Bicycle Friendly Cities

Dan said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle friendly US
city?

I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from the motor
ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to commuting through suburbia.
I had this when I was living in Germany, and now that I'm back in the USA,
I miss it. Do I have to move back to Europe?

There was an article in Bicycling magazine last year rating how bike
friendly cities are.

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-2-16-14593-1,00.html

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle friendly US
city?

I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from the motor
ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to commuting through suburbia.
I had this when I was living in Germany, and now that I'm back in the USA,
I miss it. Do I have to move back to Europe?

You can at least start by going here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cycleways
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_carfree_places

--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org

Dan <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle friendly
US city?

http://bicyclefriendlycommunity.org/

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle
friendly US city?

I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from the
motor ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to commuting
through suburbia. I had this when I was living in Germany, and now
that I'm back in the USA, I miss it. Do I have to move back to
Europe?

There are lots of places that are pretty bike friendly. Try Googling
"bicycle friendly cities" and see what you get. Several organizations
do rankings along these lines.

Portland OR is usually high on the list as is Seattle. Davis CA is
another. Minneapolis/St. Paul is pretty bike friendly and getting more
so.

Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote in news:timmcn-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle
friendly US city?

I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from the
motor ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to commuting
through suburbia. I had this when I was living in Germany, and now
that I'm back in the USA, I miss it. Do I have to move back to
Europe?

Quoted message said:

There are lots of places that are pretty bike friendly. Try Googling
"bicycle friendly cities" and see what you get. Several organizations
do rankings along these lines.

I got that far. These organizations are promoting a lot of what I would
call hype in their zeal to get all the cities on board.

An example of the hype is the situation in Boulder which I just learned
is a heated and dangerous battle between too many cars and too many
bikes. I have a picture of congestion, smog, and heated close calls. That
sounds too much like the ugly situation in London for my tastes.

Anyway, it's hype to me when we only read about platinum, gold, silver
etc status and the good points meriting them and don't see anything
written about the negative points, which in the case of Boulder negate
the whole thing for me.

I got the negative points from a Boulder resident on another newsgroup.

BTW, Boulder has a gold rating. If the resident who responded is right
and Boulder is a gold rating. <shakes head> I can't go by the articles on
the sites with the Agenda 21 zeal.

I need practical response from residents or people who have no interest
in putting the bicycle friendly efforts in glowing terms.

Quoted message said:

Portland OR is usually high on the list as is Seattle. Davis CA is
another. Minneapolis/St. Paul is pretty bike friendly and getting more
so.

It looks like there is a Eugene, Oregon that has separated paths through
some natural areas, the swamp outside of town. That could be relaxing.

http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_story.cfm?st=695230

Minneapolis/St. Paul was one of my earlier ideas, but I hadn't seen
anything written before what you wrote about its bicycle friendliness. Is
that where you live? What I like about that area is that those of
scandinavian descent like myself tend to be low key. I've also heard
that they are pretty outdoorsy there for a northern city.

I hear Davis is a hippy town. Maybe there'd be too many bleeding heart
opinions about minutia to have to suffer through there for my tastes, but
I guess I'll never know without a trip there to get the atmoshere.

I drove through part of Porland a while back. A nice feel but too much
traffic. I didn't notice any separated bicycle ways.

MkTm <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Lo6Nh.337$Rp2.279@trndny04:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle
friendly US city?

I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from the
motor ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to commuting
through suburbia. I had this when I was living in Germany, and now
that I'm back in the USA, I miss it. Do I have to move back to
Europe?

Quoted message said:

There was an article in Bicycling magazine last year rating how bike
friendly cities are.

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-2-16-14593-1,00.html

This looks like a very interesting article. I'll read it carefully, because
there might be some gems in it.

Thanks.

Doc O'Leary <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle
friendly US city?

I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from the
motor ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to commuting
through suburbia. I had this when I was living in Germany, and now
that I'm back in the USA, I miss it. Do I have to move back to
Europe?

Quoted message said:

You can at least start by going here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cycleways
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_carfree_places

This is of passing interest. Thanks.

sally <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle friendly
US city?

Quoted message said:

http://bicyclefriendlycommunity.org/

That's the first one I had found. I like their effort to try to start
whittling down the car culture, but their reviews seem to be only glowing
and not helpful for me to know whether there is a heated battle going on
between auto traffic and cycle traffic, for example, or whether the cycle
paths are maintained during winter, or, or, or. IOW, they don't present the
realistic experience that I need to know.

Dan said:

Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote in news:timmcn-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle
friendly US city?

I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from the
motor ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to commuting
through suburbia.

I thought you said you wanted to find a bike friendly *city* not a nice
ride in the country.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I had this when I was living in Germany, and now
that I'm back in the USA, I miss it. Do I have to move back to
Europe?

Europe is exceptional, but the biggest plus I found in Germany and
Austria was not the inner city bikeways. There are US cities that are
creating that infrastructure now, too. What I appreciated was the bike
friendly train systems that make it possible to go *any*where in Germany
and Austria with your bike - quickly and easily.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are lots of places that are pretty bike friendly. Try Googling
"bicycle friendly cities" and see what you get. Several organizations
do rankings along these lines.

I got that far. These organizations are promoting a lot of what I would
call hype in their zeal to get all the cities on board.

There does seem to be some of that. I'm not sure how Denver got on any list.

Quoted message said:

An example of the hype is the situation in Boulder which I just learned
is a heated and dangerous battle between too many cars and too many
bikes. I have a picture of congestion, smog, and heated close calls. That
sounds too much like the ugly situation in London for my tastes.

And that is nowhere near the truth. It sounds like you took one person's
rant as fact. I have bicycled in Boulder for 20+ years. It has always
been an easy thing to do - and it keeps getting better. A lot of
separate bike paths were created in the last 5 - 10 years that follow
the creeks that come down out of the mountains and head across town
toward the plains. There are underpasses at nearly every street
crossing, so you hardly ever have to stop - making bicycle travel across
town as quick if not quicker than driving. I'm not familiar with this
"dangerous battle with too many cars and bikes." Quite the contrary.
Drivers tend to be very bicycle aware, as many people in Boulder who
drive, also bicycle - or are simply used to seeing bicycles because so
many people do ride. Comparing Boulder to London (where I have also
ridden) is laughably ludicrous.

Boulder's placement on that list is not merely hype, but well deserved.

Besides the off road paths, I have found it easy to share the road with
cars here.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, it's hype to me when we only read about platinum, gold, silver
etc status and the good points meriting them and don't see anything
written about the negative points, which in the case of Boulder negate
the whole thing for me.

Which negative points about Boulder? Bike paths go all over the place.
There are on street bike lanes where there are no paths. The paths are
maintained better than the roads (they are plowed clean by 7 or 8 am on
snow days). Local drivers are very bike conscious.

Quoted message said:

I got the negative points from a Boulder resident on another newsgroup.

One person giving you bad advice and misinformation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Portland OR is usually high on the list as is Seattle. Davis CA is
another. Minneapolis/St. Paul is pretty bike friendly and getting more
so.

It looks like there is a Eugene, Oregon that has separated paths through
some natural areas, the swamp outside of town. That could be relaxing.

Does it get you to work and back? You did say, "a bicycle friendly city."

Quoted message said:

http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_story.cfm?st=695230

Minneapolis/St. Paul was one of my earlier ideas, but I hadn't seen
anything written before what you wrote about its bicycle friendliness. Is
that where you live? What I like about that area is that those of
scandinavian descent like myself tend to be low key. I've also heard
that they are pretty outdoorsy there for a northern city.

I hope you like a *long* *COLD* winter with lots of snow and ice. The
summers are hot, too with high 90's temps and lots of humidity (and
mosquitoes).

Quoted message said:

I hear Davis is a hippy town. Maybe there'd be too many bleeding heart
opinions about minutia to have to suffer through there for my tastes, but
I guess I'll never know without a trip there to get the atmoshere.

I drove through part of Porland a while back. A nice feel but too much
traffic. I didn't notice any separated bicycle ways.

You know, .... it sounds like you will have trouble finding anything to
your liking. Good luck. Perhaps it would be best if you avoid being
miserable in Boulder.

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
*****************************

Chuck Anderson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle
> friendly US city?
>
> I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from
> the motor ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to commuting
> through suburbia.

Quoted message said:

I thought you said you wanted to find a bike friendly *city* not a
nice ride in the country.

In the small towns of Germany where I lived, I had both. Some of the best
jobs are in the small towns. And when the small town didn't have some bit
of modern life I'd sought, then a short 20 minute ride through the marsh
took me to the big town.

The ride to the big town was one of my favorite rides: 7 miles along a
stream, with stretches through wheat fields and the sounds of bullfrogs
with many storks.

I miss it. <sniff>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I had this when I was living in Germany, and now
> that I'm back in the USA, I miss it. Do I have to move back to
> Europe?

Quoted message said:

Europe is exceptional, but the biggest plus I found in Germany and
Austria was not the inner city bikeways.

The inner city of a small town is usually a pedestrian zone. Beautiful. I
love those too. Everyone is on foot. Even bicycles technically have to
walk their bikes. The only motor vehicles are the occasional mercedes
step van of shop owners, taxis, or a big truck delivering the bigger
loads for shops, but always moving very slowly and the pedestrians with
the right of way.

Quoted message said:

What I appreciated was the bike
friendly train systems that make it possible to go *any*where in
Germany and Austria with your bike - quickly and easily.

Yea! Friendly train systems. I didn't even have a car in Europe. I didn't
need one. I went everywhere with the efficient trains, buses, and usually
my bicycle with me, and not only Germany and Austria. I saw most of
Europe that way. Even in the Czech Republic and Hungary, it was quite do-
able, although not quite as elegant.

Quoted message said:

There are US cities that are
creating that infrastructure now, too.

<sigh of relief> Translatlantic moves are kind of expensive. I didn't
want to do it again if I didn't have to. <bg>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are lots of places that are pretty bike friendly. Try
Googling "bicycle friendly cities" and see what you get. Several
organizations do rankings along these lines.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I got that far. These organizations are promoting a lot of what I
would call hype in their zeal to get all the cities on board.

Quoted message said:

There does seem to be some of that. I'm not sure how Denver got on any
list.

OK. Goes with my suspicion.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

An example of the hype is the situation in Boulder which I just
learned is a heated and dangerous battle between too many cars and
too many bikes. I have a picture of congestion, smog, and heated
close calls. That sounds too much like the ugly situation in London
for my tastes.

Quoted message said:

And that is nowhere near the truth.

Great!

Quoted message said:

It sounds like you took one
person's rant as fact. I have bicycled in Boulder for 20+ years.

I did.

Quoted message said:

It
has always been an easy thing to do - and it keeps getting better. A
lot of separate bike paths were created in the last 5 - 10 years that
follow the creeks that come down out of the mountains and head across
town toward the plains. There are underpasses at nearly every street
crossing, so you hardly ever have to stop - making bicycle travel
across town as quick if not quicker than driving. I'm not familiar
with this "dangerous battle with too many cars and bikes."

Well she said the battle was in the newspapers and that cars usually win
the hard way any contests of right away. I read London into it on my own,
because she disappeared from further questioning. I repent my suspiciouns
in the presense of better information. :-)

Quoted message said:

Quite the
contrary. Drivers tend to be very bicycle aware, as many people in
Boulder who drive, also bicycle - or are simply used to seeing
bicycles because so many people do ride. Comparing Boulder to London
(where I have also ridden) is laughably ludicrous.

Great! I repent. I was planning to go there to check it out before the
comments I heard from two people on the other newsgroup. The other person
merely said that if I should move to boulder, the winters are cold and
snowy and her friends moved away again back to SC after only one Winter.
I take SC to mean they were used to the weather of South Carolina.

I have Nokian studded tires and have heard of a Norwegian breathing
device for Winter excercise, so I won't quickly be stumped by Winter. Do
you know if the bicycle ways are maintained in the Winter?

Quoted message said:

Boulder's placement on that list is not merely hype, but well
deserved.

I'm glad to hear it. So, I'm back where I started. I'm resuming my plan
immediate plan to drive to Boulder and check it out. Boulder even sounds
better now than my impression (quite possibly false impression) of Davis,
CA. (Warning: I've never been to Davis either. I'm just going by quite
vague reading materials on Davis as well.)

Quoted message said:

Besides the off road paths, I have found it easy to share the road
with cars here.

Wunderbar!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, it's hype to me when we only read about platinum, gold,
silver etc status and the good points meriting them and don't see
anything written about the negative points, which in the case of
Boulder negate the whole thing for me.

Quoted message said:

Which negative points about Boulder?

I've already repented, I plead.

Quoted message said:

Bike paths go all over the place.
There are on street bike lanes where there are no paths. The paths are
maintained better than the roads (they are plowed clean by 7 or 8 am
on snow days). Local drivers are very bike conscious.

A Winter bicycle commuter's dream! Even much of Europe doesn't seem to do
so well for Winter bicyclists. Actually, there aren't very many Winter
German bicyclists. Germans near the Black Forest usually took up walking
then.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I got the negative points from a Boulder resident on another
newsgroup.

Quoted message said:

One person giving you bad advice and misinformation.

Yup.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Portland OR is usually high on the list as is Seattle. Davis CA is
another. Minneapolis/St. Paul is pretty bike friendly and getting
more so.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It looks like there is a Eugene, Oregon that has separated paths
through some natural areas, the swamp outside of town. That could be
relaxing.

Quoted message said:

Does it get you to work and back? You did say, "a bicycle friendly
city."

Yes. To go to work, I rode down hill out of a residential neighborhood to
the park where I was immediately on bicycle/walking paths with covered
wooden bridges over the Alb River and when I exited the park, I was on
bicycle paths along the river behind industrial complexes, then on
bicycle paths on part of the side walks, which were wide enough that
pedestrians had their own space for walking and bus stop shelters. My
work place was right next to a forest where I often enjoyed walking at
lunch to benches to sit and listen to the birds and watch the butterflies
or to a nearby Aldi's grocer or to nearby bottle shop for fruit or
vegetable juice. Germany is a beautiful, safe, and convenient place to
work compared to what I find here in LA or would likely find in most of
America.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_story.cfm?st=695230

Minneapolis/St. Paul was one of my earlier ideas, but I hadn't seen
anything written before what you wrote about its bicycle
friendliness. Is that where you live? What I like about that area is
that those of scandinavian descent like myself tend to be low key.
I've also heard that they are pretty outdoorsy there for a northern
city.

Quoted message said:

I hope you like a *long* *COLD* winter with lots of snow and ice. The
summers are hot, too with high 90's temps and lots of humidity (and
mosquitoes).

I don't mind the cold, snow, and ice, but I don't care for mosquitos.
What is it with mosquitos and regions that get snow?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I hear Davis is a hippy town. Maybe there'd be too many bleeding
heart opinions about minutia to have to suffer through there for my
tastes, but I guess I'll never know without a trip there to get the
atmoshere.

I said that because people are losing rights to use their own damned
land, wells, and animals, and our country is losing its sovereigty all
because of the satanic globalist Earth worshippers. I'm more of a human
rights and national sovereignty worshipper an Earth worshipper--thank you
very much. I don't suffer fools with the other view gladly, because I
believe the other view leads to evil global government.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I drove through part of Portland a while back. A nice feel but too
much traffic. I didn't notice any separated bicycle ways.

I probably didn't do Portland justice, since I hadn't brought my bicycle
to try to find any bicycle paths that would be out of sight the motorized
ways. I didn't even look for a tourist information office. There was too
much traffic, so all I wanted to do was get back no the freeway and
escape it.

Quoted message said:

You know, .... it sounds like you will have trouble finding anything
to your liking. Good luck. Perhaps it would be best if you avoid being
miserable in Boulder.

And the battle for the sovereigty of the individual and the nations rages
on. I do have one thing in common with you greenies though. I hate the
car culture.

Dan said:

Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote in news:timmcn-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle
friendly US city?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from the
motor ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to commuting
through suburbia. I had this when I was living in Germany, and now
that I'm back in the USA, I miss it. Do I have to move back to
Europe?

There are lots of places that are pretty bike friendly. Try Googling
"bicycle friendly cities" and see what you get. Several organizations
do rankings along these lines.

I got that far. These organizations are promoting a lot of what I would
call hype in their zeal to get all the cities on board.

An example of the hype is the situation in Boulder which I just learned
is a heated and dangerous battle between too many cars and too many
bikes. I have a picture of congestion, smog, and heated close calls. That
sounds too much like the ugly situation in London for my tastes.

Anyway, it's hype to me when we only read about platinum, gold, silver
etc status and the good points meriting them and don't see anything
written about the negative points, which in the case of Boulder negate
the whole thing for me.

I got the negative points from a Boulder resident on another newsgroup.

BTW, Boulder has a gold rating. If the resident who responded is right
and Boulder is a gold rating. <shakes head> I can't go by the articles on
the sites with the Agenda 21 zeal.

I need practical response from residents or people who have no interest
in putting the bicycle friendly efforts in glowing terms.

Quoted message said:

Portland OR is usually high on the list as is Seattle. Davis CA is
another. Minneapolis/St. Paul is pretty bike friendly and getting more
so.

It looks like there is a Eugene, Oregon that has separated paths through
some natural areas, the swamp outside of town. That could be relaxing.

http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_story.cfm?st=695230

Minneapolis/St. Paul was one of my earlier ideas, but I hadn't seen
anything written before what you wrote about its bicycle friendliness. Is
that where you live? What I like about that area is that those of
scandinavian descent like myself tend to be low key. I've also heard
that they are pretty outdoorsy there for a northern city.

I hear Davis is a hippy town. Maybe there'd be too many bleeding heart
opinions about minutia to have to suffer through there for my tastes, but
I guess I'll never know without a trip there to get the atmoshere.

It seems to me that you're putting political, lifestyle, and bigoted
criteria (people of Scandinavian descent are...WTF?) into your
decision making process. Sounds to me like you're the one that's hard
to please as there are a number of cities where riding bikes work out
just fine.

How about this... Hop on the bike, check out a whole bunch of cities,
and write up a blog. Make sure to rate each city on your
discriminatory...excuse me...discriminating criteria. That way people
will hopefully be able to filter out your bias in a way that you are
unable to filter out other people's biases.

R

"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Dan said:

Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote in news:timmcn-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

> Where would be a good source of information to locate a bicycle
> friendly US city?

Quoted message said:

> I want to commute to work on bicycle ways that are separated from
> the motor ways. I prefer commuting through countryside to
> commuting through suburbia. I had this when I was living in
> Germany, and now that I'm back in the USA, I miss it. Do I have to
> move back to Europe?
There are lots of places that are pretty bike friendly. Try
Googling "bicycle friendly cities" and see what you get. Several
organizations do rankings along these lines.

I got that far. These organizations are promoting a lot of what I
would call hype in their zeal to get all the cities on board.

An example of the hype is the situation in Boulder which I just
learned is a heated and dangerous battle between too many cars and
too many bikes. I have a picture of congestion, smog, and heated
close calls. That sounds too much like the ugly situation in London
for my tastes.

Anyway, it's hype to me when we only read about platinum, gold,
silver etc status and the good points meriting them and don't see
anything written about the negative points, which in the case of
Boulder negate the whole thing for me.

I got the negative points from a Boulder resident on another
newsgroup.

BTW, Boulder has a gold rating. If the resident who responded is
right and Boulder is a gold rating. <shakes head> I can't go by the
articles on the sites with the Agenda 21 zeal.

I need practical response from residents or people who have no
interest in putting the bicycle friendly efforts in glowing terms.

Quoted message said:

Portland OR is usually high on the list as is Seattle. Davis CA is
another. Minneapolis/St. Paul is pretty bike friendly and getting
more so.

It looks like there is a Eugene, Oregon that has separated paths
through some natural areas, the swamp outside of town. That could be
relaxing.

http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_story.cfm?st=695230

Minneapolis/St. Paul was one of my earlier ideas, but I hadn't seen
anything written before what you wrote about its bicycle
friendliness. Is that where you live? What I like about that area is
that those of scandinavian descent like myself tend to be low key.
I've also heard that they are pretty outdoorsy there for a northern
city.

I hear Davis is a hippy town. Maybe there'd be too many bleeding
heart opinions about minutia to have to suffer through there for my
tastes, but I guess I'll never know without a trip there to get the
atmoshere.

It seems to me that you're putting political, lifestyle,

Yes, I am.

Quoted message said:

and bigoted

No, bigoted is when you tear other people down. It is not when you state
your own preference. I'm not the one saying that people are not allowed
their preferences. You are the one that is saying that. Look. You just
did it. You just said that I am not allowed to have my preference.

Quoted message said:

criteria (people of Scandinavian descent are...WTF?)

What's wrong with that? Scandinavians are even keel. The Italians would
perhaps say about them, "Oh, those Scandinavians are icey. They have no
*PASSION*. What boring people. Stone faced trolls." They can think that
about me if they want, but apparently you don't allow them to.

And to me, the Italians are hot blooded, jumping to a heated verbal fight
for the fun of it, and aggressive players of chicken on the road. Again,
I have the right to my impressions, if that's what I think. It's not, but
if I did, it would my right. I like the Italians too, just fine. But when
it comes to where I want to live and work, I'd probably live to a riper
old age if I stayed with my even keeled kinsmen.

Of course, the tendencies are just broad brush strokes that fail to take
into acount the texture layed over them. There were certain ones of us
Vikings who were total berserkers wielding an axe and a sword in battle
with no thought to their life and limb. That doesn't seem even keel. So,
on every broad brush stroke there can be texture.

That's why I use the word 'tendency.' That makes what I'm saying useful
instead of misleading.

It's not my fault if you are intolerant of broad brush strokes described
as 'tendency.'

Here's another one for you. Women tend not to be even keeled. Are you
going to fight me on that one too? Note the word, 'tend.'

Quoted message said:

into your
decision making process.

<shrug> Nothing wrong with that. If I decide women are too skizoid for
me, I can be gay, can't I? Isn't that what you liberals preach?

I'm not gay, but I've seen their tendencies. They tend to fantisize about
men instead of women. Are you saying tendencies don't exist?

What happened to free speech? Free thought? Orwell was right. This world
is rampant with corporate wars, double think, new speak, and thought
police.

Who put you in charge? Komrad Marx? You are supressing reality, dude.

Quoted message said:

Sounds to me like you're the one that's hard
to please as there are a number of cities where riding bikes work out
just fine.

I'm not hard to please. I just want a laid back background for my life
without short fuses going off all around me all of the time--like your
short fuse.

Quoted message said:

How about this... Hop on the bike, check out a whole bunch of cities,
and write up a blog.

Thanks for the invitation. Are you saying you like my writing style?

Quoted message said:

Make sure to rate each city on your
discriminatory...excuse me...discriminating criteria.

OK. I have no problem with that. I am discriminating. That's a good
attribute. I admit it. Everyone should do it and admit to it.

Now discriminating is a different thing from bigotry. Bigotry is what you
are doing. You are attacking me for the way I am.

Quoted message said:

That way people
will hopefully be able to filter out your bias in a way that you are
unable to filter out other people's biases.

And they should. That's called discrimination. They should discriminate
what I'm saying.

On Mar 26, 5:24 pm, Dan <[email hidden]> wrote:

I apologize. I hadn't realized you were just a lost soul looking for
someone to listen and a place to live. And little idea about how to
achieve either. Good luck with it.

R

"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I apologize.

You can't feel that way, if you immediately follow it with an offense.

Quoted message said:

I hadn't realized you were just a lost soul looking for
someone to listen and a place to live.

That's personal and since it is public, it is slander.

What I did was to put tendencies on groups. I didn't attack a particular
person in public.

Quoted message said:

And little idea about how to
achieve either.

I already achieved it. I gave my life to Jesus Christ. He is the god that
saves lost sheep.

According to scripture, if you don't know you are lost, He doesn't save
you. You have to know you are lost and you have to know that He is the only
savior, or He doesn't save you.

Quoted message said:

Good luck with it.

Luck is an anonomous bribe from the seducing spirits sent by Lucifer/Satan.
I always refuse luck. I only accept blessings my lord, but they won't be
Trojan Horses.

But if luck is your stock and trade, then good luck figuring out how to
sneak into heaven, because the scriptures show it impossible for thieves
to steal their way in without using the door. Jesus Christ is the only door
to heaven.

Dan said:

I said that because people are losing rights to use their own damned
land, wells, and animals, and our country is losing its sovereigty all
because of the satanic globalist Earth worshippers. I'm more of a human
rights and national sovereignty worshipper an Earth worshipper--thank you
very much. I don't suffer fools with the other view gladly, because I
believe the other view leads to evil global government.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

And the battle for the sovereigty of the individual and the nations rages
on. I do have one thing in common with you greenies though. I hate the
car culture.

Pardon my intrusion, but you /almost/ sound Republican. Almost. If that's
the case, and if you really can't stand left-coast liberal tendencies, I'll
toss out an off-the-wall choice for you.

Grand Rapids, MI.

You won't find it on the major bicycle-friendly cities list, but I spent 24
years of my life there, and it's not a bad town to bike around. The hills on
the Grand River downtown are definitely challenging (but a blast to bomb
down), and you'll need to like snow (GR is downwind of Lake Michigan, so it
gets a lot), but it's pretty compact for a city of 200K, and is mostly built
on a classic grid, leaving lots of alternate routes that stay out of traffic.

It's also in the heart of one of the more conservative areas of the country.
It's the boyhood home (and last resting place) of Gerald Ford. It's very
much a "family values" kind of place, if that's what you're looking for; not
fire-and-brimstone, but it's certainly no Babylon. This is definitely Red
State country, though the politicos tend toward the moderate side, a la Ford.

It doesn't have a lot of off-road paths, and no Fussgaengerzonen (unless the
city changes its mind and makes Monroe Center a mall again), but it might
just be your cup of tea [1]. It's even got a couple token "funky" neighbor-
hoods, just to round things out (I'm an Easttown kinda guy myself, but I'm
biased; I grew up near there.

[1] It wasn't my cup of tea, which is part of why I now live near Chicago,
and don't get back to GR very often, even though my dad still lives there.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

Kristian M Zoerhoff <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I said that because people are losing rights to use their own damned
land, wells, and animals, and our country is losing its sovereigty
all because of the satanic globalist Earth worshippers. I'm more of a
human rights and national sovereignty worshipper an Earth
worshipper--thank you very much. I don't suffer fools with the other
view gladly, because I believe the other view leads to evil global
government.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

And the battle for the sovereigty of the individual and the nations
rages on. I do have one thing in common with you greenies though. I
hate the car culture.

Quoted message said:

Pardon my intrusion, but you /almost/ sound Republican. Almost.

Maybe what 'Republican' used to mean.

Today, both major parties act against the US Constitution. They are two
sock puppets on two hands of globalists. European globalists act in this
country through the Council on Foreign Relations, the CIA, the Federal
Reserve, and the two major parties.

Therefore, I usually vote according to the Consitutional Party, unless a
similar party has a clearly better chance of winning.

Quoted message said:

If
that's the case, and if you really can't stand left-coast liberal
tendencies, I'll toss out an off-the-wall choice for you.

I can stand them, it's just that I don't want to live in a 'stoney'
mission field. That's an allusion to the parable of the sower.

Quoted message said:

Grand Rapids, MI.

Quoted message said:

You won't find it on the major bicycle-friendly cities list, but I
spent 24 years of my life there, and it's not a bad town to bike
around. The hills on the Grand River downtown are definitely
challenging (but a blast to bomb down), and you'll need to like snow
(GR is downwind of Lake Michigan, so it gets a lot), but it's pretty
compact for a city of 200K, and is mostly built on a classic grid,
leaving lots of alternate routes that stay out of traffic.

It's also in the heart of one of the more conservative areas of the
country. It's the boyhood home (and last resting place) of Gerald
Ford. It's very much a "family values" kind of place, if that's what
you're looking for; not fire-and-brimstone, but it's certainly no
Babylon. This is definitely Red State country, though the politicos
tend toward the moderate side, a la Ford.

Thanks. Sounds good. I'll look into it.

I could make disciples there. That what churches are supposed to do, but
most of them aren't doing.

Quoted message said:

It doesn't have a lot of off-road paths, and no Fussgaengerzonen

You know a little German or more. :-)

Quoted message said:

(unless the city changes its mind and makes Monroe Center a mall
again), but it might just be your cup of tea [1]. It's even got a
couple token "funky" neighbor- hoods, just to round things out (I'm an
Easttown kinda guy myself, but I'm biased; I grew up near there.

The mission field? LOL.

Quoted message said:

[1] It wasn't my cup of tea, which is part of why I now live near
Chicago, and don't get back to GR very often, even though my dad still
lives there.

How did you see it. Stuffy religion without being salt and light? That's
one of the possibilities when it comes to religious tradition in this
country. That's not one of the better mission fields. A lot of Europe has
that kind of religion without the salt and light. If that's the case in
Grand Rapids, then I wouldn't be too interested in that kind of
conservatism.

I think I would prefer a liberal area, if it is not to regimented, to the
stuffy kind of conservatism. I might make a business out of tutoring
students in a university town for the opportunity to sow the seeds of the
good news of Jesus Christ.

I would take a teaching position, but then school may exert control over
me against witnessing by threatening my position.

This is not your father's America. <g>

An events watcher guest on Coast to Coast AM just now said that it looks
to him like we are going to have an agressive military draft soon. I hate
to see Americans being forced to fight in Orwellian corporate wars. He
described a situation where the draft could be taken to civilian
companies and they'd just draft everyone in a civilian company. That's
hard to believe, but today anything seems possible.

So, as you can see, I'm not a modern Republican.

Dan said:

Kristian M Zoerhoff <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Pardon my intrusion, but you /almost/ sound Republican. Almost.

Maybe what 'Republican' used to mean.

Today, both major parties act against the US Constitution. They are two
sock puppets on two hands of globalists. European globalists act in this
country through the Council on Foreign Relations, the CIA, the Federal
Reserve, and the two major parties.

Therefore, I usually vote according to the Consitutional Party, unless a
similar party has a clearly better chance of winning.

I sense that you and I would not do well if locked in a small room together
for a long period of time :-) That's OK, though, this is a bike group, not
a politics group.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If
that's the case, and if you really can't stand left-coast liberal
tendencies, I'll toss out an off-the-wall choice for you.

I can stand them, it's just that I don't want to live in a 'stoney'
mission field. That's an allusion to the parable of the sower.

I know it well.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It doesn't have a lot of off-road paths, and no Fussgaengerzonen

You know a little German or more. :-)

Nur ein bisschen. 5 years' worth in high school and college, but it's faded
away, sadly. Doesn't help that I've only been to Deutschland once in the 10
years I've been out of school now.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(unless the city changes its mind and makes Monroe Center a mall
again), but it might just be your cup of tea [1]. It's even got a
couple token "funky" neighbor- hoods, just to round things out (I'm an
Easttown kinda guy myself, but I'm biased; I grew up near there.

The mission field? LOL.

Perhaps. If not, there used to be a killer Lebanese grocery and deli there.
I think they were on Wealthy St, just west of Lake St. My favorite bar
(Mulligan's) was over there, too, next to the Intersection bar (which moved,
last I heard, all the way downtown).

If I had to move back to GR, I'd opt for that area, or just to the east, in
East Grand Rapids. There's more conventional shopping just down Wealthy in
downtown East GR (Gaslight Village), and the ride around Reeds Lake was a
summer tradition for my sister and I for years.

Dang, now I'm gettin' all nostalgic and stuff.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[1] It wasn't my cup of tea, which is part of why I now live near
Chicago, and don't get back to GR very often, even though my dad still
lives there.

How did you see it. Stuffy religion without being salt and light? That's
one of the possibilities when it comes to religious tradition in this
country. That's not one of the better mission fields.

Stuffy, but remember the old saw: Familiarity breeds contempt.

Quoted message said:

So, as you can see, I'm not a modern Republican.

Definitely not.

Good luck in your search. May you find an abode that suits you.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

Kristian M Zoerhoff <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pardon my intrusion, but you /almost/ sound Republican. Almost.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe what 'Republican' used to mean.

Today, both major parties act against the US Constitution. They are
two sock puppets on two hands of globalists. European globalists act
in this country through the Council on Foreign Relations, the CIA,
the Federal Reserve, and the two major parties.

Therefore, I usually vote according to the Consitutional Party,
unless a similar party has a clearly better chance of winning.

Quoted message said:

I sense that you and I would not do well if locked in a small room
together for a long period of time :-) That's OK, though, this is a
bike group, not a politics group.

By the way. Germany just about killed me while I was doing a Rhine tour
from Amsterdam to the Rhine Falls. I saw first hand how Germany treats
victims of violent crime. This treatment tuned me into the consiracies of
modern society.

A German hunter had shot me off my bicycle near BASF just outside
Ludwigshafen, Germany. The hunter's insurance was a big insurance
conglomerate, an alliance of a half dozen cities. His insurance cheated
me out of 7 years of my life while I learned about long tentacled
insurance conspiracies against victims.

This point in my life is also when I first learned how the different
facets of societies prey financially on victims like sharks in a feeding
frenzy at a time in the life of a person when he is at his weakest
physically and financially.

My education in conspiracy fact went on from that bicycling misadventure,
but I didn't bicycle long distances as much after that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If
that's the case, and if you really can't stand left-coast liberal
tendencies, I'll toss out an off-the-wall choice for you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can stand them, it's just that I don't want to live in a 'stoney'
mission field. That's an allusion to the parable of the sower.

Quoted message said:

I know it well.

Did you have lightless, saltless religion pushed down your throat? I
didn't. My parents are pretty much hostile to Christ.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It doesn't have a lot of off-road paths, and no Fussgaengerzonen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You know a little German or more. :-)

Quoted message said:

Nur ein bisschen. 5 years' worth in high school and college, but it's
faded away, sadly. Doesn't help that I've only been to Deutschland
once in the 10 years I've been out of school now.

I only studied German one semester in University, but my highschool
language was French--three years.

In any case, they don't really speak French or German on the streets as
Americans learn it in school. Germans can have a lot of trouble
understanding Germans from a different region or a different generation
for that matter. <g>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(unless the city changes its mind and makes Monroe Center a mall
again), but it might just be your cup of tea [1]. It's even got a
couple token "funky" neighbor- hoods, just to round things out (I'm
an Easttown kinda guy myself, but I'm biased; I grew up near there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The mission field? LOL.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps. If not, there used to be a killer Lebanese grocery and deli

I have always preferred the way mediterannean traditions treat food to
the industrialized Western ways.

Quoted message said:

there. I think they were on Wealthy St, just west of Lake St. My
favorite bar (Mulligan's) was over there, too, next to the

Sounds like an Irish bar. If so, I could understand why. They'd have some
of the best beers available in US America. :-)

When I was in Germany, all of the beers were good, so I didn't need to go
to the Irish pubs so often.

An owner of a German Irish pub told me the Irish beers are actually
brewed in Belgium. I had asked because I was wondering if the Irish
fluoridated water would be used in making the Irish beers. Belgium water
isn't fluoridated, so I was safe.

I don't know where US America destination Irish beers would be made.

Quoted message said:

Intersection bar (which moved, last I heard, all the way downtown).

And these are the little things. Much bigger things are changing so much
all over the country, even though they tend to be grossly underplayed in
the media.

Quoted message said:

If I had to move back to GR, I'd opt for that area, or just to the
east, in East Grand Rapids. There's more conventional shopping just
down Wealthy in downtown East GR (Gaslight Village), and the ride
around Reeds Lake was a summer tradition for my sister and I for
years.

I wish my brother and I had had a more natural setting to grow up in. I
don't think the suburbs are as good for children as they are cracked up
to be. It's all houses, fences, parental strife, and impatient cars
trying to blitz out of the sprawl toward the workplace and the cultural
centers.

Quoted message said:

Dang, now I'm gettin' all nostalgic and stuff.

Where I grew up, the the traffic has become unbearable. Which seems worse
having just returned from Germany. I'm too spoiled by German bicycle
commutes to hassle LA stop and go freeway commutes now.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[1] It wasn't my cup of tea, which is part of why I now live near
Chicago, and don't get back to GR very often, even though my dad
still lives there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How did you see it. Stuffy religion without being salt and light?
That's one of the possibilities when it comes to religious tradition
in this country. That's not one of the better mission fields.

Quoted message said:

Stuffy, but remember the old saw: Familiarity breeds contempt.

And, similar: No one is a prophet in his own town. Anyway, familiar
surroundings can make one stuck in the early socialization, which these
days it is often far better to outgrow.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, as you can see, I'm not a modern Republican.

Quoted message said:

Definitely not.
Good luck in your search. May you find an abode that suits you.

Thanks to both. :-)

I found a city-facts web site with discussions. People are getting some
interesting questions answered there in a thorough way. Looks promising.

The question I'll pose there will include more of my criteria than just
bicycle friendliness--stuff like a location having not yet seen a real
estate boom.

Latest issue of the magazine published by L.A.W./B. is an anthem to
the Bicycle Friendly Cities campaign.

Funny, I used to live in one of them (for about 15 years). Nowhere
does the squib mention that the position of city bicycle coordinator,
formerly slotted in the Traffic dept, was moved to Parks, then swapped
out for Golf Course Director. The BC position itself became part-time
and minimum wage. Not too long ago it became a student internship
revolving door, with the incumbent interviewing potential
replacements.

But said jurisdiction sure has some nice bike lanes.

HTH

--Karen D.