tends to be a good survival strategy for all road
users in the south east these days. OTOH a cyclist friend has always
expectorated in the face of any driver who cuts him up.

I see no point in letting them wind me up. It spoils the rest of my ride
and it means their problem becomes my problem. Time was when I would
fume about such stuff but these days I let it go and enjoy the rest of
the ride. Funnily enough declining to be wound up seems to wind many of
them up more which in my book is a win.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:51:33 +0100, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

raisethe wrote on 10/04/2007 10:28 +0100:

Quoted message said:

.. - I always

Quoted message said:

meet them at traffic lights having nicely planned witty responses that i
couldnt think of during the initial assault 🙂

I generally find it dificult to think up a suitable response in the
face of someone bellowing at me to f*** o** or gesticulating
similarly, and I don't suffer from anger, so I tend to just avoid any
eye contact. This tends to be a good survival strategy for all road
users in the south east these days. OTOH a cyclist friend has always
expectorated in the face of any driver who cuts him up.

I see no point in letting them wind me up. It spoils the rest of my ride
and it means their problem becomes my problem. Time was when I would
fume about such stuff but these days I let it go and enjoy the rest of
the ride. Funnily enough declining to be wound up seems to wind many of
them up more which in my book is a win.

This is excellent advice.

In at least 9 cases out of 10 there is absolutely nothing effective you can do
about whatever has happened so just let it go.

If you make some impotent gesture it just shows them they've won.