Wiggle - watch out!

AP said:

This has been mentioned before, but I thought I might
mention...bought some lube from Wiggle using my cc - the very next
day my details were to pay £245-odd to DHL. Coincidence? Hmmm.
Bloody nuisance anyway, that's for sure.

"Many of the cyclists active in online forums are Wiggle customers. A few of
them have experienced credit card fraud. Wiggle is a common link between the
cyclists, not the fraud!"

- Wiggle

Pete Biggs said:

AP said:

This has been mentioned before, but I thought I might
mention...bought some lube from Wiggle using my cc - the very next
day my details were to pay £245-odd to DHL. Coincidence? Hmmm.
Bloody nuisance anyway, that's for sure.

"Many of the cyclists active in online forums are Wiggle customers. A few of
them have experienced credit card fraud. Wiggle is a common link between the
cyclists, not the fraud!"

- Wiggle

That's a fair point. If 80% of on-line cycling forum users are Wiggle
customers, and 10% experience credit card fraud, it is easy to draw
the wrong conclusions.

So long as Visa trust you as a merchant, I will trust you as a
customer. If is, after all, Visa who lose out to fraud, not your
customer.

I'd hate to see a good on-line retailer run into problems based on
faulty evidence.

Tom Crispin said:

So long as Visa trust you as a merchant, I will trust you as a
customer. If is, after all, Visa who lose out to fraud, not your
customer.

The last I heard, for 'customer not present' transactions it's the merchant who
loses out.

Tom Crispin said:

Pete Biggs said:

AP said:

This has been mentioned before, but I thought I might
mention...bought some lube from Wiggle using my cc - the very next
day my details were to pay £245-odd to DHL. Coincidence? Hmmm.
Bloody nuisance anyway, that's for sure.

"Many of the cyclists active in online forums are Wiggle customers.
A few of them have experienced credit card fraud. Wiggle is a common
link between the cyclists, not the fraud!"

- Wiggle

That's a fair point. If 80% of on-line cycling forum users are Wiggle
customers, and 10% experience credit card fraud, it is easy to draw
the wrong conclusions.

So long as Visa trust you as a merchant, I will trust you as a
customer. If is, after all, Visa who lose out to fraud, not your
customer.

I'd hate to see a good on-line retailer run into problems based on
faulty evidence.

Agreed, and there's no need because even those who don't trust Wiggle with
their credit card can pay by PayPal. Or perhaps a debit card? Not one of
the "fraud" stories has mentioned a debit card.

Ok there's less protection with a debit card - but not a lot to loose if you
don't keep a lot in your current account (and hopfefully your bank would
help with any fraud). Nowdays it's quick and easy to transfer money to and
from a separate safer account - to minimise the amount of money in your
main, more vulnerable account.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Agreed, and there's no need because even those who don't trust Wiggle with
their credit card can pay by PayPal. Or perhaps a debit card? Not one of
the "fraud" stories has mentioned a debit card.

My debit card was used for two fraudulant transactions (£300 spent with O2
and £200 with a shoe shop) a couple of days after purchasing from Wiggle.
I only use PayPal when purchasing from them now, but I shop elsewhere
unless I have to use Wiggle.

"AP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This has been mentioned before, but I thought I might mention...bought some
lube from Wiggle using my cc - the very next day my details were to pay
£245-odd to DHL. Coincidence? Hmmm. Bloody nuisance anyway, that's for sure.

I have happily bought from Wiggles for several years and have never had any
problems. I find them excellent suppliers, easy to ask questions of, with
excellent delivery times and I find that this continued "anti wiggle" theme
might perhaps be an attempt at an "attack"

I check all my accounts, on line, as a matter of course several times a week.
Those who don't are, perhaps a tad foolish!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Phil R said:

My debit card was used for two fraudulant transactions (£300 spent with O2
and £200 with a shoe shop) a couple of days after purchasing from Wiggle.
I only use PayPal when purchasing from them now, but I shop elsewhere
unless I have to use Wiggle.

I barely look at Wiggle nowadays, not because of this fraud discussion
but because their pricing seems to be far less competitive than it
once was. I've had a twenty quid Wiggle voucher here for a month or
more and I can't find anything they sell that I need (read want) that
I can't find cheaper elsewhere.

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

Call me Bob said:

I barely look at Wiggle nowadays, not because of this fraud discussion
but because their pricing seems to be far less competitive than it
once was. I've had a twenty quid Wiggle voucher here for a month or
more and I can't find anything they sell that I need (read want) that
I can't find cheaper elsewhere.

I still find they're the cheapest for quite a few things when the free
postage and 5% discount is taken into account.

I use them more for accessories and small widgets*. They've always been
always been expensive for most major road bike components.

* always supplied in a huge jiffy bag. Get some small bags you silly
people!

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Ok there's less protection with a debit card - but not a lot to loose if you
don't keep a lot in your current account (and hopfefully your bank would
help with any fraud). Nowdays it's quick and easy to transfer money to and
from a separate safer account - to minimise the amount of money in your
main, more vulnerable account.

I've had money taken from my debit card a couple of times (once where
I'm assuming a restaurant was at fault, and once where I'm not sure
where the link happened.), and the bank's always been quick to repay the
money and fees paid on account of the fraudulent transaction.

A

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Pete Biggs wrote:

Quoted message said:

I've had money taken from my debit card a couple of times

AOL; I was accosted by big burly security types (well almost) in
Woolworths yesterday after my card was similarly after using Wiggle
;-(

I emailed Wiggle on 23 March to tell them about this topic.

This is the reply I received on Monday

"
Thanks for your email,

I've seen the rumours on the internet but it's great that you took the time to
tell us about it. The trouble is that the more we protest our innocence, the
more guilty we look.

We have always set out to be the kind of company that we would want to deal
with if we were making an online purchase. Consequently, we've taken security
and customer service very seriously indeed and appreciate the trust placed in
us by all of our customers when giving us their card details.

Our security procedures are constantly reviewed and upgraded. We feel that our
current practice is exemplary and is as near impenetrable as existing
technology will allow. Unfortunately, I can't discuss precise details for fear
of giving devious minds some useful hints but I would like to assure you that
we NEVER hold your card number in un-encrypted format and our staff have no
access to your card details.

The UK is currently suffering an epidemic of card-holder not present credit
card fraud and millions of people have been victims of it. You may have seen
the recent Watchdog programme on TV which exposed lapses in basic security
committed by the banks themselves.

By far the most common explanation for internet related fraud is that the
users computer is infected with a "Trojan". This collects and transmits all
the information you enter onto the computer to a hacker so that the first time
a credit card is used, the hacker receives full details even before the
retailer. Unfortunately, these programs are easy to pick up but difficult to
spot and very hard to remove.

For example, we know of Trojans that have eluded Norton Anti-Virus, Norton
Internet Security, Windows Defender and SP2 Firewall. The most effective
software we have found for finding and removing this sort of program is called
Spyware Doctor which is available from:

www.pctools.com

Please take the time to use these tools on your PC - or get some professional
help to do so. If the computer is infected then any transactions you make in
the future with your card - whether with us or any other online retailer -
will be visible to the hackers and you could be the victim of fraud yourself.

In the current environment, you might be better off using a dedicated on-line
payment system like PayPal which we have integrated into our checkout for this
reason.

Thanks again

Yours

Harvey Jones
Managing Director, Wiggle Ltd

Regards
Harvey Jones "

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Pete Biggs wrote:

Quoted message said:

I've had money taken from my debit card a couple of times

AOL; I was accosted by big burly security types (well almost) in
Woolworths yesterday after my card was similarly after using Wiggle
;-(

Quoting Pinky <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I emailed Wiggle on 23 March to tell them about this topic.

[Wiggle reply]

Quoted message said:

By far the most common explanation for internet related fraud is that the
users computer is infected with a "Trojan".

Any of the victims here not use Windows?
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!
Today is First Teleute, April.

David Damerell said:

Quoting Pinky <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I emailed Wiggle on 23 March to tell them about this topic.

[Wiggle reply]

Quoted message said:

By far the most common explanation for internet related fraud is that the
users computer is infected with a "Trojan".

Any of the victims here not use Windows?

FWIW, I've seen sites which interrogate your browser and refuse to
deal with you if they detect you're not using IE.

Paul Boyd said:

On 28/03/2007 19:13, Peter Grange said,

Quoted message said:

FWIW, I've seen sites which interrogate your browser and refuse to
deal with you if they detect you're not using IE.

There's an incentive to shop somewhere else if ever I saw one!
Isn't the percentage of IE users down to something like 75%/80%
now? So these sites would be happy to lose a quarter or a fifth of
their customers?

Apparently. I always tell any site that demands IE that I'm taking my
business elsewhere (normally whether I have any business to take or
not).

My bank used to require IE, and I wasn't able to go elsewhere (for
reasons to do with some stuff secured against my house, I have a very
limited range of mortgage options). However, I corresponded with them
a bit, and they have now has stopped requiring IE and work happily
with firefox. I don't suppose I alone caused this, but presumably
there were enough people asking that they accepted the change. I
think the issue of browser-specific web sites is getting better at the
moment.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Quoted message said:

Isn't the
percentage of IE users down to something like 75%/80% now? So these
sites would be happy to lose a quarter or a fifth of their customers?

Many (most?) of those users would have IE too, but use an alternative in
normal use.

Peter Grange said:

David Damerell said:

Quoting Pinky <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I emailed Wiggle on 23 March to tell them about this topic.

[Wiggle reply]

Quoted message said:

By far the most common explanation for internet related fraud is that the
users computer is infected with a "Trojan".

Any of the victims here not use Windows?

FWIW, I've seen sites which interrogate your browser and refuse to
deal with you if they detect you're not using IE.

Quite a lot do - but they nearly all work (FSVO) with other browsers -
just set you browser to identify itself as IE and then send a stroppy
email. Or else just take you business elsewhere.

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:13:25 +0100,

Peter Grange said:

David Damerell said:

Quoting Pinky <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I emailed Wiggle on 23 March to tell them about this topic.

[Wiggle reply]

Quoted message said:

By far the most common explanation for internet related fraud is that the
users computer is infected with a "Trojan".

Any of the victims here not use Windows?

FWIW, I've seen sites which interrogate your browser and refuse to
deal with you if they detect you're not using IE.

That is probably a good reason to refuse to do business with such
organisations. I have known people who have moved their bank account
because the web-based banking wouldn't work cross-browser (and hence on
their chosen operating system).

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Mark Thompson said the following on 29/03/2007 08:41:

Quoted message said:

Many (most?) of those users would have IE too, but use an alternative in
normal use.

If you're using a Windows PC, you don't have the choice not to have IE!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Ian Smith said the following on 28/03/2007 22:26:

Quoted message said:

My bank used to require IE, and I wasn't able to go elsewhere

My bank (LLoyds TSB) seems to have always worked quite happily with
Firefox. I wouldn't like to say whether or not that's by design though.

Quoted message said:

think the issue of browser-specific web sites is getting better at the
moment.

It is. I think people have finally cottoned on to the fact that Firefox
in particular isn't going to go away, and is drawing people's attention
generally to the fact that there might actually be an alternative to IE,
even if they end up using Opera or whatever rather than Firefox.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/