Fixing to Fix

"Don Whybrow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It has been a growing desire of mine to join the ranks of fixated riders.
I am just in the process of accumulating enough funds to get a Langster.
Yes, I know the true rider builds one up using bits from the spares box
and an old 70's frame found in the local pond, I may do this for a second
fixie, but I fancy having a shiny one first.

Without having ridden one, I was curious how I would cope with it, so I
have tried an experiment for the commute, both ways, today. The Langster
comes with 42/16 gearing and as it happens my bike also has a 42T front
ring. The Nexus8 hub is fitted with a 21T sprocket, which means that the
closest I can get is in 6th, which, according to Sheldon is the equivalent
of 17.2T. 7th is 14.8T which seems a tad excessive.

During the commute I tried as much as possible to stay in 6th and keep the
cranks turning without letting any coasting. The former was a total
success, but the latter was difficult. On downhills I needed to use my
brakes to simulate applying back pressure. At one point when negotiating a
junction I was concentrating on the traffic flow and started coasting. At
another time I was overtaking a parked car at almost maximum cadence and
another car was overtaking me, limiting my line, and I had to ride over a
developing pot hole. As I rose to ride the shock, I stopped pedalling, in
fact I am not sure I would have been able to lift myself up at that
cadence. I also had a problem when coming up to lights or stationary
queues. I am used to starting off with my left foot on the ground and
applying the initial power stroke with my right. It soon became apparent
that I would need to learn to anticipate stopping so that I had a pedal in
the correct position for starting and I would need to learn how to start
with either foot.

Going up the main hill on the commute was a bit of a lung buster which
would probably be even harder with a 16T although I would not be carrying
as much weight. When I get the real thing I will probably do one commute a
week on the current bike for a laundry run and have the fixie as light as
possible, no rack, no mudguards, no lights and just use a small saddle bag
for the necessities.

Basic impressions of riding style were out of saddle sprint mode for
uphill, TT tuck for the flats and manic flailing of legs for downhill. I
look forward to doing it for real. In the meantime I will continue
practising.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and restart
body.

Good idea in trying to simulate fixed BUT it's a really different experience
in the flesh

The "momentum" that you get makes all the difference, especially when
climbing - you also don't say whether you were clipped in or not, again
clipped makes an amazing difference with the legs pushing and pulling to
increase power.

You'll love it when you get the real thing!

RG

RG said:

"Don Whybrow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Without having ridden one, I was curious how I would cope with it, so I
have tried an experiment for the commute, both ways, today. The Langster

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

During the commute I tried as much as possible to stay in 6th and keep the
cranks turning without letting any coasting. The former was a total

Quoted message said:

Good idea in trying to simulate fixed BUT it's a really different experience
in the flesh

Could you better simulate the effect by using a derailleur equipped bike
and cable tying the cassette to the spokes? Or is this just a Bloody
Stupid And Dangerous Idea?

Richard Bates said:

RG said:

Good idea in trying to simulate fixed BUT it's a really different experience
in the flesh

Could you better simulate the effect by using a derailleur equipped bike
and cable tying the cassette to the spokes? Or is this just a Bloody
Stupid And Dangerous Idea?

Yes. Weld it instead 😉

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel

"mb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Bates said:

RG said:

Good idea in trying to simulate fixed BUT it's a really different

experience

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the flesh

Could you better simulate the effect by using a derailleur equipped bike
and cable tying the cassette to the spokes? Or is this just a Bloody
Stupid And Dangerous Idea?

Yes. Weld it instead 😉

And take off the derailleur, and shorten the chain.

Mike Sales

in message <[email hidden]>, Richard Bates

(') said:

RG said:

"Don Whybrow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Without having ridden one, I was curious how I would cope with it, so I
have tried an experiment for the commute, both ways, today. The
Langster

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

During the commute I tried as much as possible to stay in 6th and keep
the cranks turning without letting any coasting. The former was a total

Quoted message said:

Good idea in trying to simulate fixed BUT it's a really different
experience in the flesh

Could you better simulate the effect by using a derailleur equipped bike
and cable tying the cassette to the spokes? Or is this just a Bloody
Stupid And Dangerous Idea?

Unless you take the derailleur off completely and shorten your chain
appropriately you will knacker your derailleur and possibly also damage
your frame.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; So, before proceeding with definitive screwing, choose the
;; position most congenital.
-- instructions for fitting bicycle handlebars

Richard Bates said:

Could you better simulate the effect by using a derailleur equipped bike
and cable tying the cassette to the spokes? Or is this just a Bloody
Stupid And Dangerous Idea?

As others have pointed out you'd have to remove the derailleur and shorten
the chain. Unless you had horizontal dropouts, you might then find that you
struggle to get decent chain tension. After that, my guess is is that it
could actually hold up for a while provided you only ever applied gentle
backpressure on the pedals, and if the cable ties did break nothing
disastrous would result (not that I want to take responsibility if anyone
tries this!)

Anthony

RG said:

Good idea in trying to simulate fixed BUT it's a really different experience
in the flesh

Oh, I am aware of that, I was wanting to see whether I could cope with
the climbs and descents only using a similar ratio to a fixed.

Quoted message said:

The "momentum" that you get makes all the difference, especially when
climbing - you also don't say whether you were clipped in or not, again
clipped makes an amazing difference with the legs pushing and pulling to
increase power.

I was clipped with SPD's. I know some people like to have the cleats
tight, but I like them a little loose in case I need to unclip in a
hurry. I still have them tight enough to pull with.

Quoted message said:

You'll love it when you get the real thing!

I know I mentioned the Langster in the OP, but I went onto ebay last
night and found the Pearson Touche [1]. Pure pr0n. I think I need to
save for a bit longer!

[1] http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/index.html?action=97

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

A conclusion is the place where you get tired of thinking.
(Arthur Bloch)

In news:[email hidden],
Richard Bates <[email hidden]> tweaked the
Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

Could you better simulate the effect by using a derailleur equipped
bike and cable tying the cassette to the spokes? Or is this just a
Bloody Stupid And Dangerous Idea?

IIRC John Spooner trying this on last year's Bryan Chapman, when his freehub
packed up. He rapidly discovered that even heavy-duty cable ties aren't up
to that kind of treatment, and was obliged to post a DNF.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
If you want a bicycle, buy a bicycle. If you want something
that folds, buy a deckchair.

Don Whybrow said:

It has been a growing desire of mine to join the ranks of fixated
riders. I am just in the process of accumulating enough funds to get a
Langster. Yes, I know the true rider builds one up using bits from the
spares box and an old 70's frame found in the local pond, I may do this
for a second fixie, but I fancy having a shiny one first.

I took the opposite approach, thinking I like to spend as little as
possible, initially!

Quoted message said:

Without having ridden one, I was curious how I would cope with it, so I
have tried an experiment for the commute, both ways, today. The Langster
comes with 42/16 gearing and as it happens my bike also has a 42T front
ring. The Nexus8 hub is fitted with a 21T sprocket, which means that the
closest I can get is in 6th, which, according to Sheldon is the
equivalent of 17.2T. 7th is 14.8T which seems a tad excessive.

I went through using one gear to removing the mechs and hardwiring
the chain (single-speed) before getting the proper fixed setup. I like
a fairly high cadence and have opted for a lower gear than that
(38x16/64"😉. This gets me up and down Hanover Street and recently took
me on a 60 mile circuit through Braco, St. Fillans & Callander.
Fixie no. 2 is getting a 52x21/67"😉, which is a touch higher than I'd
like but uses the existing chainset and a cheap ebay-sourced cog.

Quoted message said:

During the commute I tried as much as possible to stay in 6th and keep
the cranks turning without letting any coasting. The former was a total
success, but the latter was difficult.

I found it harder work to pedal a single-speed as if it were fixed
than to pedal the fixed. You have to push to keep the freewheel
engaged on a single-speed but a fixie will push you.

Quoted message said:

At one point when negotiating
a junction I was concentrating on the traffic flow and started coasting.
At another time I was overtaking a parked car at almost maximum cadence
and another car was overtaking me, limiting my line, and I had to ride
over a developing pot hole. As I rose to ride the shock, I stopped
pedalling,

This will happen a few times until you stop forgetting that you
can't. Try and give yourself space to screw up... :-). My most
memorable moments were a downhill turn onto Princes St, when the rear
wheel started to skid out on diesel and I tried to stop pedalling to
get my balance, and a fast cruise down a gentle slope where I forgot I
couldn't coast while I was admiring the view... Think of it as
initiation!

Quoted message said:

in fact I am not sure I would have been able to lift myself
up at that cadence. I also had a problem when coming up to lights or
stationary queues. I am used to starting off with my left foot on the
ground and applying the initial power stroke with my right. It soon
became apparent that I would need to learn to anticipate stopping so
that I had a pedal in the correct position for starting and I would need
to learn how to start with either foot.

Or apply the front brake and push forwards to lift the back wheel a
touch, then rotate in the appropriate direction to get your natural
starting position. Again, this is easier when you are actually fixed.

Quoted message said:

Going up the main hill on the commute was a bit of a lung buster which
would probably be even harder with a 16T although I would not be
carrying as much weight. When I get the real thing I will probably do
one commute a week on the current bike for a laundry run and have the
fixie as light as possible, no rack, no mudguards, no lights and just
use a small saddle bag for the necessities.

Way to go, dunno about no mudguards in edinburgh, though...

Quoted message said:

Basic impressions of riding style were out of saddle sprint mode for
uphill, TT tuck for the flats and manic flailing of legs for downhill. I
look forward to doing it for real. In the meantime I will continue
practising.

Yup. Would you like to try out one of my bikes? Assuming you're
fairly close to my size (~33" inside leg) you would be welcome. I'm
just about finished fixing a "town bike" for use in Edinburgh (Ebay
special), which is a bit heavy but functional and lacks thief-appeal.
I also have the original one I built on a 531c frame, which is so nice
to ride I don't want to trash it around town!

Cheers,
W.

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Larrington
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
Richard Bates <[email hidden]> tweaked the
Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

Could you better simulate the effect by using a derailleur equipped
bike and cable tying the cassette to the spokes? Or is this just a
Bloody Stupid And Dangerous Idea?

IIRC John Spooner trying this on last year's Bryan Chapman, when his freehub
packed up. He rapidly discovered that even heavy-duty cable ties aren't up
to that kind of treatment, and was obliged to post a DNF.

It might have worked if he'd used a spare brake cable instead of cable
ties. Probably wouldn't do the hub or spokes a lot of good in the long
term though.

Quoted message said:

Don Whybrow said:

Without having ridden one, I was curious how I would cope with it, so I
have tried an experiment for the commute, both ways, today. The Langster
comes with 42/16 gearing and as it happens my bike also has a 42T front
ring. The Nexus8 hub is fitted with a 21T sprocket, which means that the
closest I can get is in 6th, which, according to Sheldon is the
equivalent of 17.2T. 7th is 14.8T which seems a tad excessive.

As it turns out this is total b*ll*cks. I forgot to factor in my current
wheel size vs. 700C & crank length to get Sheldon's gain ratio's. As it
turns out 42/16 on a 700C with 170 cranks is pretty close to 7th on a
nexus8 with 42/21 on a 559 with 170 cranks. I will give that a go next
time. I doubt I will try 8th as this is the same as 42/14 or 48/16 and
that could be tough.

Quoted message said:

Think of it as initiation!

I hope the ceremony is not too painful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I also had a problem when coming up to lights or
stationary queues. I am used to starting off with my left foot on the
ground and applying the initial power stroke with my right. It soon
became apparent that I would need to learn to anticipate stopping so
that I had a pedal in the correct position for starting and I would need
to learn how to start with either foot.

Or apply the front brake and push forwards to lift the back wheel a
touch, then rotate in the appropriate direction to get your natural
starting position. Again, this is easier when you are actually fixed.

Useful tip, thanks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Going up the main hill on the commute was a bit of a lung buster which
would probably be even harder with a 16T although I would not be
carrying as much weight. When I get the real thing I will probably do
one commute a week on the current bike for a laundry run and have the
fixie as light as possible, no rack, no mudguards, no lights and just
use a small saddle bag for the necessities.

Way to go, dunno about no mudguards in edinburgh, though...

Yeah, I am reconsidering those and also the lights. If I want to use it
all year round it will need them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Basic impressions of riding style were out of saddle sprint mode for
uphill, TT tuck for the flats and manic flailing of legs for downhill. I
look forward to doing it for real. In the meantime I will continue
practising.

Yup. Would you like to try out one of my bikes? Assuming you're
fairly close to my size (~33" inside leg) you would be welcome. I'm
just about finished fixing a "town bike" for use in Edinburgh (Ebay
special), which is a bit heavy but functional and lacks thief-appeal.
I also have the original one I built on a 531c frame, which is so nice
to ride I don't want to trash it around town!

That is very generous of you, 33 is about correct for me. I keep my
bikes locked away at night and at work we have space in an underground
car park with controlled entry.

Is your email address correct? mine is. Perhaps we should take this off
group to thrash out details.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"I've noticed that the press tends to be quite accurate, except
when they're writing on a subject I know something about."
(Keith F. Lynch)

Hi,

Don Whybrow said:

Is your email address correct? mine is. Perhaps we should take this off
group to thrash out details.

Can you drop me a line to [email hidden] and I'll pass on my
'phone number.

Cheers,
W.

Quoted message said:

Would you like to try out one of my bikes? Assuming you're
fairly close to my size (~33" inside leg) you would be welcome. I'm
just about finished fixing a "town bike" for use in Edinburgh (Ebay
special), which is a bit heavy but functional and lacks thief-appeal.
I also have the original one I built on a 531c frame, which is so nice
to ride I don't want to trash it around town!

The very kind W met me yesterday to hand over his original 531c fixie.
As I had my bike at the office and I have yet to find a way of riding 2
bikes at once I rode mine home last night in stealth fixie mode and
caught the bus in today carrying a suitable change of clothing, my
emergency tools, etc. in a backpack.

There is one added feature of 531c that needs to be mentioned, W has it
fitted with pedals with straps. I was going to have 2 firsts, riding
fixed and using straps. Now, I understand getting your second foot into
straps can be a bit tricky in a free-wheel bike, but I would imagine it
takes a lot of practice on fixed. Luckily W had this covered. Use the
street furniture to hold yourself upright while you get both feet in.
Another tip I found on the way home was to keep a good lookout for what
the traffic was doing and to try to anticipate the flow. For example,
start slowing for traffic light with plenty of time so that by the time
you reached them they are back to green.

I work near St. Andrews Square in Edinburgh. If you know Edinburgh, you
probably know where it is. If you don't, it is as about central as you
can get. I had no problems setting off, managing to time my approach to
the traffic lights off the square and again onto Princes Street without
any problems. At Princess Street I take a left turn and then right at
the next set of lights to go up the Bridges. This is co-ordinated with
the last set I went through so that unless I put a sprint in, I will
have to wait the full sequence. Such was the case today and there was no
suitable furniture to prop myself upright with so I had to take one foot
out and then get up to the High Street using the back of the pedal on
one side. At this set of lights I was able to get my foot back in.

So the process repeated itself, on some junctions I could time it
correctly, when I had to stop some provided furniture and some did not.
If I knew I had a bit of a climb or descent coming up after a junction
and I was not properly in, I would find a bit of furniture after the
junction and get set up before heading off.

That about covers the straps. As for the fixed experience, it was as I
had been expecting, only more so. I was actively trying to control my
speed on descents with the pedals and it was obvious that I was not used
to pedalling in circles.

W had mentioned that he was happy for me to change the pedals over to
some of my own, but on getting back I was only able to remove one of
them, the other is securely stuck. Looks like another lesson in
anticipation for me tomorrow.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

You guys got something against spam? (Vriess, in _Alien 4_)

Don Whybrow said:

RG said:

You'll love it when you get the real thing!

I know I mentioned the Langster in the OP, but I went onto ebay last
night and found the Pearson Touche [1]. Pure pr0n. I think I need to
save for a bit longer!

[1] http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/index.html?action=97

After battling with my need to fix sooner rather than later and most
importantly my inability to get this past the financial controller, I
have reverted to plan "B". Over the last few days I had been trawling
through ebay in search of a suitable frame to build my own on when
suddenly I was hit by an inspiration. Actually I was hit on the head by
the rear drop-outs of my spares bike that was hanging from the garage
rafters. This I had bought from a colleague who had been in a prang with
it and decided to take the bus for a while. He happened to have the same
make & model bike as me although with a smaller frame size. I bought it
as I was interested in the components that I could salvage. The
drop-outs were horizontal track ones, but how bad was the damage to the
frame? Only one way to find out. Strip it down and take a good look.

Before starting, I had already removed the wheels to see if the front
could be salvaged to put a dynohub in the rim, it couldn't. The rear
wheel has donated the rim to the dynohub project and the Nexus8 hub has
provided a set of internals while I clean & re-grease the original one.

Side: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/456935124_44962e1b50_b.jpg
Front: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/183/456935132_460358bdb7_b.jpg
(you may be able to spot the deformation of the forks)
Rear: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/456935142_0b4f9031fb_b.jpg

Since this frame was specifically designed for a roller brake on the
rear, there are no braze ons for V brakes and I am not sure whether I
can mount anything on the seat stay. This may not be too much of an
issue as I don't *need* a rear brake, but I would feel more comfortable
to start with if one was there.

Back of seat stay:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/208/456935144_10e61c125c_b.jpg
Front of seat stay:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/168/456947988_a002aff60e_b.jpg
(The auto focus was more interested in my gutter)

The forks are definitely scrap:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/456947998_771fc210e5_b.jpg
(the blue rod is there as a straight(ish) edge)

Stamped on the steerer tube was the following:

LUNGI
SHT BCM 04SEP
258X365

Is any of this useful or needed when I get a replacement?

A wipe down of the frame after removing as much as I can leaves it
looking good and I could not detect any deformation due to the accident
by sight alone. I was told that the head tube was 2 degrees off true. If
so, I can't see it and it will only affect the handling a small amount,
it is not intended to be a performance machine. A minor niggle was that
I couldn't get the BB out.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/236/456948010_724362671b_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/456948032_920cdb0fe0_b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/169/456948060_55cd3a3fdd_b.jpg

I thought that this frame was designed to have 26" wheels on, but as I
worked on it, it looked as though there might be enough clearance for
700C's, I happened to have an old one lying around, although the hub is
knackered and it might just work. With the axle about halfway along the
drop-out it looks like this (the tyre is not inflated, it doesn't even
have a tube inside).

Side view: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/251/456948074_cfeb119a99_b.jpg
Chain stay clearance:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/224/456951486_f2e9a2e9b3_b.jpg
(a bit on the tight side, but ...)
Seat stay clearance:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/178/456951496_9d871d0981_b.jpg

I think the next stage I need to get sorted out is to get new fork
fitted by the LBS and see if they can take out the BB so I have the
option to replace it if it gives the wrong chainline.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

If you're happy and you know it, clunk your chains.

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 23:23:37 +0100, Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

it is not intended to be a performance machine. A minor niggle was that
I couldn't get the BB out.

I was battlig with a stuck cartridge BB the other day. The solution
was:

0. Apply plus gas. Have a cup of tea or coffee.

1. Using a selection of suitable washers and a crankbolt, bolt the BB
removal tool snuggly into place. The washers must be of the size such
that the crank bolt doesn't fall through the hole in the tool and also
don't extend past the edges of the tool.

2. Get the appropriate sized socket, tommy bar and that cut off bit of
scaffold pipe in the corner of the garage by the door.

3. Apply _a lot_ of torque. Remember to turn the tool the right way -
check Sheldon for BB threadings. Probably easier if the wheel are on
the bike and it's standing on the ground rather than held in a
workstand.

4. Sigh with relief as the BB shifts with an audible crack.

5. Apply grease or PTFE tape to new BB to prevent having to do 0-4 in
the future.

Tim

Quoting Tim Hall <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I was battlig with a stuck cartridge BB the other day. The solution
was:

We had a stuck cup recently, and did something like this;

Quoted message said:

0. Apply plus gas. Have a cup of tea or coffee.
1. Using a selection of suitable washers and a crankbolt, bolt the BB
removal tool snuggly into place.
2. Get the appropriate sized socket, tommy bar and that cut off bit of
scaffold pipe in the corner of the garage by the door.
3. Apply _a lot_ of torque.

3.5 Apply heat gun to BB shell - Al frame, so some possibility that
thermal expansion will help us out.

4. Apply a lot of torque again.
5. BB loosens. Hooray!
6. Tidy up heat gun pressing nozzle to forearm.
7. Curse.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!
Today is Wednesday, April.

Tim Hall said:

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 23:23:37 +0100, Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

it is not intended to be a performance machine. A minor niggle was that
I couldn't get the BB out.

I was battlig with a stuck cartridge BB the other day. The solution
was:

....

Joy!

Last night I had applied liberal quantities of penetrating oil. I gave
it another go after getting home armed with a hefty adjustable spanner.
It came off a treat. I now have a totally naked frame so the next step
is to find a suitable replacement set of forks.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"The war isn't the war between the blacks and the whites, the
liberals and the conservatives, or the Federation and the
Romulans. It's between the clueful and the clueless." (an
anonymous poster on cypherpunks list)

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Hall
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 23:23:37 +0100, Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

it is not intended to be a performance machine. A minor niggle was that
I couldn't get the BB out.

I was battlig with a stuck cartridge BB the other day. The solution
was:

0. Apply plus gas. Have a cup of tea or coffee.

1. Using a selection of suitable washers and a crankbolt, bolt the BB
removal tool snuggly into place. The washers must be of the size such
that the crank bolt doesn't fall through the hole in the tool and also
don't extend past the edges of the tool.

2. Get the appropriate sized socket, tommy bar and that cut off bit of
scaffold pipe in the corner of the garage by the door.

It's much easier to clamp the extractor in a bench vice, and use the
frame for leverage.