Mont Ventoux

Vino said:

I'm just wondering, why isn't Mont ventoux ever included in the Tour. It hasn't been used since 2002 when Virenque won it.

It's kind of hard to work into the formula of Flat - TT - Mountains - Rollers - Mountains - Flat - TT. Since it's neither an Alp or a Pirineo.

And Armstrong gifted that one to Virenque in 2002.

DiabloScott said:

It's kind of hard to work into the formula of Flat - TT - Mountains - Rollers - Mountains - Flat - TT. Since it's neither an Alp or a Pirineo.

And Armstrong gifted that one to Virenque in 2002.

nonon to pantani

Armstrong gave Ventoux to Pantani in 2000, not Virenque in 2002. But i see what you mean about it not really being either an alp or a pyrenne. There's no mountains of the same size anywhere near it.

Vino said:

Armstrong gave Ventoux to Pantani in 2000, not Virenque in 2002. But i see what you mean about it not really being either an alp or a pyrenne. There's no mountains of the same size anywhere near it.

After the Pantani debacle in 2000, Armstrong learned the proper way to gift a stage was to look like you made a tactical error (in this case, attacking too late). Since neither Virenque nor the guy who got second was a GC threat he played it to perfection (you guys didn't even know!) and he lost zero time to anybody that mattered. His ascension to the ranks of cycling's über elite was complete.

I highly doubt he woud've made a gift of Ventoux a second time. Have you read his book? It says Eddy Merckx told him the strongest man should win Ventoux, and you should never make a gift of Ventoux. It also said Armstrong was angry and regretted his actions. He probably actually did attack too late, and was unable to catch Virenque. Also it probably helped Virenque was juiced to the gills on EPO.

now that's a hill!!

if they can have the beginning stages of the tour de france in ENGLAND, they can surely include ventoux down in one of the southern stages...

if that's what you're saying, vino, i agree.
it's an amazing peak.
check it out on google earth.

DiabloScott said:

After the Pantani debacle in 2000, Armstrong learned the proper way to gift a stage was to look like you made a tactical error (in this case, attacking too late).

The Armstrong-Pantani tiff had nothing to do with how it looked at the line. It happened because Armstrong could not stand to let anyone think that Pantani beat him, so he shot his mouth off to the press. Pantani took it as an insult, and rightly so. The proper way to gift a stage is to make a gracious comment afterward that the other guy was too strong at the end, not to devalue his accomplishment.

I don't think Virenque was gifted his win. The big boys spent too much time on the lower slopes watching each other and it was not critical to catch Virenque.

Vino said:

Also it probably helped Virenque was juiced to the gills on EPO.

Perhaps, but not likely as much as Arsmtrong was. Virenque was always able to suffer enough to pull off the big exploit.

Bro Deal said:

Perhaps, but not likely as much as Arsmtrong was. Virenque was always able to suffer enough to pull off the big exploit.

I'm sorry..... Cancer is pulling off "suffering a exploit".

Riding a bike up a small hill..... And it is a small hill if you have ridden the Rockies in Colorado, is not really suffering. The *only suffering attributed to Richard V is the suffering the fans endure every year watching him representing the French at the TDF.

*Oh ...... And the suffering we have to go through on every thread when the anti-Lancers just don't get it........
So let me explain it to you. Everyone who is a cycling fan has their mind made up concerning Lance. He is yesterdays news. You are not going to bring any new news to the thread concerning Lance. Give it a rest......
Lance has moved on...... even though he probably does have fond memeories whenever he looks at the trophy case and sees the shiny 7 TDF trophys sitting there......

wolfix said:

Cancer is pulling off "suffering a exploit".

What does a few weeks of chemo have to do with Virenque being able to hold off the chasers on Ventoux? Virenque has a long history of pulling off epic victories. It's just that most American "fans" never give him credit for it.

wolfix said:

Riding a bike up a small hill..... And it is a small hill if you have ridden the Rockies in Colorado, is not really suffering.

Uh-huh. Riiiight...

I wouldn't know anything about that. It's not like I live where I can ride to eight different ski resorts. Nope. I don't know anything about climbing in the Rockies. Not a thing. 😉

Holding off the TdF pack while climbing an molehill will cause suffering, It's the competition that makes things difficult. not the terrain. If you climb slowly enough with low enough gears then any climb is easy.

wolfix said:

And the suffering we have to go through on every thread when the anti-Lancers just don't get it........

I think the suffering we have to endure from Lance homers who fly off the handle is far more grating. The response would make you think it is bobke having his or his son's sexuality questioned. Let me put it into context for you. Someone saying that Virenque was not caught because he was loaded with EPO is rather ironic when you consider Armstrong's EPO use. I have no problem pointing it out because not to allows people like you to perpetuate the biggest fraud in the history of sport.

I also find it rich that people like you want to completely ignore Armstrong's doping, yet treat Virenque like he some kind of leper. As a fan I'll take one of Virenque's escapes any day over Armstrong's robotic wins.

wolfix said:

I'm sorry..... Cancer is pulling off "suffering a exploit".

Riding a bike up a small hill..... And it is a small hill if you have ridden the Rockies in Colorado, is not really suffering. The *only suffering attributed to Richard V is the suffering the fans endure every year watching him representing the French at the TDF.

*Oh ...... And the suffering we have to go through on every thread when the anti-Lancers just don't get it........
So let me explain it to you. Everyone who is a cycling fan has their mind made up concerning Lance. He is yesterdays news. You are not going to bring any new news to the thread concerning Lance. Give it a rest......
Lance has moved on...... even though he probably does have fond memeories whenever he looks at the trophy case and sees the shiny 7 TDF trophys sitting there......

This is a cycling forum not a cancer forum. We are here, or should be, to discuss cycling matters. That Amrstrong had cancer and survived is another story and does not bestow upon him sainthood. Through personal experience I know all about the pain and suffering that cancer brings upon people but if I wanted to talk about it I would go to a cancer forum. Whether or not Lance doped has nothing at all to do with his having suffered and survived cancer.

On another, lighter note - I have ridden shed loads of the big name Tour climbs and Ventoux was one of the easiest (or should I say, least hard). It probably helped that I rode it on a cold, rainy day - most riders says it is the heat that really pushes them over the edge.

Vino said:

I highly doubt he woud've made a gift of Ventoux a second time.

The French love Virenque (exactly why is a bit of a mystery but he is pretty good looking), so by allowing him to win the stage, Armstrong earned the respect and adoration of French fans forever. He remains a master strategist to this day.

You still think Virenque was given the win? Have you even read the other posts here? And I'll remind you Bro Deal, that Virenque was part of that 1998 Festina team. Need I say anymore? And Lance has never failed a doping test, unless you count saddle sore creams. Until someone finds real proof, Ill stand by my opinion that Lance has'nt ever doped. And since when did this turn into a Virenque vs Armstrong Forum? I thought it was about Ventoux.

Vino said:

You still think Virenque was given the win? Have you even read the other posts here? And I'll remind you Bro Deal, that Virenque was part of that 1998 Festina team. Need I say anymore? And Lance has never failed a doping test, unless you count saddle sore creams. Until someone finds real proof, Ill stand by my opinion that Lance has'nt ever doped. And since when did this turn into a Virenque vs Armstrong Forum? I thought it was about Ventoux.

LOL, you are obviously new to this forum. You just opened a big can of worms with that post. Stand by for heavy rolls.

Whatever. I've seen worse.

Vino said:

Whatever. I've seen worse.

I highlt doubt that. These guys are a very special case.

Forget Armstrong.
Forget Pantani.
Forget Virenque.

For me the best win on a Mt Ventoux stage was 1994 - big Eros Poli's stage win.
The huge Italian broke away on a solo dash - crested Mt Ventoux by himself and won the stage in to Carpentras.
Great win and much better entertainment all round.

BigMig and Pantani were marking each other on that stage if I recall.

Vino said:

Have you even read the other posts here? And I'll remind you Bro Deal, that Virenque was part of that 1998 Festina team. Need I say anymore? And Lance has never failed a doping test, unless you count saddle sore creams.

Virenque never failed a test either. Armstrong on the other hand had his urine retrotested and it was found he was using more EPO than anyone else in the 1999 Tour. You can believe the earth is flat for all I care, but the facts clearly support that Armstron was using massive amounts of dope. Virenque fessed up to what he did. Armstrong continues to deceive medical patients with his fairytales. Disgraceful.

Vino said:

And since when did this turn into a Virenque vs Armstrong Forum? I thought it was about Ventoux.

You are the one who brought up Virenque's EPO use as a way to explain why he was not caught by Armstrong. You should not be too surprised when someone points out Armstrong's own dope use.