Indoor Quality Time Limit

wiredued said:

I have been trying to find the limit for indoor SST duration I did a low 76% FTP for 1.5 hours on the KK is that about it for an L3 nonstop indoor trainer ride? Would the same effort get 3 hours outdoors?

I don't think so. I've heard and read that a certain amount of time on the trainer equals a greater amount of time on the road, mostly because you don't get to coast on the trainer I think. But, isn't 240 Watts 240 Watts, whether it's inside or outside? I'm interested to see what people have to say about this. I think the ability to know what your power output is will alleviate this misconception.(if it is one)

wiredued said:

...I did a low 76% FTP for 1.5 hours on the KK is that about it for an L3 nonstop indoor trainer ride? ...

IMHO the limit to indoor trainer time is more mental than physical if you're keeping yourself cool and hydrated. I've done two and two and a half hour sessions when I was highly motivated, but typically stop at an hour and a half. Did you catch Postalbag's thread a while back: cyclingforums.comt 378317 15 1.htmlOpen ↗ ? He did three consecutive indoor trainer hours at 90% of FTP. That's pushing the sanity envelope, but I doubt you'd have any trouble holding a lot more than an IF of .76 for several hours outdoors.

The last couple of weeks have warmed up enough to allow the first outdoor rides since October 🙂 and my IF for two and a half to three hour rides has hovered around .82 and they felt real comfortable at that pace. .76 may feel like hell when stuck indoors or you they might feel great but you get bored after an hour and a half (I often do). But I don't think the limit has anything to do with physiology or your fitness as much as it reflects on how boring indoor rides are. Personally I avoid L3 work indoors for just that reason, if I'm only going to get an hour and a half to two hours max, I might as well do L4 work and get more bang for my buck.

I bet you'll ride harder and longer when you get outdoors,
-Dave

wiredued said:

I have been trying to find the limit for indoor SST duration I did a low 76% FTP for 1.5 hours on the KK is that about it for an L3 nonstop indoor trainer ride? Would the same effort get 3 hours outdoors?

isn't 76% of FTP somewhat too low for SST, wouldn't that be about level 1...

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

isn't 76% of FTP somewhat too low for SST, wouldn't that be about level 1...

ric

My very thoughts. I do my L3 workouts at 90%+ FTP...

ric_stern/RST said:

isn't 76% of FTP somewhat too low for SST, wouldn't that be about level 1...

ric

I find that indoor trainer time is more productive PROVIDED one works at a decent level (85%+ of FTP). Look at Kilo Joules per hour indoors versus outdoors for an easy comparison.

IMHO 76% of FTP is L2 and is wothwhile for very long rides outside for endurance work but inside I either go very easy if I am feeling low or it's a recovery day or I really work hard, as the mental side takes a beating inside and wasting time indoors is counterproductive for maintainig training enthusiasm.
Best,
Bill Black

Bill Black said:

I find that indoor trainer time is more productive PROVIDED one works at a decent level (85%+ of FTP). Look at Kilo Joules per hour indoors versus outdoors for an easy comparison.

IMHO 76% of FTP is L2 and is wothwhile for very long rides outside for endurance work but inside I either go very easy if I am feeling low or it's a recovery day or I really work hard, as the mental side takes a beating inside and wasting time indoors is counterproductive for maintainig training enthusiasm.
Best,
Bill Black

hi Bill,
Yes I have the same cut-off point at AP of 0.85FTP or mid Level 3. If I can't hold that I generally make it a short and/or easy day.

This winter I've managed three separate 3-hr rides around 0.85FTP on the CT (custom long climbing course) but it wasn't fun.

Down around 0.76 (bottom end of L3), if motivated, hydrated and fuelled I figure I COULD ride for several hours. And then commit suicide 😄

Do you have a chart for that ride with your FTP at the time? I'd like to see how wide the power range was. I think I may have fatigued myself by focusing on one target to long. I might be able to duplicate it on the KK this may give me a good feel for an outdoor SST ride without a Powertap...Thanks

rmur17 said:

This winter I've managed three separate 3-hr rides around 0.85FTP on the CT (custom long climbing course) but it wasn't fun. 😄

wiredued said:

I have been trying to find the limit for indoor SST duration I did a low 76% FTP for 1.5 hours on the KK is that about it for an L3 nonstop indoor trainer ride?

I'm sure we all have our own limits. This winter my weekend KK trainer rides were 2hr at 85-90% FTP (AP and NP). These rides could either be steady power, or some routine of periods over/under FTP which averaged out to fall into upper L3 (SST).

wiredued said:

Would the same effort get 3 hours outdoors?

Outdoors, I could do 3+ hours at .85-.90 IF (talking NP now) and feel about as bad as the 2hr indoor rides, if that's what you're asking. Indoors, my back and butt seemed to limit the amount of time I wanted to sit there and pedal.

wiredued said:

Do you have a chart for that ride with your FTP at the time? I'd like to see how wide the power range was. I think I may have fatigued myself by focusing on one target to long. I might be able to duplicate it on the KK this may give me a good feel for an outdoor SST ride without a Powertap...Thanks

yep I have the latest .wko file which you can have if you want. PM me your email.

No point in posting the chart here as a 3:25hr total ride is pretty small.

I can tell you the power range was nearly all between 270 and 340W. Overall P=311W/313N x 2:59:15 (100k CT climbing course: 5k rolling-flat and 15k shallow climbs). Generally I rode the flats around 270W and the climbs around 325W.

IF was actually 0.846 (FT=370) so I exaggerated a little :o

The other couple of rides were about 10-12W lower in power. However, last year was about 40W lower 🙂

That was all I needed thanks again.

rmur17 said:

yep I have the latest .wko file which you can have if you want. PM me your email.

No point in posting the chart here as a 3:25hr total ride is pretty small.

I can tell you the power range was nearly all between 270 and 340W. Overall P=311W/313N x 2:59:15 (100k CT climbing course: 5k rolling-flat and 15k shallow climbs). Generally I rode the flats around 270W and the climbs around 325W.

IF was actually 0.846 (FT=370) so I exaggerated a little :o

The other couple of rides were about 10-12W lower in power. However, last year was about 40W lower 🙂

Does the .85 IF on the trainer include warm up and down?
This is addressed generally.

DesFlurane said:

Does the .85 IF on the trainer include warm up and down?
This is addressed generally.

Not in my case, although my w/u and c/d are so short relative to the duration of an SST trainer ride that including them only changes the overall ride averages by a few watts.

frenchyge said:

Not in my case, although my w/u and c/d are so short relative to the duration of an SST trainer ride that including them only changes the overall ride averages by a few watts.

same here. I record what I call CORE workout metrics only (excluding wu and cd).

rmur17 said:

same here. I record what I call CORE workout metrics only (excluding wu and cd).

I categorize my workouts by the core metrics you describe, but I record everything for purposes of calorie estimation and for use in the Performance Manager (TSS/CTL/ATL/TSB). Indoor workouts are pretty steady with short WU and CD so IF of the entire workout isn't much different than IF for the SST/L4 work. Outdoor stuff is more variable with longer WU and CD but I agree with Frenchyge and rmur, the workout is defined by the core stuff not the overall IF.

-Dave

That's all good then.

frenchyge said:

Not in my case, although my w/u and c/d are so short relative to the duration of an SST trainer ride that including them only changes the overall ride averages by a few watts.

By removing wu and cd, average power and IF will increase and TSS will decrease.

On indoor rides, I keep wu and cd because the average power of wu and cd is generally higher than on a road ride.

On road rides, I trim only what looks like noodling.

Either way, the important fact to understand is that CPS captures all the peak values and that TSS is more important than average power.