Better drivers needed, everywhere.

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

New thread time.
How many riders have been out and noticed the crappy driving habits of the
car crowd? I was out a few days back and just stopped to observe traffic
from the safety of the sidewalk. This was a 3 way stop sign, T type of
intersection. Out of about 30 cars I watched over maybe a ten minute
period, none (0.00) came to a complete stop, and one blew through at about
35 MPH in a 25 zone.
All but one or two went into nearly full throttle to the next stop sign
one block down the road and then slammed on the brakes for the next
rolling stop.
My house is near another of these 'T' type intersections and it goes on
all day long. With gas now over $3.00 a gallon this makes no sense at all,
yet the dipsticks with the gas pedal don't seem to get the point.
So, do we really have a gasoline shortage or is it just that these idiot
motorists are sucking up the fuel with their stupid driving antics?
They sure can turn a 35 MPG car into a 25 MPG car with bad driving habits,
like the stop sign drag races, even if with themselves. I drive my Mazda
in the highest gear possible and shift 1, 3, 5, and it gets really good
mileage around town. Oddly enough when I took my driving test the DMV guy
gave me bad points for oddball shifting, even when I explained what I was
doing.
I don't think this is limited to just California so let's take a poll.
Do drivers in your area drive as bad?
Bill Baka

Part of the problem is bad design, IMO... overuse of traffic controls leads
to drivers disrespecting them I think. Take your example of stop sign after
stop sign after stop sign... put too many of them in and you will actually
encourage people to do exactly what you observed: fail to completely stop,
then speed to the next, lather, rinse, repeat.

It's not too different, again IMO, than traffic facilities that are poorly
designed with bicyclists' needs in mind. It seems a rare ride that I don't
disregard SOME traffic signal, law, or design because it simply isn't
adequate or compatible with biking! From loop detectors at traffic signals
that can't detect my bike... to mixed-use bike lane/parking lanes... to
too-narrow lanes... to ill-placed traffic controls, speed bumps, sidewalks,
etc... to motorist/ped/bike conflicts over shared spaces or ill-thought
path-crossing...

Part of the problem is that authorities tend to respond to problems by
constantly ADDING traffic controls... as if adding more signage, speed
bumps, signals, etc. is ALWAYS the answer. The mall circle drive that loops
around the mall just south of where I live is a perfect example of asinine
traffic control... recently some numbskull apparently got it in his head
that -- for liability reasons, no doubt, or to "slow traffic down" -- it
would be a good idea to put literally SEVEN stop signs along the south
stretch of the drive... this in a half-mile stretch, mind you.

It is utterly ridiculous as this is a through route with a 30 MPH speed
limit that has actually always been quite well-respected. There's a need
for ONE stop sign, tops.... the stop signs are all at minor intersections
for the occasional aisle traffic that wants to turn onto to through route...
and one of the stop signs is installed at a CLOSED parking garage so no
crossing traffic or peds -- a stop sign with no useful function whatsoever.

Is it any wonder why people disrespect these signs? It's human nature,
people.

I do not intend to imply that it excuses all bad driver behavior, but this
paradigm needs to be completely re-thought.

brink

brink said:

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

New thread time.
How many riders have been out and noticed the crappy driving habits of the
car crowd? I was out a few days back and just stopped to observe traffic
from the safety of the sidewalk. This was a 3 way stop sign, T type of
intersection. Out of about 30 cars I watched over maybe a ten minute
period, none (0.00) came to a complete stop, and one blew through at about
35 MPH in a 25 zone.
All but one or two went into nearly full throttle to the next stop sign
one block down the road and then slammed on the brakes for the next
rolling stop.
My house is near another of these 'T' type intersections and it goes on
all day long. With gas now over $3.00 a gallon this makes no sense at all,
yet the dipsticks with the gas pedal don't seem to get the point.
So, do we really have a gasoline shortage or is it just that these idiot
motorists are sucking up the fuel with their stupid driving antics?
They sure can turn a 35 MPG car into a 25 MPG car with bad driving habits,
like the stop sign drag races, even if with themselves. I drive my Mazda
in the highest gear possible and shift 1, 3, 5, and it gets really good
mileage around town. Oddly enough when I took my driving test the DMV guy
gave me bad points for oddball shifting, even when I explained what I was
doing.
I don't think this is limited to just California so let's take a poll.
Do drivers in your area drive as bad?
Bill Baka

Part of the problem is bad design, IMO... overuse of traffic controls leads
to drivers disrespecting them I think. Take your example of stop sign after
stop sign after stop sign... put too many of them in and you will actually
encourage people to do exactly what you observed: fail to completely stop,
then speed to the next, lather, rinse, repeat.

I have to agree with you about bad design, since as a motorist I wound
up on a street that had stop signs every half block for about 2 miles.
After about a dozen such stops I found myself falling into the stop,
speed, stop again pattern. That was just plain bad design in Los
Angeles. The area I was watching has stop signs about every quarter mile
and only where they are actually needed. The street layout is good but
the drivers were not ones I would like to be in the midst of, bicycle or
car.

Quoted message said:

It's not too different, again IMO, than traffic facilities that are poorly
designed with bicyclists' needs in mind. It seems a rare ride that I don't
disregard SOME traffic signal, law, or design because it simply isn't
adequate or compatible with biking! From loop detectors at traffic signals
that can't detect my bike... to mixed-use bike lane/parking lanes... to
too-narrow lanes... to ill-placed traffic controls, speed bumps, sidewalks,
etc... to motorist/ped/bike conflicts over shared spaces or ill-thought
path-crossing...

Same thing here. Legally I could be written up every time I ride, but I
just ride for my own safety and not necessarily trying to act like a
car. When I ride 2 towns over to visit a friend I have to go over 2
bridges and many in town streets on the sidewalk. One bridge is a
freeway starting point so taking the lane would be suicide while the
other forces me to ride on the sidewalk. The bridges are so crowded with
cars that they all have a bad attitude and I want nothing to do with
them while on 2 wheels. The loop detectors here sometimes won't pick up
on a motorcycle so forget it on a bicycle. I have to get off the bike
and push the pedestrian crosswalk button.

Quoted message said:

Part of the problem is that authorities tend to respond to problems by
constantly ADDING traffic controls... as if adding more signage, speed
bumps, signals, etc. is ALWAYS the answer. The mall circle drive that loops
around the mall just south of where I live is a perfect example of asinine
traffic control... recently some numbskull apparently got it in his head
that -- for liability reasons, no doubt, or to "slow traffic down" -- it
would be a good idea to put literally SEVEN stop signs along the south
stretch of the drive... this in a half-mile stretch, mind you.

That makes me wonder if anyone even reviewed the proposal or if it was a
one man traffic planning 'God'.

Quoted message said:

It is utterly ridiculous as this is a through route with a 30 MPH speed
limit that has actually always been quite well-respected. There's a need
for ONE stop sign, tops.... the stop signs are all at minor intersections
for the occasional aisle traffic that wants to turn onto to through route...
and one of the stop signs is installed at a CLOSED parking garage so no
crossing traffic or peds -- a stop sign with no useful function whatsoever.

That makes about as much sense as putting stop signs at every alley
between the actual roads. I'm sure if some bonehead thought it up it
might get done.

Quoted message said:

Is it any wonder why people disrespect these signs? It's human nature,
people.

I do not intend to imply that it excuses all bad driver behavior, but this
paradigm needs to be completely re-thought.

brink

Agreed, but by the time it is re-thought the roads have been built, the
buildings are right up to the legal limit, and it would all have to be
torn down and done over. Planners tend to plan for maybe 5 or 10 years
ahead and then wonder why in 5 years time their hot new road layout is
already a traffic mess. The only solution here is more police, and that
is not a good sign of planning. The locals put in a red light camera and
within a few months are bragging about how much revenue it keeps
bringing in. It's been there for about 6 months now and the number of
drivers it catches hasn't gone down.
Smarter drivers needed??
Bill Baka

I'm from Boston and yes, you have no ideyah how wicked bad they ah around
heyah.

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't think this is limited to just California so let's take a poll.
Do drivers in your area drive as bad?
Bill Baka

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

New thread time.
How many riders have been out and noticed the crappy driving habits of the
car crowd? I was out a few days back and just stopped to observe traffic
from the safety of the sidewalk. This was a 3 way stop sign, T type of
intersection. Out of about 30 cars I watched over maybe a ten minute
period, none (0.00) came to a complete stop, and one blew through at about
35 MPH in a 25 zone.
All but one or two went into nearly full throttle to the next stop sign
one block down the road and then slammed on the brakes for the next
rolling stop.
My house is near another of these 'T' type intersections and it goes on
all day long. With gas now over $3.00 a gallon this makes no sense at all,
yet the dipsticks with the gas pedal don't seem to get the point.
So, do we really have a gasoline shortage or is it just that these idiot
motorists are sucking up the fuel with their stupid driving antics?
They sure can turn a 35 MPG car into a 25 MPG car with bad driving habits,
like the stop sign drag races, even if with themselves. I drive my Mazda
in the highest gear possible and shift 1, 3, 5, and it gets really good
mileage around town. Oddly enough when I took my driving test the DMV guy
gave me bad points for oddball shifting, even when I explained what I was
doing.
I don't think this is limited to just California so let's take a poll.
Do drivers in your area drive as bad?
Bill Baka

We used to call this a "kansas city stop". But, lately, it's becoming known
as a California Stop.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 6502 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try SPAMfighter for free now!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

New thread time.
How many riders have been out and noticed the crappy driving habits of
the car crowd?

How many consider their fellow street users might have
to get home fast in the throes of a potty emergency?
Especially if they're wearing white Dockers, and heading
home from Red Lobster.

There really is a lot of nice people out there, even if
some of 'em drive "crappily". What are ya gonna do --
summarily execute them for crappy driving?

Things seem to go in cycles. Last week I had drivers
giving me the courtesy of honking at me from right behind,
to warn me they were about to cut me off.

This week I've had a bunch of arduous pull-outs from
boxed-in parking positions ahead of me. I see what's
going on, hang back, and let them go. Then the driver
sees me laying off, and gives me an appreciative wave,
and I smile and wave back. I like to think they come
away with the feeling that cyclists aren't so bad
after all. It kinda feels good to interact sociably and
friendlily with other folks out and about on the streets,
to cut some slack, and have some slack cut for me.

And if cyclists aren't so bad, maybe drivers aren't either.
Of course there are exceptions in both groups, but screw 'em.
Actually, they end up screwin' themselves.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

New thread time.
How many riders have been out and noticed the crappy driving habits of
the car crowd?

How many consider their fellow street users might have
to get home fast in the throes of a potty emergency?
Especially if they're wearing white Dockers, and heading
home from Red Lobster.

I know where that came from after an 'all you can eat' Chinese outing.
Been there, done that.

Quoted message said:

There really is a lot of nice people out there, even if
some of 'em drive "crappily". What are ya gonna do --
summarily execute them for crappy driving?

Some people that are, in fact, really nice seem to get a 'personality
transplant' when they get behind the wheel.

Quoted message said:

Things seem to go in cycles. Last week I had drivers
giving me the courtesy of honking at me from right behind,
to warn me they were about to cut me off.

This week I've had a bunch of arduous pull-outs from
boxed-in parking positions ahead of me. I see what's
going on, hang back, and let them go. Then the driver
sees me laying off, and gives me an appreciative wave,
and I smile and wave back. I like to think they come
away with the feeling that cyclists aren't so bad
after all. It kinda feels good to interact sociably and
friendlily with other folks out and about on the streets,
to cut some slack, and have some slack cut for me.

I've had the same kind of things happen in the last 2 weeks of being out
on the bike. Some people were almost too nice and we got into a "You go
first" standoff, so I went. It was nice that people were not out with
bad attitudes.

Quoted message said:

And if cyclists aren't so bad, maybe drivers aren't either.
Of course there are exceptions in both groups, but screw 'em.
Actually, they end up screwin' themselves.

I have to agree, since I have been on both sides of the situation.

Quoted message said:

cheers,
Tom

There's still hope.
Bill Baka