tips on painting frame

David Griffith said:

I am refinishing an early 80's Guerciotti. I've stripped paint off of
it, sanded & wire brushed some rust spots. Soon I will have a friend
who paints cars prime it and paint it with DuPont Imron. I've ordered a
set of 'vintage' labels for the bike. I thought I'd apply them and then
spray with clearcoat.

I may also try to paint the lugs in a contrasting color.

Can anyone offer suggestions how I might do all of this?

How does one tape & cut for painting lugs?

How can I avoid painting threads?

Should I screw in bottom bracket parts?

Should I leave the rear dropout adjusting bolts in place?

Should I screw in bottle cage bolts?

Any tips on applying labels?

Thanks in advance for any help.

David Griffith

Don't know allot about painting tips, but don't breath it in and wear
resperator. Hear it can cause brain damage instantly.

David Griffith said:

I am refinishing an early 80's Guerciotti. I've stripped paint off of
it, sanded & wire brushed some rust spots. Soon I will have a friend
who paints cars prime it and paint it with DuPont Imron. I've ordered a
set of 'vintage' labels for the bike. I thought I'd apply them and then
spray with clearcoat.

I may also try to paint the lugs in a contrasting color.

Can anyone offer suggestions how I might do all of this?

How does one tape & cut for painting lugs?

How can I avoid painting threads?

Should I screw in bottom bracket parts?

Should I leave the rear dropout adjusting bolts in place?

Should I screw in bottle cage bolts?

Any tips on applying labels?

Thanks in advance for any help.

David Griffith

David,

In fact you better have full protective suit garmets, get the latest
MSDS sheets per exact formulatin you are using, and understand
everything on MSDS sheets.

Good Luck

David Griffith said:

I am refinishing an early 80's Guerciotti. I've stripped paint off of
it, sanded & wire brushed some rust spots. Soon I will have a friend
who paints cars prime it and paint it with DuPont Imron. I've ordered a
set of 'vintage' labels for the bike. I thought I'd apply them and then
spray with clearcoat.

I may also try to paint the lugs in a contrasting color.

Can anyone offer suggestions how I might do all of this?

How does one tape & cut for painting lugs?

How can I avoid painting threads?

Should I screw in bottom bracket parts?

Should I leave the rear dropout adjusting bolts in place?

Should I screw in bottle cage bolts?

Any tips on applying labels?

Thanks in advance for any help.

David Griffith

Your questions may already be answered in the archives of the frameforum
website:

www.frameforum.net,

or the archives of the framebuilders listserv:

http://search.bikelist.org

Quoted message said:

David Griffith said:

I am refinishing an early 80's Guerciotti. I've stripped paint off of
it, sanded & wire brushed some rust spots. Soon I will have a friend
who paints cars prime it and paint it with DuPont Imron. I've ordered a
set of 'vintage' labels for the bike. I thought I'd apply them and then
spray with clearcoat.
I may also try to paint the lugs in a contrasting color.
Can anyone offer suggestions how I might do all of this?
How does one tape & cut for painting lugs?
How can I avoid painting threads?
Should I screw in bottom bracket parts?
Should I leave the rear dropout adjusting bolts in place?
Should I screw in bottle cage bolts?
Any tips on applying labels?
Thanks in advance for any help.

ddog said:

Don't know allot about painting tips, but don't breath it in and wear
resperator. Hear it can cause brain damage instantly.

Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself.
'Instantly' may be overstated.

To OP: Any tech school library should have a few basic auto body texts.
You should read a couple as there aren't 'snappy answers' to painting
steel. Here's the shortest useful list I could write:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/paint_repair.html

As "assembly is the reverse of disassembly", painting an entire bike is
like just touchup, only bigger.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

On Mar 8, 11:58 am, David Griffith <[email hidden]> wrote:

ddog said:

Don't know allot about painting tips, but don't breath it in and wear
resperator. Hear it can cause brain damage instantly.

Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself.
'Instantly' may be overstated.
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org

Andrew,

Maybe, but this was specific to Imron polyeurotahane. Better safe than
sorry. Updated MSDS knowledge is always critical in dealing with
chemicals of any kind.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ddog said:

Don't know allot about painting tips, but don't breath it in and wear
resperator. Hear it can cause brain damage instantly.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself.
'Instantly' may be overstated.

ddog said:

Maybe, but this was specific to Imron polyeurotahane. Better safe than
sorry. Updated MSDS knowledge is always critical in dealing with
chemicals of any kind.

Sure, I agree, reading is good. I'm big on literacy.

Still, I used shot that godawful Imron for years with no mask and I
don't recall my brain damage as "instant". Heck it wasn't even "slow"
AFAIK. YMMV of course. I believe you simply overstated the case.

p.s.- Now that we are 2~3 generations past Imron, paint is _much_ better
in every way.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

If you buy a run-of-the-mill acrylic enamel you can probably get by
with long sleeves and a mid-quality respirator ($40-$60 variety.)
Don't skimp on this part ; many common diseases of the aged such as
alzheimers and parkinsons are quite possibly caused by minor brain
damage from our chemical-laced society ...

Imron is popular because it doesn't really dry out for 10 years.
Thus, it resists chipping but once 10 years are gone it chips just
like anything else. However, it is very difficult to spray it thinly
onto a frameset. acrylic enamel is quite likely what was used to
paint a mid-80's guerciotti ~ certainly a 70's guerciotti. I think
that in the mid 80's, only TREK and custom builders were using imron
paints.

I understand that one of the most difficult things about painting a
bike is that you need to get 3-4 compatible paints - primers, base
coats, and clear coats, plus you must have patience and know how to
spray the whole bike without overdoing any one area. You need a good
online manufacturer that offers stuff like 'house of kolor' to tell
you what pain groups of paints (primer, color, clear) will work for
you.

Good Luck !!

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

If you buy a run-of-the-mill acrylic enamel you can probably get by
with long sleeves and a mid-quality respirator ($40-$60 variety.)
Don't skimp on the respirator ; many common diseases of the aged such
as alzheimers and parkinsons and cancer are quite possibly caused by
minor brain damage or immune toxins from our chemical-laced society ...

Imron is popular because it doesn't really dry out for 10 years.
Thus, it resists chipping but once 10 years are gone it chips just
like anything else. However, it is very difficult to spray it thinly
onto a frameset, and i believe it uses benzene, a known carcinogen.
acrylic enamel is quite likely what was used to paint a mid-80's
guerciotti ~ certainly a 70's guerciotti perhaps electrostatically. I
think that in the mid 80's, only TREK and custom builders were using
imron paints.

I understand that one of the tricky things about painting a bike is
that you need to get 3-4 compatible paints - primers, base coats, and
clear coats, plus you must have patience and know how to spray the
whole bike without overdoing any one area. after primer you will
often need to spackle, sand, and spray a 2nd coat of primer. You need
a good online manufacturer that offers stuff like 'house of kolor' to
tell you what groups of paints (primer, color, clear) will work
together for you.

Most painters will remove all hardware and mask all threads, filling
big holes (headset, bottom bracket) with cardboard & masking tape,
filling small holes (dropouts, bottle mounts, cable guides) with
toothpicks.

Bike might be held by wires in space. I have heard that some painters
use an expandable seatpost and can swivel the entire bike so that they
can reach difficult areas quickly. The most important thing is to get
a good quality hobby compressor that can reach high psi (60 psi or
higher) and a good airbrush. Don't waste your time with rattle-can
paints, they will be too thick and will splatter and ruin the finish.
You need an airbrush so you can thin down your paints to get an
optimum paintjob.

Good Luck !!

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Imron, and other catalysed polyurethanes have isocyanates as part of the
catalyst. Isocyanates WILL sensitize people. When that happens you will
react virtually instantly to ANY level of exposure. One can "shoot" the
stuff for decades without "noticeable" effect, then all of a sudden you'll
react... stuffy head, headaches, nervous twitching etc. The only safe way to
spray or be in the presence of unreacted urethane is by using full-face,
air-supplied respirators and complete coverage. That being said, A one of
application probably (I said probably) won't be a huge problem if you use
only a half-face, air-purifying respirator fitted with Organic-vapour
cartridges.

Grolsch

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ddog wrote:
> Don't know allot about painting tips, but don't breath it in and wear
> resperator. Hear it can cause brain damage instantly.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself.
'Instantly' may be overstated.

ddog said:

Maybe, but this was specific to Imron polyeurotahane. Better safe than
sorry. Updated MSDS knowledge is always critical in dealing with
chemicals of any kind.

Sure, I agree, reading is good. I'm big on literacy.

Still, I used shot that godawful Imron for years with no mask and I don't
recall my brain damage as "instant". Heck it wasn't even "slow" AFAIK.
YMMV of course. I believe you simply overstated the case.

p.s.- Now that we are 2~3 generations past Imron, paint is _much_ better
in every way.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

David Griffith said:

I am refinishing an early 80's Guerciotti. I've stripped paint off of
it, sanded & wire brushed some rust spots. Soon I will have a friend
who paints cars prime it and paint it with DuPont Imron. I've ordered a
set of 'vintage' labels for the bike. I thought I'd apply them and then
spray with clearcoat.

I may also try to paint the lugs in a contrasting color.

Can anyone offer suggestions how I might do all of this?

How does one tape & cut for painting lugs?

How can I avoid painting threads?

Should I screw in bottom bracket parts?

Should I leave the rear dropout adjusting bolts in place?

Should I screw in bottle cage bolts?

Any tips on applying labels?

Thanks in advance for any help.

David Griffith

I'll leave the brain damage aspect of this discussion to others with
first hand knowledge ;-)

I just had painted an 80's frame, and I bead blasted it to get as much
of the rust as I could. I suppose wire brushing would do it for mild
rust, but the last thing I wanted to happen was just bubbles 2 months
later, so I bead blasted. Bead blasting also preserved details like
the Campagnolo text on the dropouts.

During priming and painting, the bb was stuffed with crumpled up
masking tape to keep most of the overspray out, and I taped the inside
surfaces of the headset area too. But I also chased the threads after
the primer coat, and after the color coats. I didn't both after the
clearcoat, and the bb cups screwed in like butter. I suppose half-way
screwed in bb cups could protect things just as well.

I'd put some sacrificial bolts in the rear dropouts, only cuz I don't
have the right sized tap. Ditto with bottle cages (half screwed in).

I also bought some NOS decals, but chose not to use them. It is a
track bike so it is easier to get away with no decals. For a road
bike, I'd figure it out. I bought a set of 3 and practiced with one.
It was heat transfer, not water. Make sure you know what kind you have
and/or get extras. It was pretty hard to do with the larger decals cuz
the cracked so easily. Also make sure your clearcoat doesn't disolve
them.

As for masking lugs, I have not used it but I would try a liquid
masking product like:

http://www.hobbico.com/accys/hcar3410.html

instead of tape. Better for fine details. I'd also practice with a
dumpster diving junk bike and spray cans to get a handle on the
masking. You might also look into getting an auto paint pinstriper to
do some by hand hi-lights.

Good luck!

Joseph

Quoted message said:

ddog said:

Don't know allot about painting tips, but don't breath it in and wear
resperator. Hear it can cause brain damage instantly.

Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself.
'Instantly' may be overstated.

You should have said:

"Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself. 'Instantly'
may be oversta-ZZZewd#@^$#$ <CARRIER LOST>"

--
Phil

On Mar 9, 6:36 pm, "Phil, Non-Squid" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ddog said:

Don't know allot about painting tips, but don't breath it in and wear
resperator. Hear it can cause brain damage instantly.

Quoted message said:

Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself.
'Instantly' may be overstated.

You should have said:

"Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself. 'Instantly'
may be oversta-ZZZewd#@^$#$ <CARRIER LOST>"

--
Phil

I was just repeating what I read. Of course its up to the individual
to meet their own safety comfort level. But I'm not going to condone
lax precautions with a known hazardous material. I didn't read MSDS
because I chickened out on painting my own.

Heck, look what it did to Ozark and his multiple skitz id's. A soldier
in the Army at Ft. Leonard Woods (in the Ozark Mountains also) joked
around and huffed gas in front of me and passed out before I could
react (never seen anyone do it before). Although I told him to never
do that again, who knows. I hope he didn't just like hopefully Ozark
and all his ID's will quit too. Its not a laughing matter, even though
everything feels fine, its really not: just like alcoholism and I'm
1/8 Cherokee - I don't drink now after realizing it affects my
bloodline. Im also chemically sensitive like 15% of everyone else, and
am repulsed by any chemicals.

I damn sure don't know what its like to huff paint, gas, or any
chemical type solvents, but it doesn't take a whole lot of sense to
know its not good for your brain. Maybe I'm hypersensitive from being
a Safety Engineer, but just look at skids huffing paint on 'Cops': it
doesn't bother them either and they've only been doing it for a few
years.

ddog said:

On Mar 9, 6:36 pm, "Phil, Non-Squid" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ddog wrote:
> Don't know allot about painting tips, but don't breath it in and
> wear resperator. Hear it can cause brain damage instantly.

Quoted message said:

Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself.
'Instantly' may be overstated.

You should have said:

"Been shooting cars & bikes for about 30 years without, myself.
'Instantly' may be oversta-ZZZewd#@^$#$ <CARRIER LOST>"

--
Phil

I was just repeating what I read. Of course its up to the individual
to meet their own safety comfort level. But I'm not going to condone
lax precautions with a known hazardous material. I didn't read MSDS
because I chickened out on painting my own.

Heck, look what it did to Ozark and his multiple skitz id's. A soldier
in the Army at Ft. Leonard Woods (in the Ozark Mountains also) joked
around and huffed gas in front of me and passed out before I could
react (never seen anyone do it before). Although I told him to never
do that again, who knows. I hope he didn't just like hopefully Ozark
and all his ID's will quit too. Its not a laughing matter, even though
everything feels fine, its really not: just like alcoholism and I'm
1/8 Cherokee - I don't drink now after realizing it affects my
bloodline. Im also chemically sensitive like 15% of everyone else, and
am repulsed by any chemicals.

I damn sure don't know what its like to huff paint, gas, or any
chemical type solvents, but it doesn't take a whole lot of sense to
know its not good for your brain. Maybe I'm hypersensitive from being
a Safety Engineer, but just look at skids huffing paint on 'Cops': it
doesn't bother them either and they've only been doing it for a few
years.

Oh, I was kidding... I did some safety work at my internship last summer so
by no means am I advocating unsafe practices. My belief is that these
things accumulate until something pops up at end of life, seemingly
unrelated. But you never know...
--
Phil