Question for Users of Pepper Spray

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501553.html

"D'ohBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Had to call the police this evening - my neighbor's shepherd finally
actually leapt at me (from ambush). Prolly woulda had a chunk of my
thigh too but somehow, I don't know how, I managed to accelerate just
enough that he landed on my rear wheel.

So much happened so fast. I think that the dogs (did I mention the
shepherd's buddy, a robust and evil looking rottie?) woulda made
dinner out of me if they really wanted to. I started chasing the
shepherd back to his property and the rottie came at me. Holy [censored] -
RUN! Got outta there and the dogs disappeared back into their
property. That rottie scares me a whole lot more than the shepherd.
Seems to be more in charge, more calculating....

I had my special bat that I used for a similar situation growing up. We
were on a short deadend street with 2 loose gnarly dogs at the corner with
the main street, my only way out. I carried the bat until I was a safe
distance beyond the dogs and then I dropped it behing a bush, I never forgot
to pick it up on the way back. I used it a few times until the dogs got the
picture. Animal control never did anything about them and it was all my Mom
could do to keep my Dad from going over there with a shotgun after we found
a new kitten chomped to death.

Greg

"D'ohBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Had to call the police this evening - my neighbor's shepherd finally
actually leapt at me (from ambush). Prolly woulda had a chunk of my
thigh too but somehow, I don't know how, I managed to accelerate just
enough that he landed on my rear wheel.

So much happened so fast. I think that the dogs (did I mention the
shepherd's buddy, a robust and evil looking rottie?) woulda made
dinner out of me if they really wanted to. I started chasing the
shepherd back to his property and the rottie came at me. Holy [censored] -
RUN! Got outta there and the dogs disappeared back into their
property. That rottie scares me a whole lot more than the shepherd.
Seems to be more in charge, more calculating....

Sonofa! So the county sheriff comes by and tells me I can't pop a
round into ol' Fritz's dog. Dammit, not even to protect myself?? I
think he was just trying to keep the peace. I can't imagine that if I
felt threatened, if the dog had already taken my calf off, I couldn't
fill his little peabrain (the little peabrain that is a mirror image
of his owner's) fulla hot lead.

Sheriff tells me to go get some pepper spray. Tells me the dog has
been sprayed before.

So here's the questions: Which pepper spray do you carry? Have you
ever had to use it? How'd it work for you?

The sheriff told me to consider the bear pepper spray. Apparently
more effective, kinda like a fogger. A fogger?! What if the wind is
blowing toward you from the direction the dog is coming from?!

D'ohBoy, who g**d*** wasted the only good weather we'll have this week
waiting for the sheriff.

The sheriff is correct. Use a stronger spray than the typically used Halt
spray on a dog of that size. But don't get the fogger type. The stream
sprays are far more effective. I don't think he will bother you again if
you get a good shot at him right between the eyes.

Per D'ohBoy:

Quoted message said:

Sheriff tells me to go get some pepper spray. Tells me the dog has
been sprayed before.

So here's the questions: Which pepper spray do you carry? Have you
ever had to use it? How'd it work for you?

The sheriff told me to consider the bear pepper spray. Apparently
more effective, kinda like a fogger. A fogger?! What if the wind is
blowing toward you from the direction the dog is coming from?!

D'ohBoy, who g**d*** wasted the only good weather we'll have this week
waiting for the sheriff.

Two observations/conclusions from my brief careers as dog adversary:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) With most dogs, it doesn't seem tb a religious issue. They're just doing it
more-or-less for fun.... chasing down and tearing apart other animals
is what their ancestors did for a living and the urge is still there,
however attenuated and vague... but it's not eat-or-starve for them
and mostly it doesn't take a lot to discourage the behavior.

When I was running in the evenings after dark, I had trouble with a pack
of large domestic dogs that were just roaming around at night doing whatever
they felt like - and harassing me seemed to amuse them.

I got one of those industrial-strength slingshots - the ones with a
wrist brace. For ammo, I had a handful of 3/8" hex nuts that happened
to be in a jar on my workbench.

First night out with the slingshot the came right at me.
Only got off a single shot. The hex nut made a kind of moaning sound
as it flew under the leader's rib cage and ricocheted off the blacktop.

Instantly the pack just sort of evaporated.

Next night they all ran the other way once they saw it was me.

2) Mace seems to work and you don't have to hit the dog with it.
I'm talking the stuff you get in cop stores. They also sell
a handy pistol grip thingie that you can put the can inside of and
has a safety latch and a trigger to dispense the stuff more
easily while riding.

Don't carry it anymore, but used to in a certain neighborhood.
Again, once seemed tb enough to take the fun out of it for them
and I didn't have to actually hit anybody with it.

All I had to do was lay down a line of the stuff between me and
the harassing animal. One whiff and it lost interest.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

And one caveat....

I used to work for a large electric utility - where many people's first job with
the company was meter reading.

Dog stories were legion. Everybody seemed to have at least one.

What I got out of it was:
--------------------------
- That a dog can *really* mess you up - as in permanent loss of use of
a hand and/or arm due to nerve damage.

- Like people, it seems that some dogs are just plain crazy..... and Mace
won't stop a crazed person - so I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in it's
stopping a crazed dog.
--------------------------
--
PeteCresswell

D'ohBoy said:

Sonofa! So the county sheriff comes by and tells me I can't pop a
round into ol' Fritz's dog. Dammit, not even to protect myself?? I
think he was just trying to keep the peace.

OTOH, the recent dog food media scare points out that the limits of the
liability of the company is the price of a new dog of the same variety.
So, maybe it'd be worth it to you to pay the neighbor for a new puppy,
plus maybe a fine for discharging a firearm in the city limits. Plus,
of course, your neighbor's everlasting hatred.

Quoted message said:

The sheriff told me to consider the bear pepper spray. Apparently
more effective, kinda like a fogger. A fogger?!

You know the joke about the bear pepper spray, right?

--

David L. Johnson

Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig...
You soon find out the pig likes it!

On Apr 2, 9:29 pm, "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

D'ohBoy said:

The sheriff told me to consider the bear pepper spray. Apparently
more effective, kinda like a fogger. A fogger?!

You know the joke about the bear pepper spray, right?

Damn, I thought I went to school in a bad neighborhood,
but if you guys live someplace where even the bears
need to carry pepper spray, I am clearly out of my league.

Ben

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501553.html

Texas just passed the Castle Doctrine too.

Funny how laws vary state to state, or even with-in the state. In response
to my complaint when a pack of the neighbor's dogs came at me several years
ago, the Deputy Sheriff told me I have the right to "put them down". I told
her I didn't want to start a war with my neighbors but would keep that in
mind as a last resort. That would not have been an option had I lived in a
city like Austin where it is illegal to discharge a firearm.

PS After she talked to them I never had another problem.

On Apr 3, 7:35 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

shoot the owner, it's his fault, not the dog's.

Ummmm.... the dog is the one who's threatening to eat the marrow from
my bones. The owner, according to the deputy, is recalcitrant, so I
must deal with the dog.

Thanks for the reminder. Ya know, people keep saying this to me but
the reality is that I have to deal with the IMMEDIATE threat first.

And all future threats.

D'ohBoy

D'ohBoy said:

Had to call the police this evening - my neighbor's shepherd finally
actually leapt at me (from ambush). Prolly woulda had a chunk of my
thigh too but somehow, I don't know how, I managed to accelerate just
enough that he landed on my rear wheel.

So much happened so fast. I think that the dogs (did I mention the
shepherd's buddy, a robust and evil looking rottie?) woulda made
dinner out of me if they really wanted to. I started chasing the
shepherd back to his property and the rottie came at me. Holy [censored] -
RUN! Got outta there and the dogs disappeared back into their
property. That rottie scares me a whole lot more than the shepherd.
Seems to be more in charge, more calculating....

Sonofa! So the county sheriff comes by and tells me I can't pop a
round into ol' Fritz's dog. Dammit, not even to protect myself?? I
think he was just trying to keep the peace. I can't imagine that if I
felt threatened, if the dog had already taken my calf off, I couldn't
fill his little peabrain (the little peabrain that is a mirror image
of his owner's) fulla hot lead.

Sheriff tells me to go get some pepper spray. Tells me the dog has
been sprayed before.

So here's the questions: Which pepper spray do you carry?

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/pepper.htm

Quoted message said:

Have you ever had to use it?

No.

Quoted message said:

How'd it work for you?

So far I've been able to outsprint the attackers. Never even tested it
out. At 6 million Scoville units, I'm tempted to try a bit on some
chicken.

Quoted message said:

The sheriff told me to consider the bear pepper spray. Apparently
more effective, kinda like a fogger. A fogger?! What if the wind is
blowing toward you from the direction the dog is coming from?!

Go for the stream model.
Check the statutes for your area. There may be a capacity limit
(weight) on what you are permitted to (legally) carry.

Quoted message said:

D'ohBoy, who g**d*** wasted the only good weather we'll have this week
waiting for the sheriff.

One poster mentioned that pepper spray might not be enough.
A pen knife in the saddle bag won't likely be effective in battle.
That site has some decent folding knives that will add an extra 75
grams to the saddle bag. Whether or not you can get it out of there in
time to save that thigh will be left as an exercise to the reader.

-bdbafh

D'ohBoy said:

Had to call the police this evening - my neighbor's shepherd finally
actually leapt at me (from ambush). Prolly woulda had a chunk of my
thigh too but somehow, I don't know how, I managed to accelerate just
enough that he landed on my rear wheel.

So much happened so fast. I think that the dogs (did I mention the
shepherd's buddy, a robust and evil looking rottie?) woulda made
dinner out of me if they really wanted to. I started chasing the
shepherd back to his property and the rottie came at me. Holy [censored] -
RUN! Got outta there and the dogs disappeared back into their
property. That rottie scares me a whole lot more than the shepherd.
Seems to be more in charge, more calculating....

Sonofa! So the county sheriff comes by and tells me I can't pop a
round into ol' Fritz's dog. Dammit, not even to protect myself?? I
think he was just trying to keep the peace. I can't imagine that if I
felt threatened, if the dog had already taken my calf off, I couldn't
fill his little peabrain (the little peabrain that is a mirror image
of his owner's) fulla hot lead.

Sheriff tells me to go get some pepper spray. Tells me the dog has
been sprayed before.

So here's the questions: Which pepper spray do you carry? Have you
ever had to use it? How'd it work for you?

The sheriff told me to consider the bear pepper spray. Apparently
more effective, kinda like a fogger. A fogger?! What if the wind is
blowing toward you from the direction the dog is coming from?!

D'ohBoy, who g**d*** wasted the only good weather we'll have this week
waiting for the sheriff.

I was cleaning the stove top with a citrus based degreaser the other
day. I originally bought a gallon of it to use on cleaning bike crud
until I found out it like to etch aluminum. But anyway, I decided to
put a 50/50 mixture of degreaser and water into spray bottle. When I
went to spray this onto the stove top the mist created by the spray
damn near choked me unconscious and my eyes were getting that stinging
feeling. This result was due to contact with the mist of the spray and
not the main elements of the spray! Just think what results you'd
get at full strength.

In article <wArQh.4978$bM1.4392@trnddc03>,

Dave said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501553.html

Texas just passed the Castle Doctrine too.

Funny how laws vary state to state, or even with-in the state. In response
to my complaint when a pack of the neighbor's dogs came at me several years
ago, the Deputy Sheriff told me I have the right to "put them down". I told
her I didn't want to start a war with my neighbors but would keep that in
mind as a last resort. That would not have been an option had I lived in a
city like Austin where it is illegal to discharge a firearm.

PS After she talked to them I never had another problem.

I surprised myself the other day when as a dog came
snarling up at my leg I disengaged the cleat from the
pedal and whap, whap, whap, smacked the dog on the nose
with the cleat of the shoe three times before it knew
it. The dog lost interest. I always call animal
control over incidents. Even testified in court once
when the defendant tried to make an issue of it. Once
the report is on file, a second report on the dog is
bad trouble. Animal control here is a great operation.
--
Michael Press

D'ohBoy said:

Had to call the police this evening - my neighbor's shepherd finally
actually leapt at me (from ambush). Prolly woulda had a chunk of my
thigh too but somehow, I don't know how, I managed to accelerate just
enough that he landed on my rear wheel.

[...deleted...]

Quoted message said:

Sheriff tells me to go get some pepper spray. Tells me the dog has
been sprayed before.

Jesus! Where do you live? Call Animal control. Or go there in
person, and make a very big stink with supervisors and the controling
municipality if neccesary. Study the ordinances, and charge the
owners. I've spent a lot of time succesfully pursuing neighbors for
fenced in barking dogs via a local grievance system in an urban area.
In my current very rural domain, I was bitten 2 weeks ago by a chasing
dog, and animal control here is very strict and behaved
satisfactorily, and will go after nuisance/dangerous dog owners in
court. The dog hadn't been vaccinated, so they quarantined it for 10
days, fined the owner and explained that this is intolerable behavior.
And they keep track of offenders and haul people into court and
administer fines. You have to let the authorities know that you are
"as mad as hell, and not going to take it anymore"

Quoted message said:

So here's the questions: Which pepper spray do you carry? Have you
ever had to use it? How'd it work for you?

The sheriff told me to consider the bear pepper spray. Apparently
more effective, kinda like a fogger. A fogger?! What if the wind is
blowing toward you from the direction the dog is coming from?!

Tell the sheriff he's negligent in his duties by casually failing to
enforce your right to safely traverse a public right of way. Yes,
that's right: confront him -- he's probably tired of people being
polite to him all the time, and that just encourages his arrogance and
indifference. Bear spray costs about $40 for a 10 second spray, and
you get to carry it around everywhere you go. I'd never do that. If
there was a repeatable situation that happened every single time and
the authorities were ignoring me, I'd bring a bat and smack the dog
upside the head (and feel really guilty because it's the owner that
deserves it). I have trouble finding room for an extra pair of warm
gloves or a very foldable rainjacket, let alone bear spray on every
ride.

Besides, dogs only bite in the heat of the excitement of pursuit, and
only when you're putting everything into a breakaway sprint, just when
you're least able to wield your expensive spray, and administer it
accurately without disabling yourself, or causing yourself to crash at
high speed. There is no defense in that case. The only thing you can
do is make eye contact when menaced, slow and stop if neccesary,
dismount, yell at the dog, put the bike in front of you, scream and
curse at the top of your lungs at the dog owners and neighbors, call
911 and report that you're being attacked, and exaggerate (otherwise
they may ignore you), and spray it with your water bottle. And make
sure you [censored] like hell to the authorities, and not just the sheriff
who shows up on the scene.

Quoted message said:

D'ohBoy, who g**d*** wasted the only good weather we'll have this week
waiting for the sheriff.

Bill Westphal

D'ohBoy said:

On Apr 3, 7:35 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

shoot the owner, it's his fault, not the dog's.

Ummmm.... the dog is the one who's threatening to eat the marrow from
my bones. The owner, according to the deputy, is recalcitrant, so I
must deal with the dog.

Thanks for the reminder. Ya know, people keep saying this to me but
the reality is that I have to deal with the IMMEDIATE threat first.

And all future threats.

D'ohBoy

Get a lawyer and serve the idiot owner. If you are off his property
and the dog threatens you, it is the owner's fault, not the dog. Don't
punish a dog for the idiocy of the owner, who KNOWS better, not the
dog.

bdbafh said:

D'ohBoy said:

Had to call the police this evening - my neighbor's shepherd finally
actually leapt at me (from ambush). Prolly woulda had a chunk of my
thigh too but somehow, I don't know how, I managed to accelerate just
enough that he landed on my rear wheel.

So much happened so fast. I think that the dogs (did I mention the
shepherd's buddy, a robust and evil looking rottie?) woulda made
dinner out of me if they really wanted to. I started chasing the
shepherd back to his property and the rottie came at me. Holy [censored] -
RUN! Got outta there and the dogs disappeared back into their
property. That rottie scares me a whole lot more than the shepherd.
Seems to be more in charge, more calculating....

Sonofa! So the county sheriff comes by and tells me I can't pop a
round into ol' Fritz's dog. Dammit, not even to protect myself?? I
think he was just trying to keep the peace. I can't imagine that if I
felt threatened, if the dog had already taken my calf off, I couldn't
fill his little peabrain (the little peabrain that is a mirror image
of his owner's) fulla hot lead.

Sheriff tells me to go get some pepper spray. Tells me the dog has
been sprayed before.

So here's the questions: Which pepper spray do you carry?

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/pepper.htm

Quoted message said:

Have you ever had to use it?

No.

Quoted message said:

How'd it work for you?

So far I've been able to outsprint the attackers. Never even tested it
out. At 6 million Scoville units, I'm tempted to try a bit on some
chicken.

Quoted message said:

The sheriff told me to consider the bear pepper spray. Apparently
more effective, kinda like a fogger. A fogger?! What if the wind is
blowing toward you from the direction the dog is coming from?!

Go for the stream model.
Check the statutes for your area. There may be a capacity limit
(weight) on what you are permitted to (legally) carry.

Quoted message said:

D'ohBoy, who g**d*** wasted the only good weather we'll have this week
waiting for the sheriff.

One poster mentioned that pepper spray might not be enough.
A pen knife in the saddle bag won't likely be effective in battle.
That site has some decent folding knives that will add an extra 75
grams to the saddle bag. Whether or not you can get it out of there in
time to save that thigh will be left as an exercise to the reader.

Buck makes a folding knife with a sturdy belt clip on it. When I ride my
conventional bike I clip it to my shorts. On my recumbent, I clip it to
the seat. If you get one, pack rubbing compound into the hinge then open
and close it a few hundred times. Then clean it well and oil it. It will
then easily open with a slight flick of the wrist.

Bill Westphal said:

Tell the sheriff he's negligent in his duties by casually failing to
enforce your right to safely traverse a public right of way. Yes,
that's right: confront him -- he's probably tired of people being polite
to him all the time, and that just encourages his arrogance and
indifference.

I wouldn't use that language, but if you bring to his attention the law
being broken, any good cop will acknowledge the situation and take action.
Like anyone, cops may get a little rusty on what the rules actually are.
They want to do a good job,

Know the law in your area regarding dogs, so you'll know what you can do
when a situation arises. Our bike club spans about 10 different
localities, each with slightly different laws.

As an aside, people may worry most about being bitten, but the greatest
danger with dogs is that they'll get under your wheels and cause a crash.
Chase instinct makes them try to get in front of you. My data is only
anecdotal, but all the dog mishaps we've had around here have all been
crashes, some with serious injuries, but no significant bites.

Matt O.

MACE brand defense spray, Mace Security International, Bennington
Vermont
www.macebrand.com
police model used here. I've used it on various critters. works good.
puts people into the ER.
i live in florida. i live in the better areas florida. people fall
into holes here everyday. once you venture outside the better areas,
you in big trouble.
a very substantial protion of the population supports child killers
and seriel rapists. sane people carry mace, good looking women carry
mace. a substantial portion of the population knows I cycle armed to
the teeth and generally leave me alone. let's see, I've been attacked
5-6 times by a group of retarded goons, once in front of walmart!! and
if you pull the mace out, the goons have seizures, mill about, then
start whining about calling the cops caws you're armed with mace.
makes you wanna puke. I was attacked walking of the train in coral
gables. the mob overseer stopped the attack by shouting at the goons
that i was armed with mace!
i carry it in a belt bag or the mesh pockets of the daypack.

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <wArQh.4978$bM1.4392@trnddc03>,

Dave said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501553.html

Texas just passed the Castle Doctrine too.

Funny how laws vary state to state, or even with-in the state. In
response
to my complaint when a pack of the neighbor's dogs came at me several
years
ago, the Deputy Sheriff told me I have the right to "put them down". I
told
her I didn't want to start a war with my neighbors but would keep that in
mind as a last resort. That would not have been an option had I lived in
a
city like Austin where it is illegal to discharge a firearm.

PS After she talked to them I never had another problem.

I surprised myself the other day when as a dog came
snarling up at my leg I disengaged the cleat from the
pedal and whap, whap, whap, smacked the dog on the nose
with the cleat of the shoe three times before it knew
it. The dog lost interest. I always call animal
control over incidents. Even testified in court once
when the defendant tried to make an issue of it. Once
the report is on file, a second report on the dog is
bad trouble. Animal control here is a great operation.
--
Michael Press

The situation is improving out here in the country. We finally got an animal
control officer and he's doing a very good job. There have also been a few
high profile dog mauling cases in the last couple years that has resulted in
the Texas legislature considering a dangerous dog law (today as we speak),
one that has some teeth in it (no pun intended), hopefully.

MACE www.macebrand.com Triple Actionâ„¢ Police
buying from mace is safer than buying discount.

Kenny said:

D'ohBoy said:

Had to call the police this evening - my neighbor's shepherd finally
actually leapt at me (from ambush). Prolly woulda had a chunk of my
thigh too but somehow, I don't know how, I managed to accelerate just
enough that he landed on my rear wheel.

Quoted message said:

So much happened so fast. I think that the dogs (did I mention the
shepherd's buddy, a robust and evil looking rottie?) woulda made
dinner out of me if they really wanted to. I started chasing the
shepherd back to his property and the rottie came at me. Holy [censored] -
RUN! Got outta there and the dogs disappeared back into their
property. That rottie scares me a whole lot more than the shepherd.
Seems to be more in charge, more calculating....

Quoted message said:

Sonofa! So the county sheriff comes by and tells me I can't pop a
round into ol' Fritz's dog. Dammit, not even to protect myself?? I
think he was just trying to keep the peace. I can't imagine that if I
felt threatened, if the dog had already taken my calf off, I couldn't
fill his little peabrain (the little peabrain that is a mirror image
of his owner's) fulla hot lead.

Quoted message said:

Sheriff tells me to go get some pepper spray. Tells me the dog has
been sprayed before.

Quoted message said:

So here's the questions: Which pepper spray do you carry? Have you
ever had to use it? How'd it work for you?

Quoted message said:

The sheriff told me to consider the bear pepper spray. Apparently
more effective, kinda like a fogger. A fogger?! What if the wind is
blowing toward you from the direction the dog is coming from?!

Quoted message said:

D'ohBoy, who g**d*** wasted the only good weather we'll have this week
waiting for the sheriff.

I was cleaning the stove top with a citrus based degreaser the other
day. I originally bought a gallon of it to use on cleaning bike crud
until I found out it like to etch aluminum. But anyway, I decided to
put a 50/50 mixture of degreaser and water into spray bottle. When I
went to spray this onto the stove top the mist created by the spray
damn near choked me unconscious and my eyes were getting that stinging
feeling. This result was due to contact with the mist of the spray and
not the main elements of the spray! Just think what results you'd
get at full strength.

So... ... which one ???