genetic limits

What are you talking about???? 😄 I assume you had your vo2max tested in a control setting (lab) in order to determine your max power in 1 hour??? To find out your genetic limit???

postal_bag said:

Can one exceed one's genetic limits by incorporating creative visualization in one's training?

en.wikipedia.orgPsychedelics, dissociatives and deliriantsOpen ↗

thinking of something hallucinogenic? 🙂

No, but visualisation might help you reach your genetic potential

Wouldn't genetic potential imply than any limitation is purely physical rather than mental? In that case, I'd say whatever is required to remove the mental limitations (or at least boost the mental expections beyond what the body is physically capable of -- see rmur17's post 😉 ) would be *required* to reach one's genetic limit. If you give up voluntarily, rather than dying, then you weren't really at your genetic limit, right? 😄

Stop thinking, just inject some good genes! Or go and complain to your mum and pa! 😄

postal_bag said:

Can one exceed one's genetic limits ...?

That's a fallacy by definition. Visualization may as others have pointed out, allow you to reach your genetic limit but by definition you can't exceed it. If you manage to exceed your estimated genetic limit(after all that's the best we can really do, estimate it) then it was underestimated.

daveryanwyoming said:

That's a fallacy by definition. Visualization may as others have pointed out, allow you to reach your genetic limit but by definition you can't exceed it. If you manage to exceed your estimated genetic limit(after all that's the best we can really do, estimate it) then it was underestimated.

en.wikipedia.orgCreative VisualizationOpen ↗

For anyone not familiar with the concept, basically it says that you are attracting everything into your life (the good and the bad), by the virtue of the thoughts and images you hold in your mind, thereby creating your reality, whether you are conscious of it or not.

Maybe I should have used "expand" instead of "exceed". The reason I put GL (add that to the acronym sticky) 🙂 in Italics was to suggest the possibility of there being no such thing.

Admittedly, I was being a little "trippy".

postal_bag said:

...basically it says that you are attracting everything into your life (the good and the bad), by the virtue of the thoughts and images you hold in your mind, thereby creating your reality, whether you are conscious of it or not....

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer in visualization and the power of positive thought. My best races, rock climbs and other athletic performances have come after dedicated pre-event visualization. I've surprised myself several times by going above and beyond recent performances by visualizing myself being at the front on the climb or bridging to the break or sticking the crux move. If your poll had asked whether visualization could bring you better results or allow you to reach your true potential my answer would have been different. I was just objecting to your wording relative to the definition of a genetic limit.

It does bring up an interesting question. A lot of forum posts discuss approaching or hitting your genetic limit. With the possible exception of Andy and a few others that have many years of experience and no doubt many years of personal lab test data coupled with many years of study and objective personal data analysis, how do any of us know when we're approaching our genetic limits? Some have suggested we know we're approaching our limits when our improvement slows down. But how do you account for the year to year growth of a competitive cyclist?

Sure your FTP can start leveling off for a given season but does that imply that you won't be even stronger next year or five years down the road if you stay committed? There seems to be a lot of evidence that it takes five to ten years to reach your peak cycling fitness but we talk about genetic limits as though we know when we're approaching ours during a single season. Some tests like VO2 max testing seem good for finding our current limits, but even VO2 max is trainable to some extent.

So how does the average competitive cyclist accurately estimate their genetic limits?

-Dave

postal_bag said:

en.wikipedia.orgCreative VisualizationOpen ↗

For anyone not familiar with the concept, basically it says that you are attracting everything into your life (the good and the bad), by the virtue of the thoughts and images you hold in your mind, thereby creating your reality, whether you are conscious of it or not.

Maybe I should have used "expand" instead of "exceed". The reason I put GL (add that to the acronym sticky) 🙂 in Italics was to suggest the possibility of there being no such thing.

Admittedly, I was being a little "trippy".

I agree with Daveryanwyoming...few have actually realized their genetic limit. Many have come perhaps to 95% though.

Your technique can help you attain to it but genetic limit is the maximum (natural) development attainable. Can genetic limit be alters as you suggest?....

Hmmmm.

Floyd Landis
Frankie Andreu
Marco Pantani
Oscar Camenzind
Floyd Landis
Johan Museeuw
Frank Vandenbroucke
Allex Zulle
Richard Virenque
Tyler Hamilton
Jen Voigt
Roberto Heras
Stephen Swartz
Benoit Joachim
Manuel Beltran
Pavel Padrnos

Then there are these people!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_who_tested_positive_for_banned_substances

daveryanwyoming said:

Sure your FTP can start leveling off for a given season but does that imply that you won't be even stronger next year or five years down the road if you stay committed? There seems to be a lot of evidence that it takes five to ten years to reach your peak cycling fitness but we talk about genetic limits as though we know when we're approaching ours during a single season. Some tests like VO2 max testing seem good for finding our current limits, but even VO2 max is trainable to some extent.

-Dave

And does this apply to the older cyclist too? Can I continue to improve up to the age of seventy plus?

I guess the other way to look at this genetic limit question is to look at how world records are being broken year after year. I don't think that human genes are undergoing rapid natural selection over the last 100 years (apart from those who won the Annual Darwin Awards), yet records are still being broken, performance of top sportsmen/women are still based on the existing gene pool. Are we at 95% of our gene's capability? Or are we still only at 90%?

daveryanwyoming said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer in visualization and the power of positive thought. My best races, rock climbs and other athletic performances have come after dedicated pre-event visualization. I've surprised myself several times by going above and beyond recent performances by visualizing myself being at the front on the climb or bridging to the break or sticking the crux move. If your poll had asked whether visualization could bring you better results or allow you to reach your true potential my answer would have been different. I was just objecting to your wording relative to the definition of a genetic limit.

It does bring up an interesting question. A lot of forum posts discuss approaching or hitting your genetic limit. With the possible exception of Andy and a few others that have many years of experience and no doubt many years of personal lab test data coupled with many years of study and objective personal data analysis, how do any of us know when we're approaching our genetic limits? Some have suggested we know we're approaching our limits when our improvement slows down. But how do you account for the year to year growth of a competitive cyclist?

Sure your FTP can start leveling off for a given season but does that imply that you won't be even stronger next year or five years down the road if you stay committed? There seems to be a lot of evidence that it takes five to ten years to reach your peak cycling fitness but we talk about genetic limits as though we know when we're approaching ours during a single season. Some tests like VO2 max testing seem good for finding our current limits, but even VO2 max is trainable to some extent.

So how does the average competitive cyclist accurately estimate their genetic limits?

-Dave

I guess I was referring to VO2 max thing as one's "genetic limit".

As far as visualization goes, I meant in terms of bringing about physiological changes, like healing oneself of a terminal illness, or walking again after a spinal cord injury where they said you would never walk again, etc.

If you believe in this stuff, you could take that method and apply it to your cycling and perform similar "miracles".

Well, I have to get some rest.....I'm wiped from that 2 x 20' session I visualized earlier. Man, I was pushing 450 w. 😉

Dream often my friend.
For that which is most vivid,
is true.
It is you.

Before every race I work out the course and the demands it will take out of me & the competition im racing against...then I work out THE MOST LIKELY way for me to win the race!

In a race I use that last simple step. Workout the MOST LIKELY way to win the race & act on it! Surely this is what everyone should be doing. If your doing otherwise your probably being a show pony or racing for the wrong reasons.

That is my mental preparation and its pretty straightforward if I say so myself.

dm69 said:

Before every race I work out the course and the demands it will take out of me & the competition im racing against...then I work out THE MOST LIKELY way for me to win the race!

In a race I use that last simple step. Workout the MOST LIKELY way to win the race & act on it! Surely this is what everyone should be doing. If your doing otherwise your probably being a show pony or racing for the wrong reasons.

That is my mental preparation and its pretty straightforward if I say so myself.

Ahh the predictability of a simple mind. Touche 😉

Has anyone really reached their genetic limit? How do you know that? If you are still improving, even if a little, your not at your genetic limit.
If we do believe that we're at our genetic limit, then why are we training to improve/get better, just accept it, this is the best we will ever do.

I dont believe that, do you really think all the pro's & domestiques have a genetic advantage, heck no, they trained like madmen and found the "correct" way, granted there are some out there that do have and advantage, but Im talking the majority of those guys. Look at the guys who were domestiques for years, then became tour leaders, good thing they didnt accept the gene limit, look at the guys now that are on top, find out what teams they rode for 10-15 years ago, it took most of these guys that long to get where they are now.

I trained & raced for years & only got so far in the 3s & struggled, I was told maybe Im at my limit, I refused to believe that, found a different way to train & now glad I didnt listen or I would have quit and sang the same old song, I couldnt get better, I was at my genetic limit, the others amatures had better genes. I was just training wrong, wrong, wrong, now this past year I found the correct way, now Im in the 3s with ease, attacking, getting into breaks & having fun, to bad it to all these years to now finally train right, & Im 40. So my advice, change your training & change it again & change it again, you might find out what you thought was your limit may not have been.

postal_bag said:

Can one exceed one's genetic limits by incorporating creative visualization in one's training?

'there are "no limits" ' -Prefontaine

rooman said:

'there are "no limits" ' -Prefontaine

It is said in Anquetil's video that he was a genetic miracle, the truth is, he simply found the perfect way to power the pedals which he used to fool the cycling TT world. If he was genetic miracle, why was he not able to sprint. It's all about technique.

TiMan said:

I agree with Daveryanwyoming...few have actually realized their genetic limit. Many have come perhaps to 95% though.

Your technique can help you attain to it but genetic limit is the maximum (natural) development attainable. Can genetic limit be alters as you suggest?....

Hmmmm.

Floyd Landis
Frankie Andreu
Marco Pantani
Oscar Camenzind
Floyd Landis
Johan Museeuw
Frank Vandenbroucke
Allex Zulle
Richard Virenque
Tyler Hamilton
Jen Voigt
Roberto Heras
Stephen Swartz
Benoit Joachim
Manuel Beltran
Pavel Padrnos

Then there are these people!
en.wikipedia.orgList of athletes who tested positive for banned substancesOpen ↗

Why Jens Voigt😕