Tyres for distance

On Feb 26, 10:46 am, Buck <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?

Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something more
robust and free rolling like a Marathon, or do you prefer something
sporty like Stelvios?
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok

www.catrike.co.uk

On my Rocket, I generally go with the Stelvios in good weather, Comets
in less-good weather.

Best,

Dan

Buck said:

What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?

Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something
more
robust and free rolling like a Marathon, or do you prefer something
sporty like Stelvios?

Marathons. I'm not that fussed about outright speed and I'm quite
likely to take off-road diversions and Stelvios aren't really the thing
for that... The suspension on the SMGT takes care of the comfort side
of things so I can have the Ms running at 100 psi and not suffer.

They're pretty bombproof too is another Good Thing. I think I've had
about 2 punctures in ~6 years on the 'bent (both rear, of course! ;-/)
and I'm been quite happy not to have long days punctuated by the
Puncture Fairy.

Also, to some extent I'm not a huge experimenter with setup. The bike
came with them, I've been happy and impressed, so not wanting to fix
something that ain't broke I've not tried other tyres on it.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Buck said:

What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?

Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something
more
robust and free rolling like a Marathon, or do you prefer something
sporty like Stelvios?

I purchased the 406/1.50 Greenspeed Scorcher TR tires, and find them
both fast and bulletproof. Many of us that have used them find them
comfy also.

Joel

I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent, I
wanted some cushioning action. I run them between 40 and 60 psi. That's
plenty for easy rolling. Don't forget that the trike has all the weight
distributed over three wheels instead of two, that makes a diff. I find the
balance between comfort, handling and speed is best with the Big Apples at
50psi. I also think that, unless your rides are on ultra smooth roadways,
smaller tires and higher pressures are just too hard on me and the equipment
with only a marginal increase in average speed.

Grolsch

"Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2007022615461411272-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...

Quoted message said:

What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?

Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something
more
robust and free rolling like a Marathon, or do you prefer something sporty
like Stelvios?
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok

www.catrike.co.uk

Buck said:

What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?

Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something
more
robust and free rolling like a Marathon, or do you prefer something
sporty like Stelvios?

I make sure to get the round ones now.
I tried the square ones, and they're cheap but man they sucked.
All four times I bought them.
But I've learned my lesson.

-----------

I prefer wider tires, 1.5"+. Narrower 1-inch tires accelerate quicker
but only feel good on smooth-as-glass pavement. Unless you're rich
enough to have a bent with full suspension, of course--and in that
case--I hate you; shut up.

,,,,,

Recently I switched to wider /rims/ with the same width tires, and
rather like the effect. I had a dual-559mm wheel bike (a RANS Fusion)
running Schwalbe Marathon Plus's's (both tires!) and I wanted to switch
to disk brakes and better spokes, and at the lower end of the market,
it's cheaper just to buy whole new wheels at that point.

I decided to run the Marathon+'s because I decided one fine day (while
fixing a flat) that I hated fixing flats more than I hated heavy tires.

This bike came with "the usual" 25mm-wide rims, and I got new wheels
that had ~34mm rims, as wider rims made sense, and I wondered what
effect this would have, and it's an around-town <50 mile bike (has a
rear rack with baskets and all) so it isn't a "high-speed or -distance"
bike,,, so running rims a bit heavier is no big deal anyway. The bike
seems to track better now, especially the rear wheel. It NOW seems like
it was "sliding out" a lot before, but now,,, it doesn't.

I will likely switch my other "high-speed and -distance" LWB to Marathon
Plus tires, and am pondering reworking the wheels to wider rims as well.
~

Dan B. said:

On Feb 26, 10:46 am, Buck <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?

Quoted message said:

Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something more
robust and free rolling like a Marathon, or do you prefer something
sporty like Stelvios?
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok

Quoted message said:

www.catrike.co.uk

On my Rocket, I generally go with the Stelvios in good weather, Comets
in less-good weather.

Do the newer Primo Comets have better traction than those made in the
last century? When I changed from the stock 37-406 Comets to 44-406
Avocet [1] slicks, braking in the wet was considerably improved. The
smooth tread of the Avocets also likely helps (compared to the
"herringbone" pattern of the Comets), since patterned tread on
pavement is about as useful as an udder on a bull [2].

On real world roads, the wider moderate pressure tires will likely be
faster than the narrow high pressure tires, unless one is riding at
the 40+ kph range, where the reduction in frontal area becomes
significant (especially in combination with disc wheels). The increase
in ride comfort will also improve average long distance speeds on
unsuspended bicycles by reducing rider fatigue.

[1] <http://www.avocet.com/tirepages/carbon12_specs.html>.
[2] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/slicks.html>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Grolch said:

I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent...

Aluminium alloy [1] has approximately the same ratio of elastic
modulus to density as steel. Stiffness depends on the elastic modulus
of the material and the moment of inertia of the section. Aluminium
alloy frames are generally stiffer due the lower density allowing for
thicker wall, larger diameter tubing than if steel was used (with
buckling of the tube controlling minimum wall thickness). Therefore,
it is improper to characterize aluminium alloy frames as being stiffer
due to just the material used without mentioning the other factors.

[1] 6061 T-6 for Catrike's.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Grolch said:

I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent...

Aluminium alloy [1] has approximately the same ratio of elastic
modulus to density as steel. Stiffness depends on the elastic modulus
of the material and the moment of inertia of the section. Aluminium
alloy frames are generally stiffer due the lower density allowing for
thicker wall, larger diameter tubing than if steel was used (with
buckling of the tube controlling minimum wall thickness). Therefore,
it is improper to characterize aluminium alloy frames as being stiffer
due to just the material used without mentioning the other factors.

[1] 6061 T-6 for Catrike's.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Fair enough comment, My purpose for stating this was to express my view that
aluminum frames transfer road vibration much more readily than well made
steel frames. In fact, I would suggest that the proliferation of suspended
bikes was a direct result of most manufacturers going to aluminum
construction. At least one major benefit though, light weight at lower cost.

Grolsch

In the 80's aluminum hit the mtb market; they were advertised as
passive suspension. Trouble was after a couple of years those
underbuilt frames self-destructed. Since that time most aluminum
frames I've seen have been overbuilt and quite stiff. Seems no one
wants to have those frames self-destruct again. Give me steel or
titanium. But then again, perhaps someone will build what I want in
aluminum. YMMV

Enjoy,

Perry B

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Grolch said:

I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent...

Aluminium alloy [1] has approximately the same ratio of elastic
modulus to density as steel. Stiffness depends on the elastic modulus
of the material and the moment of inertia of the section. Aluminium
alloy frames are generally stiffer due the lower density allowing for
thicker wall, larger diameter tubing than if steel was used (with
buckling of the tube controlling minimum wall thickness). Therefore,
it is improper to characterize aluminium alloy frames as being stiffer
due to just the material used without mentioning the other factors.

[1] 6061 T-6 for Catrike's.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In the 80's aluminum hit the mtb market; they were advertised as
passive suspension. Trouble was after a couple of years those
underbuilt frames self-destructed. Since that time most aluminum
frames I've seen have been overbuilt and quite stiff. Seems no one
wants to have those frames self-destruct again. Give me steel or
titanium. But then again, perhaps someone will build what I want in
aluminum. YMMV

Enjoy,

Perry B

Early aluminum road frames like Alan were quite flexible, I don't remember
them as having a lot of failures. Then the French Pugeout (?) built some alu
frames using magnaformed swaging joining techniques and they suffered
failures at the lugs. Cannondale joined the market with welded aluminum
large diameter tubes that suffered strange deformations of the seat stays
when they were heat treated. These frames were very stiff and were liked by
the racers for their rigidity when sprinting. Aluminum doesn't have very
good fatigue resistance, so the frames are designed to be stiff. Then carbon
fibre joined he market. IIRC Teledyne first made cf frames that suffered lug
bond failures. Carbon fibre has some unique properties for a designer in
that the layup can be tailored for the stress and compliance and stiffness
can be part of the same assembly.

Suspension appeared in the mountain bike market, not to soften the ride, but
to improve handling at speed. You can't steer a bike unless the front wheel
is on the ground, and you can't apply power unless the back wheel is on the
ground. Plain and simple the market for mtb suspension was for racers.
Comfort was only a by product of suspension. It seems that in the mid
eighties when suspension was in its infancy the designers were trying to
make the mtbs lighter with increased suspension travel, which led to some
pretty radical frame geometries.

However in an aluminum road bike suspension can make a rigid frame ride
quite comfortably. Suspension adds complexity, weight and cost, but improves
handling and comfort.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

gotbent said:

However in an aluminum road bike suspension can make a rigid frame ride
quite comfortably. Suspension adds complexity, weight and cost, but improves
handling and comfort.

And potentially efficiency: if the only thing that moves up and over (or
down and into) bumps are the wheels then there's much less energy loss
from plain going forwards. The bumpier the road, the bigger the effect.
On bumpier backroads my suspended heavy tourer find it /much/ easier
to keep up with and even pass unsuspended carbon road confections...

Also good for when touring, as a suspended load doesn't have to be moved
up over bumps either. Not only easier for the rider, but for the
luggage: I stay in a big berry growing region and have summer trips out
to the pick-your-owns, and it's nice to have fruit on my return, rather
than fruit puree.

Suspension is one of those things I never saw much point in until I had
it (more by accident than design). Now I /really/ like it.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Feb 27, 7:22 pm, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Do the newer Primo Comets have better traction than those made in the
last century? When I changed from the stock 37-406 Comets to 44-406
Avocet [1] slicks, braking in the wet was considerably improved. The
smooth tread of the Avocets also likely helps (compared to the
"herringbone" pattern of the Comets), since patterned tread on
pavement is about as useful as an udder on a bull [2].

I cannot speak to this, as I have never used either pre-21st century
(Tire 1.0) Comets or Avocet slicks.

Quoted message said:

On real world roads, the wider moderate pressure tires will likely be
faster than the narrow high pressure tires, unless one is riding at
the 40+ kph range, where the reduction in frontal area becomes
significant (especially in combination with disc wheels). The increase
in ride comfort will also improve average long distance speeds on
unsuspended bicycles by reducing rider fatigue.

I'll take your word for this. ;-)

In my experience, I found a *slight* increase in average road speed
when I transitioned from the Comets to the Stelvios, perhaps .5 mph,
with no noticeable loss in comfort. This may well be psychological in
nature, as my average cruising speed on the flats is about 16-18 mph,
which is obviously well under your stated 40 kph figure.

Best,

Dan

gotbent said:

Early aluminum road frames like Alan were quite flexible, I don't remember
them as having a lot of failures.

A fair number of the Alans had separations at the lugs, but not
failures. And it was about as easy to fix as it could be - although it
would be a pain to notice the separation at the turn around point in a
century.

And some racers liked the flexy early aluminum bikes. Not exactly a
sprinters bike, but not everyone is a sprinter.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Kemosabe: please killfile the troll, it's not worth your time to
respond.

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

"Who is us, white man?" - Tonto

On Mar 1, 8:01 pm, "dlhii" TOP POSTED:

Quoted message said:

Kemosabe: please killfile the troll, it's not worth your time to
respond.

butbutbut [1], it is fun to torment Mr. Ed.

[1] Gratuitous g.danielism

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

On Mar 1, 8:01 pm, "dlhii" TOP POSTED:

Quoted message said:

Kemosabe: please killfile the troll, it's not worth your time to
respond.

butbutbut [1], it is fun to torment Mr. Ed.

[1] Gratuitous g.danielism

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Dan B. said:

On Feb 27, 7:22 pm, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Do the newer Primo Comets have better traction than those made in the
last century? When I changed from the stock 37-406 Comets to 44-406
Avocet [1] slicks, braking in the wet was considerably improved. The
smooth tread of the Avocets also likely helps (compared to the
"herringbone" pattern of the Comets), since patterned tread on
pavement is about as useful as an udder on a bull [2].

I cannot speak to this, as I have never used either pre-21st century
(Tire 1.0) Comets or Avocet slicks.

Quoted message said:

On real world roads, the wider moderate pressure tires will likely be
faster than the narrow high pressure tires, unless one is riding at
the 40+ kph range, where the reduction in frontal area becomes
significant (especially in combination with disc wheels). The increase
in ride comfort will also improve average long distance speeds on
unsuspended bicycles by reducing rider fatigue.

I'll take your word for this. ;-)

In my experience, I found a *slight* increase in average road speed
when I transitioned from the Comets to the Stelvios, perhaps .5 mph,
with no noticeable loss in comfort. This may well be psychological in
nature, as my average cruising speed on the flats is about 16-18 mph,
which is obviously well under your stated 40 kph figure.

When I purchased a RANS Rocket [1], it came with the only ISO 406-mm
Primo Comets available at the time; ISO 37-406 with tan sidewalls.
After wearing out the Comets in a few months, I replaced them with
Avocet 44-406 Freestyle smooth tread tires, and have also used 47-406
Tioga Comp Pool [2] smooth tread tires. Having done a lot of riding on
aggregate-asphalt emulsion (aka "chip seal"😉 and crushed stone
surfaces, I would not want to use a relatively narrow and fragile tire
such as the Schwalbe Stelvio. If most of my riding were on better
surfaces I might have a difference preference, but at my weight a RANS
Rocket bounces around too much with tires inflated above about 6-bar.
Tires narrower than the Avocet at this pressure (6-bar) or less
provide too little resistance to pinch flatting.

[1] By serial number it is a 1999 frame, but came with the 2000 seat
cover, cushion and foam, all of which RANS updated for 2000. The frame
design was unchanged, however.
[2] Out of production Japanese made tan sidewalls, not the newer and
lower quality Philippine made black sidewall.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Then move the conversation to one of the "DONT FEED THE TROLL" topics. You
can torment him all you want there.

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mar 1, 8:01 pm, "dlhii" TOP POSTED:

Quoted message said:

Kemosabe: please killfile the troll, it's not worth your time to
respond.

butbutbut [1], it is fun to torment Mr. Ed.

[1] Gratuitous g.danielism

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

On Mar 1, 9:38 pm, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Having done a lot of riding on
aggregate-asphalt emulsion (aka "chip seal"😉 and crushed stone
surfaces, I would not want to use a relatively narrow and fragile tire
such as the Schwalbe Stelvio. If most of my riding were on better
surfaces I might have a difference preference, but at my weight a RANS
Rocket bounces around too much with tires inflated above about 6-bar.

<snip>
I would tend to agree; my Stelvios are usually mounted for road rides
(weekend metric centuries), but I'll drop back to the Comets if I'm
spending any substantial amount of time on limestone.

I may well give the Avocets a shot when next I feel the need to
replace my rubber.

Best,

Dan