Pepper Spray

slow verb said:

I think roadies should keep pepper spray handy, we must
protect ourselves.

A mate got "hassled" by a small group of youths the other morning
whilst he was out training.

An old style Zefal pump is a handy thing to defend yourself with - it
inflicted sufficient damage on two of them so as to cause them to lose
"interest" and the other jackals became more interested in assisting
them from the scene than in taking my mate's bike off him.

--

slow verb said:

Here is one

http://www.kitbag.com.au/prod470.htm

I was reading that 'Cyclist Bashed' post and was a little disturbed.
I have been on the receiving end of feral abuse in the past.
I would only use the spray if I was going to be attacked.
I also have a short fuse (which I am working on) and I don't
like taking [censored] from loser feral scum, so I feel particularly vulnerable.

I think roadies should keep pepper spray handy, we must
protect ourselves.

I think you'll find this is defined as a concealed weapon.. isn't
allowed.

As Blue Heeler says, go the aluminium frame pump.

Blue Heeler said:

slow verb said:

I think roadies should keep pepper spray handy, we must
protect ourselves.

A mate got "hassled" by a small group of youths the other morning
whilst he was out training.

An old style Zefal pump is a handy thing to defend yourself with - it
inflicted sufficient damage on two of them so as to cause them to lose
"interest" and the other jackals became more interested in assisting
them from the scene than in taking my mate's bike off him.

I'm not convinced responding to morons with further acts of violence is
necessarily the way to go.

quote='Duncan'On Feb 1 said:

Here is one

http://www.kitbag.com.au/prod470.htm

I was reading that 'Cyclist Bashed' post and was a little disturbed.
I have been on the receiving end of feral abuse in the past.
I would only use the spray if I was going to be attacked.
I also have a short fuse (which I am working on) and I don't
like taking [censored] from loser feral scum, so I feel particularly vulnerable.

I think roadies should keep pepper spray handy, we must
protect ourselves.

I think you'll find this is defined as a concealed weapon.. isn't
allowed.

As Blue Heeler says, go the aluminium frame pump.[/QUOTE]
Would it be defined as concealed if it was velcroed to the frame? It's in plain sight...

Duncan said:

As Blue Heeler says, go the aluminium frame pump.

After you've wrapped it around the first scone, what do you do then.

Bing, I have a cruddy old heavy steel pump that could sit nicely in the
front pannier.

Quoted message said:

ray said:

Blue Heeler said:

slow verb said:

I think roadies should keep pepper spray handy, we must
protect ourselves.

A mate got "hassled" by a small group of youths the other morning
whilst he was out training.

An old style Zefal pump is a handy thing to defend yourself with -
it inflicted sufficient damage on two of them so as to cause them
to lose "interest" and the other jackals became more interested in
assisting them from the scene than in taking my mate's bike off him.

I'm not convinced responding to morons with further acts of violence
is necessarily the way to go.

Whilst philosophically I have some sympathy for your belief, the
reality is that had my friend not acted as he did, his bike would have
been stolen and he would have beaten to a pulp.

Given the same circumstances I would make the same choice.

--

ray said:

I'm not convinced responding to morons with further acts of violence is
necessarily the way to go.

And remember, a weapon can be used *against* you as well. From what I was taught in self defense that during a altercation, a wiser tactic was to keep a clear head over than joining the fray. So many situations on the road or in public life occur *not* because people are violent nutters, but more because of plain ol' stuffups in judgement and to a lesser degree, opportunist tendencies. Acting out of self defense should only be done if all other options are gone. And unfortunately, sometimes you do have to go there.

"Terryc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Duncan said:

As Blue Heeler says, go the aluminium frame pump.

After you've wrapped it around the first scone, what do you do then.

Bing, I have a cruddy old heavy steel pump that could sit nicely in the
front pannier.

Quoted message said:

Hit them with the bike :P

Boostland said:

Hit them with the bike :P

Oh, if only I could still lift my bicycle off the ground.

Boostland said:

"Terryc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Duncan said:

As Blue Heeler says, go the aluminium frame pump.

After you've wrapped it around the first scone, what do you do then.

Bing, I have a cruddy old heavy steel pump that could sit nicely in the
front pannier.

Hit them with the bike :P

When they started recalling all the u-locks (can't recall what they were
called) I left mine attached to the seat tube and bought a new lock. The
u-lock was very handy for swiping at chasing dogs and would have made a
handy defense implement if required with human problems.

DaveB

slow verb said:

Here is one

http://www.kitbag.com.au/prod470.htm

Actually, I doubt if this is legal in NSW, unless you are a police officer.

"Blue Heeler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

slow verb said:

I think roadies should keep pepper spray handy, we must
protect ourselves.

A mate got "hassled" by a small group of youths the other morning
whilst he was out training.

An old style Zefal pump is a handy thing to defend yourself with - it
inflicted sufficient damage on two of them so as to cause them to lose
"interest" and the other jackals became more interested in assisting
them from the scene than in taking my mate's bike off him.

--

That would "escalate the violence". the morons would then be out to kill
you. Then some kindly judge would decide that they "were provoked" and
that's why they had to kill you. I think the wisest option is to try to get
the rego of their car and report the matter to the police (I know it's
difficult sometimes), but don't cause a confrontation. Just swallow your
pride and ride on.

Henry M.

hemyd said:

"Blue Heeler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

slow verb said:

I think roadies should keep pepper spray handy, we must
protect ourselves.

A mate got "hassled" by a small group of youths the other morning
whilst he was out training.

An old style Zefal pump is a handy thing to defend yourself with -
it inflicted sufficient damage on two of them so as to cause them
to lose "interest" and the other jackals became more interested in
assisting them from the scene than in taking my mate's bike off him.

--

That would "escalate the violence". the morons would then be out to
kill you. Then some kindly judge would decide that they "were
provoked" and that's why they had to kill you. I think the wisest
option is to try to get the rego of their car and report the matter
to the police (I know it's difficult sometimes), but don't cause a
confrontation. Just swallow your pride and ride on.

Henry M.

You know, a wise man once said "opinions are like bum holes, everyone
has one". May I gently suggest that you were not there, and that to
make a blanket statement that the employment of violence will
inevitably result in an overall escalation of violence is the kind of
apologist twaddle that is at the root of many of the behavioural
problems that currently beset our society.

There was no car involved, merely a pack of youths on foot, full of a
mixture of alcohol, drugs and the knowledge that life on the street is
pretty much "it" for them combined with a well practiced "skill" of
taking from others the things they will never legitimately own.

Add to the mix my mate who was on his normal morning fitness ride and
who is smart enough to avoid locations where "street people" congregate.

It was the youths who were in the "wrong" (or at least out of
character) spot, not my mate.

In the circumstances by the time he fully appreciate what was happening
he was pretty much surrounded.

He had a choice:-

He could hand over his bike, wallet and phone, and then in all
probability get a kicking for his trouble.

Or, he could make a stand.
In causing as much "damage" as possible to the clear ring-leaders, he
deprived the mob of jackals of their directing mind and will. when it
became clear that he was both prepared to defend himself and his
property, and was capable of causing damage to anyone silly enough to
come within reach, they slunk off like the mongrels they are.

I occasionally have to ride through a part of town at night where I
have met similar scum. I have a collapsible baton - known as an "asp"
if you are a "The Bill" watcher, the one I have is about 250mm stored
and extends to a little over 600mm and has a hard rubber covered weight
on the business end.

My possession of it is illegal in the State in which I live, if I am
ever "called" for using it (and I have used it - twice) I'll take my
chances happily.

It is however not illegal as such to actually use it, although there
are a range of assault and weapon charges that could potentially be
brought, they all have very good excuses and defences available.

The bottom line legally is that you are expected to run if you can
where there is only the risk of property offences, but you are allowed
to defend yourself against offences to the person, providing that such
"defence" is not excessive. One person on their own laying into a group
of marauding dingos with a zefal pump (or an asp for that matter)
probably will not constitute "excessive" force - actually killing one
of the buggers might, certainly shooting them would, but merely
knocking them about a bit - never.

--

Blue Heeler said:

It is however not illegal as such to actually use it, although there
are a range of assault and weapon charges that could potentially be
brought, they all have very good excuses and defences available.

Simply by carrying an illegal weapon, self defence becomes a very flimsy
argument for you to use. The law states that you must use the minimum
force required - an illegal weapon pretty much says you were looking for
trouble. Whether that is the case or not doesn't matter if the other bloke
has a good lawyer.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"...and trogdor smote the kerrek. And all was laid to burnination."
- Strongbad

In aus.bicycle on 03 Feb 2007 07:43:21 GMT

Dave said:

Blue Heeler said:

It is however not illegal as such to actually use it, although there
are a range of assault and weapon charges that could potentially be
brought, they all have very good excuses and defences available.

Simply by carrying an illegal weapon, self defence becomes a very flimsy
argument for you to use. The law states that you must use the minimum
force required - an illegal weapon pretty much says you were looking for
trouble. Whether that is the case or not doesn't matter if the other bloke
has a good lawyer.

My understanding is that there is a clear difference between "self
defence" and "fighting".

THe minute you don't take the opportunity to get the hell out, then it
is "fighting" and the law doesn't really give a damn who started it.

And yes, if you carry a weapon you are clearly expecting trouble, who
is to say you weren't looking for it?

NOthing's certain of course, and you might manage to win the court
case.

Meanwhile you have spent a shedload of money, you've spent a lot of
time you should be at work in court, and the cops have you down as
"one to watch".

Zebee

hemyd said:

I think the wisest option is to try to get
the rego of their car and report the matter to the police

Based on my experiences, that is a totally useless effort.
"It is your word against them"

Dave said:

Blue Heeler said:

It is however not illegal as such to actually use it, although
there are a range of assault and weapon charges that could
potentially be brought, they all have very good excuses and
defences available.

Simply by carrying an illegal weapon, self defence becomes a very
flimsy argument for you to use.

That is incorrect.

Quoted message said:

The law states that you must use the
minimum force required - an illegal weapon pretty much says you were
looking for trouble.

No it doesn't

Quoted message said:

Whether that is the case or not doesn't matter
if the other bloke has a good lawyer.

I'm little concerned at how good the other lawyer is.

--

Zebee Johnstone said:

My understanding is that there is a clear difference between "self
defence" and "fighting".

That is correct as far as it goes.

Quoted message said:

THe minute you don't take the opportunity to get the hell out, then it
is "fighting"

Not necessarily true. I'd suggest a re-read of my original post on this
topic.

Quoted message said:

and the law doesn't really give a damn who started it.

Not correct, providing we are still talking "self defence".

Quoted message said:

And yes, if you carry a weapon you are clearly expecting trouble, who
is to say you weren't looking for it?

Simply not so.

Quoted message said:

NOthing's certain of course, and you might manage to win the court
case.

I have absolutely no fear on that subject as I would be very careful
not to do anything or say anything (in front of witnesses) that would
in any way prejudice my remaining quite safe from and such action.

Quoted message said:

Meanwhile you have spent a shedload of money, you've spent a lot of
time you should be at work in court, and the cops have you down as
"one to watch".

All it would cost me is my time and the the loss of earnings whilst I
dealt with it.

--

In aus.bicycle on 3 Feb 2007 12:46:09 GMT

Blue Heeler said:

Dave said:

Blue Heeler said:

It is however not illegal as such to actually use it, although
there are a range of assault and weapon charges that could
potentially be brought, they all have very good excuses and
defences available.

Simply by carrying an illegal weapon, self defence becomes a very
flimsy argument for you to use.

That is incorrect.

You are making a lot of very short blunt all encompassing statements,
got anything to back them up?

Such as case law, legislation, any kind of legal publication?

Zebee