A couple of Saddle Questions

GIH said:

I think I have a couple of questions that haven't been answered that well in this forum yet. I could be wrong though.

I've been trying to set up my bike position to avoid circulation problems and numbness issues, but sadly with little luck. There are still a few things I want to try that I think might help, but I have a few questions first.

My seatpost has no setback (Thompson Elite). My main resource for bike fitting is Steve Hogg, who answers questions at cyclingnews.com. He suggests that the most important factor in saddle position, once saddle height is decided upon, is passing the balance test (i.e. setup the bike in a trainer, put your hands in the drops, pedal hard and let go of the drops. Setup the saddle in the forwardmost position that allows you to pedal without falling over). With my seatpost I can't quite get enough setback to pass this test with all of my saddles (the only one I can barely pass it with is the Toupe). The other saddles I am trying are the E3 Form Ti and the San Marco Apside Arrowhead. I've obviously tried a variety of saddle positions, but I haven't gone too far forward. So the question is, should I adhere to the balance test and perhaps get a setback seatpost, or should I try sitting even further foward (I haven't tried setting the saddles up as close to the handlebars as they can go)? I think it could help to try a closer position based on reading some previous threads, but it has taken me a while to get there (I'm very methodical about trying different positions). I also might need to move it further back.

The next question pertains to sitbone width and saddle width. All the saddles are fairly narrow except the specialized, which is 143 I think (or is it 148?). Could it be that I am using too narrow of a saddle? I have tried to measure my sitbone width using the method outlined in Joshua Cohen's Finding the Perfect Bicycle seat book, but I can't do it accurately (my range of measurements is from 155mm to 110mm, so its useless). Is there a good way to do this measurement, and if so how should I do it correctly (i.e. do I measure from the middle of the sitbones, or from the outer edges, etc)?

Finally, I was considering trying a Brooks saddle, because they seem to work for some people, and they are very hard which is one of the main things I'm looking for in a saddle. In my opinion the saddles I currently use are on the soft side, and they don't cause me any sitbone discomfort, so I suspect I would find a brooks comfortable. I'm only interested in racing at the moment. I don't give a damn about weight, but will the increased width of the brooks saddles cause me discomfort when in the drops? I was thinking about either a professional or a swift, which are designed for a larger amount of handlebar drop. Are there any racers that use these?

Finally, I've tried the following saddles, E3 Form, Specialized Toupe, Selle San Marco Apside Arrowhead, Specialized BG Sport, and Specialized Rival, with little luck. Are there any similarities between this group that I am missing (aside from the width less than 150)? Can you suggest another saddle that might be different from these as much as possible? Or am I better off continuing to try these saddles in more positions.

For what its worth, I have had a bicycle fit, but I feel I'd be better off tweaking stuff on my own (I think I'll get the right answer faster that way) rather than talking to them more. They also have a different fit philosophy than me (KOPS versus Steve Hogg balance test for example).

If any of ya'll have any advice, I'd love to appreciate it. Thanks,

Depending on your height and bone size, your saddles could be too narrow. Believe the saddle width should be to the outsides of the sitzbones as a minimum for proper support. You could go to a Specialized dealer and sit on the "Assometer" pad for a measurement, then select the width you need.

Brooks are wider than current italian racing saddles. Even the B17 "Narrow" on my old Raleigh is a good bit wider than most of them. Brooks could be a good fit for you; the Brooks Pro has a loyal following here with the randonneur types who ride for days.

Have heard about the balance test method, but I think a "test" like this could lead you astray since there are so many variables. EG, what gearing and power output is he talking about? I'd use the KOPS position as a fore/aft starting point, then fine-tune the saddle tilt position. That adjustment is key to relieving numbness, IMO.

I can only comment on what works for me, Specialized Body Geometry saddle, both on my road and mountain bikes. What can I say, it fits my butt. 🙂

The argument for the balance test was very convincing to me, but I'm willing to try anything (and also improve my core strength, which will increase my ability to pass the balance test at more forward seating positions). I actually hadn't played with saddle tilt much. I'll definitely try that out.

I actually thought that specialized had all their assometers shipped back to them or something like that.

As far as the Brooks is concerned, I guess they were the main choice of racers back in the day, so it should be possible to use them in the drops. But that begs the question of why modern saddles are so narrow (or Brooks are so wide). I always thought it was because while in the drops your sit bones are moved closer together (I think I read that on the Specialized website perhaps).

Incidentally, Brooks recently released a 130mm saddle called the sprinter (an old remake of a saddle for sprinters). Naturally, its priced like the swallow.

Just thought I'd bump this at least one time in case.
FWIW I think I have a good measurement of my sit bone width to be about 125-130mm (measured from the outside edge of one to the other). Its a really difficult measurement to make. Eventually I got two large speaker cabinets and just kept moving them further apart until they no longer supported my sitbones at all (while sitting on the gap between them).

I guess this means I'd need a saddle with an effective seating area of perhaps 135-140mm in width (i.e. this is the width of the flat part of the saddle).
Though listed at 143mm the actual usable width of the Toupe I currently have on my bike is less, its more like 120mm. This is possibly why I'm having trouble getting comfortable on it. I actually think if it was a tiny bit wider it might be perfect.

If I can't get it to work in the next couple of days I'm going to try something new, perhaps a B17N or another Brooks model. There is also another wider Specialized, I think either the Alias or Avatar comes in 155mm. Do any of ya'll have other suggestions for me? Do you think it might be more of a positioning issue than a saddle issue (I tried messing around with the tilt and setback more but I can't quite avoid blood flow getting cutoff, but I have increased the time it takes for it to make me quit for the day).