chain problems

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

(') said:

After having problems with a slipping chain I have discovered that the
chain is stretched and no longer aligns with the teeth on the chainset.
What has surprised me is the short time that this has taken to happen. I
bought the bike new mid December and have done a little over a thousand
miles on it up to now but this seems to be a very short time for a chain
to wear out. This is despite cleaning it every week and applying the
white spirit treatment every three weeks. How long should a good quality
chain last and how can I prolong the life of my chain over and above
regular cleaning?

Something badly wrong there. What lubricant are you using and how do you
apply it? Also, is this a quality bike or an el-cheapo?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

to err is human, to lisp divine
;; attributed to Kim Philby, oddly enough.

Adam Lea said:

After having problems with a slipping chain I have discovered that the chain
is stretched and no longer aligns with the teeth on the chainset. What has
surprised me is the short time that this has taken to happen. I bought the
bike new mid December and have done a little over a thousand miles on it up
to now but this seems to be a very short time for a chain to wear out. This
is despite cleaning it every week and applying the white spirit treatment
every three weeks. How long should a good quality chain last and how can I
prolong the life of my chain over and above regular cleaning?

I think you have cleaned and first of all greased the chain to death.
<sing>
Too much love will kill you - in the end.
</sing>

Let the chain as is until it get noisy, and then rub the chain clean with a
cloth and oil moderately (one drop per joint). Then spin the chain a few
rounds and rub it clean. The oil is only needed in the chain.

100 ml oil like Finish Line Cross Country, Oil of Rohloff or some cheaper
products will do it for years.

Kristian, doing write training
--
§23 StVO Sonstige Pflichten des Fahrzeugführers Abs.3 Satz 3:
Radfahrer und Führer von Krafträdern dürfen die Füße nur dann von den
Pedalen oder den Fußrasten nehmen, wenn der Straßenzustand das erfordert.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

(') said:

After having problems with a slipping chain I have discovered that the
chain is stretched and no longer aligns with the teeth on the chainset.
What has surprised me is the short time that this has taken to happen. I
bought the bike new mid December and have done a little over a thousand
miles on it up to now but this seems to be a very short time for a chain
to wear out. This is despite cleaning it every week and applying the
white spirit treatment every three weeks. How long should a good quality
chain last and how can I prolong the life of my chain over and above
regular cleaning?

Something badly wrong there. What lubricant are you using and how do you
apply it? Also, is this a quality bike or an el-cheapo?

I use finish line wet lubricant which I apply a drop or two to each link,
then add some to the rear cassette plus a bit on any other moving parts. I
then spin the pedals and change through all the gears to spread the
lubricant over the gears. I leave it for a while then wipe any excess off
with a piece of kitchen towel.

The bike is a Birdy tourer which, including extras, cost me £1,200 so not
what you would class as a cheap bike.

It is odd since my other bike is a relatively cheap mountain bike (£270 new
four years ago) but the chain on that lasted until a few months ago.

Adam Lea said:

I use finish line wet lubricant which I apply a drop or two to each link,

Quoted message said:

then add some to the rear cassette plus a bit on any other moving parts. I

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is not necessary.

Quoted message said:

then spin the pedals and change through all the gears to spread the

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And this will also only suck the dust onto the chain. --> will wear out
faster

Quoted message said:

lubricant over the gears. I leave it for a while then wipe any excess off
with a piece of kitchen towel.

The bike is a Birdy tourer which, including extras, cost me £1,200 so not
what you would class as a cheap bike.

It is odd since my other bike is a relatively cheap mountain bike (£270 new
four years ago) but the chain on that lasted until a few months ago.

Kristian
--
§23 StVO Sonstige Pflichten des Fahrzeugführers Abs.3 Satz 3:
Radfahrer und Führer von Krafträdern dürfen die Füße nur dann von den
Pedalen oder den Fußrasten nehmen, wenn der Straßenzustand das erfordert.

Adam Lea wrote on 17/02/2007 16:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I use finish line wet lubricant which I apply a drop or two to each link,
then add some to the rear cassette plus a bit on any other moving parts. I
then spin the pedals and change through all the gears to spread the
lubricant over the gears. I leave it for a while then wipe any excess off
with a piece of kitchen towel.

Unless you are applying the lubricant to a clean chain you are simply
washing the grit from the outside of the links where it does little harm
ot the inside where it grinds away at the pins and roller leading to a
worn chain. You do not need to coat the outsides or the cogs with oil.
That will only serve to stick any grit in place to be washed into the
chain when you next oil. If you are using it on the road with Finish
Line wet lubricant I would be inclined to clean and oil it once ever
five hundred miles or more unless it has been really wet.

Quoted message said:

The bike is a Birdy tourer which, including extras, cost me £1,200 so not
what you would class as a cheap bike.

Smaller wheeled bikes do tend to wear chains faster because the wheels
turns more times and the derailleur is closer to the road where the
chain picks up more grit.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

(') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

(') said:

After having problems with a slipping chain I have discovered that the
chain is stretched and no longer aligns with the teeth on the chainset.
What has surprised me is the short time that this has taken to happen.
I bought the bike new mid December and have done a little over a
thousand miles on it up to now but this seems to be a very short time
for a chain to wear out. This is despite cleaning it every week and
applying the white spirit treatment every three weeks. How long should
a good quality chain last and how can I prolong the life of my chain
over and above regular cleaning?

Something badly wrong there. What lubricant are you using and how do you
apply it? Also, is this a quality bike or an el-cheapo?

I use finish line wet lubricant which I apply a drop or two to each link,
then add some to the rear cassette plus a bit on any other moving parts.
I then spin the pedals and change through all the gears to spread the
lubricant over the gears. I leave it for a while then wipe any excess off
with a piece of kitchen towel.

The bike is a Birdy tourer which, including extras, cost me £1,200 so
not what you would class as a cheap bike.

Then all I can say is I'm very surprised. You're following pretty much the
the regime I would, and I get far longer life out of my chains.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Adam Lea wrote on 17/02/2007 16:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I use finish line wet lubricant which I apply a drop or two to each link,
then add some to the rear cassette plus a bit on any other moving parts.
I then spin the pedals and change through all the gears to spread the
lubricant over the gears. I leave it for a while then wipe any excess off
with a piece of kitchen towel.

Unless you are applying the lubricant to a clean chain you are simply
washing the grit from the outside of the links where it does little harm
ot the inside where it grinds away at the pins and roller leading to a
worn chain. You do not need to coat the outsides or the cogs with oil.
That will only serve to stick any grit in place to be washed into the
chain when you next oil. If you are using it on the road with Finish Line
wet lubricant I would be inclined to clean and oil it once ever five
hundred miles or more unless it has been really wet.

So when I have cleaned the bike, including the chain and cogs, is the chain
the only thing I need to lubricate?

After a clean and then a weeks riding the chain is black with grime again.
Should I not worry about this too much and just clean/relube once a month
(approx 500 miles)?

Adam Lea wrote on 17/02/2007 17:26 +0100:

Quoted message said:

So when I have cleaned the bike, including the chain and cogs, is the chain
the only thing I need to lubricate?

In the drivetrain yes apart from maybe the bearing on the jockey wheels
of the derailleur

Quoted message said:

After a clean and then a weeks riding the chain is black with grime again.
Should I not worry about this too much and just clean/relube once a month
(approx 500 miles)?

If you find it unsightly then just wipe the black off with a cloth,
otherwise just leave it - its doing no harm on the outside but will do a
lot of harm on the inside if you wash it in with fresh oil.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Adam Lea said:

So when I have cleaned the bike, including the chain and cogs, is the
chain the only thing I need to lubricate?

As well as the chain, occasionally lubricate brake and derailleur pivots.
Don't ever put lube on the cogs.

Quoted message said:

After a clean and then a weeks riding the chain is black with grime
again. Should I not worry about this too much and just clean/relube
once a month (approx 500 miles)?

Yes, unless you want to try a cleaner lube, eg ProLink or a wax based
product. Bear in mind that lubes that keep the chain cleaner don't tend to
lubricate or last as well as more ordinary ones, and they're more expensive
too.

Wipe the chain with a dry cloth after lubricating it. Excess lube on the
outside will only attract dirt.

~PB

Tony Raven said:

Adam Lea wrote on 17/02/2007 16:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I use finish line wet lubricant which I apply a drop or two to each link,
then add some to the rear cassette plus a bit on any other moving parts. I
then spin the pedals and change through all the gears to spread the
lubricant over the gears. I leave it for a while then wipe any excess off
with a piece of kitchen towel.

Unless you are applying the lubricant to a clean chain you are simply
washing the grit from the outside of the links where it does little harm
ot the inside where it grinds away at the pins and roller leading to a
worn chain. You do not need to coat the outsides or the cogs with oil.
That will only serve to stick any grit in place to be washed into the
chain when you next oil. If you are using it on the road with Finish
Line wet lubricant I would be inclined to clean and oil it once ever
five hundred miles or more unless it has been really wet.

Quoted message said:

The bike is a Birdy tourer which, including extras, cost me £1,200 so not
what you would class as a cheap bike.

Smaller wheeled bikes do tend to wear chains faster because the wheels
turns more times and the derailleur is closer to the road where the
chain picks up more grit.

All the same, 1000 miles and 2 months? Something very odd going on.

To the OP: do the sprockets look OK or do they have a bit of saw-tooth
shape to them?

Ben C wrote on 17/02/2007 18:03 +0100:

Quoted message said:

All the same, 1000 miles and 2 months? Something very odd going on.

I don't know. 3,000 miles is good for a modern narrow chain and given
the way it has been cleaned and depending on the nature of the dust and
dirt in the OP's neighbourhood it could be much shorter.
--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Tony Raven said:

If you find it unsightly then just wipe the black off with a cloth,
otherwise just leave it - its doing no harm on the outside but will
do a lot of harm on the inside if you wash it in with fresh oil.

If the outside of the chain is kept pretty clean (a tall order, I know),
lube could be simply added without doing very much harm. Some harm will be
done if the chain is used dry because one can't be bothered to clean it
quite frequently enough.

"One of the great controversies of chain maintenance is whether you should
oil a chain or not. The downside of oiling a chain is that the oil may carry
grit into the interior of the chain, and that this grit-mixed-with-oil will
act as grinding compound, causing accelerated wear. Many experts whose
judgement I highly respect hold this opinion, but I do not believe that this
is always the case. I have no doubt that this "grinding-compound" effect can
occur, but the severity of the risk depends upon the sort of dust/soil
prevalent in a given area, and, particularly, the oiling technique used.
......

"Most of the schmutz that contaminates a chain is stuff that is thrown up by
the front tire. This lands on the outer circumference of the chain. For this
reason, you should always oil a chain on the inner circumference, the side
that faces the sprockets. This decreases the tendency of the oil to carry
crud into the interior bearing surfaces of the chain. The best way to apply
the oil is with a drip-type oil can, along the top of the lower run of the
chain. This applies the oil to the cleanest part of the chain.

"I just run the pedals backwards while applying a line of oil down the
rollers. It takes 15 or 20 seconds to oil a chain this way. In the case of
old-fashioned bushing-type chains, I usually run the oil along the left side
only, in hope that the clean oil will be able to flush through the bushings
from left to right. I have used many different oils, my favorite is Phil
Wood Tenacious oil. "

- http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html#lube

~PB

Ben C said:

All the same, 1000 miles and 2 months? Something very odd going on.

It's not all that uncommon for a chain at that point to be worn enough to
wear the sprockets, but enough to skip on them I agree is odd.

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, Pete Biggs

(') said:

Adam Lea said:

So when I have cleaned the bike, including the chain and cogs, is the
chain the only thing I need to lubricate?

As well as the chain, occasionally lubricate brake and derailleur pivots.
Don't ever put lube on the cogs.

Quoted message said:

After a clean and then a weeks riding the chain is black with grime
again. Should I not worry about this too much and just clean/relube
once a month (approx 500 miles)?

Yes, unless you want to try a cleaner lube, eg ProLink or a wax based
product. Bear in mind that lubes that keep the chain cleaner don't tend
to lubricate or last as well as more ordinary ones, and they're more
expensive too.

H'mmm. I'm experimenting with White Lightning Epic on my winter bike this
winter. It's much cleaner than Finish Line Cross Country, which is what I
used to use (and still use on mountain bikes), but it has fairly limited
life in wet conditions.

Quoted message said:

Wipe the chain with a dry cloth after lubricating it. Excess lube on the
outside will only attract dirt.

But give plenty of time between lubricating and wiping - lubricate at
night, wipe in the morning. The lubricant penetrates in fairly slowly, so
give it time.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

<p>Schroedinger's cat is <blink><strong>NOT</strong></blink> dead.</p>

In article <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

After having problems with a slipping chain I have discovered that the chain
is stretched and no longer aligns with the teeth on the chainset.

You might have a knackered cassette as well if it's that bad.

Quoted message said:

What has
surprised me is the short time that this has taken to happen. I bought the
bike new mid December and have done a little over a thousand miles on it up
to now but this seems to be a very short time for a chain to wear out. This
is despite cleaning it every week and applying the white spirit treatment
every three weeks.

What sort of chain, what sort of riding conditions, what lubricant did
you use?

Quoted message said:

How long should a good quality chain last

Depends ...

Quoted message said:

and how can I
prolong the life of my chain over and above regular cleaning?

Use a decent lubricant as required.

"Ben C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

To the OP: do the sprockets look OK or do they have a bit of saw-tooth
shape to them?

Yes the sprockets look OK. I have put a new chain on today and it works a
treat.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

(') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea
([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

> After having problems with a slipping chain I have discovered that the
> chain is stretched and no longer aligns with the teeth on the chainset.
> What has surprised me is the short time that this has taken to happen.
> I bought the bike new mid December and have done a little over a
> thousand miles on it up to now but this seems to be a very short time
> for a chain to wear out. This is despite cleaning it every week and
> applying the white spirit treatment every three weeks. How long should
> a good quality chain last and how can I prolong the life of my chain
> over and above regular cleaning?

Something badly wrong there. What lubricant are you using and how do you
apply it? Also, is this a quality bike or an el-cheapo?

I use finish line wet lubricant which I apply a drop or two to each link,
then add some to the rear cassette plus a bit on any other moving parts.
I then spin the pedals and change through all the gears to spread the
lubricant over the gears. I leave it for a while then wipe any excess off
with a piece of kitchen towel.

The bike is a Birdy tourer which, including extras, cost me 1,200 so
not what you would class as a cheap bike.

Then all I can say is I'm very surprised. You're following pretty much the
the regime I would, and I get far longer life out of my chains.

I have bought a cheap replacement chain (£11 from LBS) and I will follow the
advice given here about cleaning it (I have obviously been doing it wrong)
and I shall see how long this one lasts. If this one wears quickly then I
shall try a more expensive chain.

Pete Biggs said:

Ben C said:

All the same, 1000 miles and 2 months? Something very odd going on.

It's not all that uncommon for a chain at that point to be worn enough to
wear the sprockets, but enough to skip on them I agree is odd.

I wondered if the sprockets might have been worn to start with, since
I'm trying to account for the mysterious accelerated wear: suppose a
completely toasted cassette had somehow found its way onto the OP's
two-month old bike by mistake. Doesn't seem to be what happened though.

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

After having problems with a slipping chain I have discovered that the
chain
is stretched and no longer aligns with the teeth on the chainset.

You might have a knackered cassette as well if it's that bad.

Quoted message said:

What has
surprised me is the short time that this has taken to happen. I bought
the
bike new mid December and have done a little over a thousand miles on it
up
to now but this seems to be a very short time for a chain to wear out.
This
is despite cleaning it every week and applying the white spirit treatment
every three weeks.

What sort of chain, what sort of riding conditions, what lubricant did
you use?

SRAM PC38 8 speed chain.

The vast majority of my riding is on country lanes. After any prolonged rain
mud can be washed onto the road (or deposited by farm vehicles), so I guess
this may contribute to wear and tear.

I use Finish Line Cross Country Wet Lubricant and typically clean the chain
and re-lubricate once a week.