removing left crank retaining bolt

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Pearson
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas on
how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

"Brian G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a short
length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage and then using
that leverage with a vengeance. Alternatively you can give the allen key
a couple of judicious taps with a hammer. Take care with either method
because a sudden release of the bolt can cause you a mischief.

--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
chamfered entries?

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Pearson
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
on
how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

How do I do that?

Geoff Pearson said:

"Brian G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a short
length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage and then using
that leverage with a vengeance. Alternatively you can give the allen key
a couple of judicious taps with a hammer. Take care with either method
because a sudden release of the bolt can cause you a mischief.

--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
chamfered entries?

Oh, sorry, it's a while since I had a bike with that type of bolt, but I
remember the difficulty with removing them without the correct type of
socket. You need to find a "deep" socket rather than the standard one.
IIRC my local Halfords stocks them.

--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

Geoff Pearson said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Pearson
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt
holding the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I
wait - any ideas on
how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

How do I do that ?

Depends..... here's the two I'm used to:

If its an old style axle with bearings in races, then C-spanner (*) to undo
the lockring on the LHS of the bottom bracket, then rotate the bearing shell
to unscrew. The shell (and lockring) will extract from the frame, bringing
the axle and the LH bearing race. The RH bearing race might come as well, or
falls off in the RH shell.

If its a new style cartridge bearing, then you don't. Those extract from
the RH of the frame.

The other types are the really modern "external bearing" types. No idea on
those, my bikes are not fashionable enough to have them.

(* Or, strong screwdriver and tap it round with a hammer )

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian G
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Oh, sorry, it's a while since I had a bike with that type of bolt, but I
remember the difficulty with removing them without the correct type of
socket. You need to find a "deep" socket rather than the standard one.
IIRC my local Halfords stocks them.

ISTR some need a thin-wall socket, not a deep one. The one on the crank
puller is usually up to the job if used carefully.

Geoff Pearson said:

"Brian G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt
holding the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I
wait - any ideas on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and
chainset. The BB sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a
short length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage and
then using that leverage with a vengeance. Alternatively you can
give the allen key a couple of judicious taps with a hammer. Take
care with either method because a sudden release of the bolt can
cause you a mischief. --
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part
of my problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make
teh perfect grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that
don't have chamfered entries?

Lots, but not cheapy socket sets. You'll also find hexagonal, rather than
12-facet, sockets, which I find work better.
Need to visit a tool supplier to find them. Try the sort of place that
supplies the car repair trade (on an industrial estate, in general, not a
Halfords!).

However, with your existing sockets, assuming you've not rounded the old
nut(*), I would try:
Socket, then 4-6in extender, then T-bar (or ratchet).
Put a long piece of strong pipe over the T-bar (eg. 3ft of car exhaust
pipe).
Arrange crank so that it is wedged against something on floor (big lump of
wood under it, with force going down).

Arrange socket so that T-bar (and pipe) is roughly horizontal, and
convinient to put foot on end. Use hands to guide the extender bar, keeps
the socket straight and well pushed onto nut. Press foot gently and firmly
down on end of pipe. Should shift it.

(* if you have, and its rounded badly, then I think I'd look at drilling it
out if you cannot remove the axle as described in another post. I assume
you are discarding stuff )

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

In article <[email hidden]>, Nigel Cliffe
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

If its a new style cartridge bearing, then you don't. Those extract from
the RH of the frame.

Depends on the type - some have plastic 'cups' and can be removed with
careful application of a large hammer on the end of the axle. Of course
they probably won't be reusable after removal.

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Pearson
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

How do I do that?

Use slip-joint pliers to remove the lockring and unscrew the adjusting
cup. Once the lockring is loose you might be able to undo the lockring
and cup at the same time by gripping very tightly so they both turn
together.

Geoff Pearson said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Pearson
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
on
how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

How do I do that?

Indeed. Perhaps Rob missed the fact it was a left hand crank and so it
is the adjustable side if it is an old style BB for which you need to
remove the crank to get at the cup. If it was the RH side it would be
possible to remove the fixed cup if you had an open ended fixed cup
spanner. My old BB tools have a ring spanner for the fixed cup :-(
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

"Phil Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Pearson
[email hidden] says...
> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt
> holding
> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any
> ideas
> on
> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
> sounds
> like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>
Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

How do I do that?

Indeed. Perhaps Rob missed the fact it was a left hand crank and so it
is the adjustable side if it is an old style BB for which you need to
remove the crank to get at the cup. If it was the RH side it would be
possible to remove the fixed cup if you had an open ended fixed cup
spanner. My old BB tools have a ring spanner for the fixed cup :-(
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

It is on a 1999 aluminium frame Specialized Hard Rock A1 Comp. I think it
will be visiting the Edinburgh Bike Coop to fix this, fit a new BB and a
new chainset - which no has sharks teeth.

Geoff Pearson said:

thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part
of my problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make
teh perfect grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that
don't have chamfered entries?

The crank remover from www.mikedyason.com comes with a 14mm hex socket
specially designed for the job. It is chamfered - but this shouldn't
matter.

~PB

In article <[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

How do I do that?

Indeed. Perhaps Rob missed the fact it was a left hand crank

Nope :-)

Quoted message said:

and so it
is the adjustable side if it is an old style BB for which you need to
remove the crank to get at the cup.

I haven't even got to the "hacksaw the crank or grind through the axle"
bit yet.

Quoted message said:

If it was the RH side it would be
possible to remove the fixed cup if you had an open ended fixed cup
spanner.

Depends on the chainset - some come so close to the edge of the fixed
cup so you really can't get in there with a chunky open-ender and a thin
one won't grip firmly enough.

Quoted message said:

My old BB tools have a ring spanner for the fixed cup :-(

I no longer have tools for fitting CCB BBs - pliers and a bench vice
(and occasionally a punch and hammer) do OK for removing them.

Brian G said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"Brian G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson wrote:
> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
> on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
> sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a short
length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
chamfered entries?

Quoted message said:

Oh, sorry, it's a while since I had a bike with that type of bolt, but I
remember the difficulty with removing them without the correct type of
socket. You need to find a "deep" socket rather than the standard one.
IIRC my local Halfords stocks them.

It's part of the crank puller in my toolkit. One like this
http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=63&products_id=5101

As Geoff says it's the lack of chamfer on the inside edges that
enables it to get a good grip on the rather thin bolt head.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Geoff Pearson said:

thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
chamfered entries?

Chamfered socket + angle-grinder = non-chamfered socket

--
Andrew

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

How do I do that?

Indeed. Perhaps Rob missed the fact it was a left hand crank

Nope :-)

Quoted message said:

and so it
is the adjustable side if it is an old style BB for which you need to
remove the crank to get at the cup.

I haven't even got to the "hacksaw the crank or grind through the axle"
bit yet.

I've been there :-)
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Nigel Cliffe
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

If its a new style cartridge bearing, then you don't. Those extract
from the RH of the frame.

Depends on the type - some have plastic 'cups' and can be removed with
careful application of a large hammer on the end of the axle. Of
course they probably won't be reusable after removal.

The one I am familiar with (Shimano UN72 ?) has a plastic support screwed
into the LHS thread, and metal screw-in component on RHS which carries the
cartridge.
The LHS plasic part stops the cartridge waggling around in the frame.
Both are removed with a fancy socket, with lots of castellations around its
edge.
With LH crank still fitted to axle, it would not be possible to remove the
cartridge without resort to hacksaw or angle grinder.

I'm sure there are other variations, parts makers seem to be falling over
themselves to come up with yet more incompatible upgrades to long
established effective bicycle parts.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Geoff Pearson said:

"Brian G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson said:

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a short
length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage and then using
that leverage with a vengeance. Alternatively you can give the allen key
a couple of judicious taps with a hammer. Take care with either method
because a sudden release of the bolt can cause you a mischief.

--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
chamfered entries?

Buy the proper Shimano extractor. It's quite cheap, everywhere sells it
and it has a suitably thin-walled 14mm socket built in, which you use
with a large adjustable spanner.

Geoff Pearson said:

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas on
how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

The solution I found after trying unsuccessfully for several months to
remove DW's left crank was to take it to LBS. They did it in seconds
and charged two quid - quite a bit less than I'd already spent on tools
that didn't do the job.

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine