.Yassoo 800's & Marathon time prediction

What was your time in the race three weeks prior? How many long runs did you do in training, and
what was their length? What about food intake during your race/training? It's tough to answer your
question about how to improve without all of this information. Michelle Jeff <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Didn't even come close for me.

I think I know the answer to this, but wanted validation from other, more experienced runners. I
was able to run 10 X 800m repeats in an average time of 3:30. Thus hoping for a 3:30 marathon
finish. No go. Did it in 4:30 (although it was my second maraton in 3 weeks). Any way....felt
strong the first half, then faded. In planning next years raqcing season, the conclusion I've come
to based on this little experiment is that I need more endurance training, not nescesarrily more
speed (although I wold still do 1xweek track session).

Am I correct in that assumption. Or do I need more speed training?

Jeff said:

Didn't even come close for me.

I think I know the answer to this, but wanted validation from other, more experienced runners. I
was able to run 10 X 800m repeats in an average time of 3:30. Thus hoping for a 3:30 marathon
finish. No go. Did it in 4:30 (although it was my second maraton in 3 weeks). Any way....felt
strong the first half, then faded. In planning next years raqcing season, the conclusion I've come
to based on this little experiment is that I need more endurance training, not nescesarrily more
speed (although I wold still do 1xweek track session).

Am I correct in that assumption. Or do I need more speed training?

Yassos were pretty accurate for me: I did them in 2:50-3:00 and finished marathon in 2:59:00. Do you
need more speed training? I don't think so - I ran 3:30 marathon practically without any speed work.
IMHO it's more endurance training for You. Yassos can be useful predictor if you have done your long
runs properly.

hampi

Jeff said:

Didn't even come close for me.

Quoted message said:

I think I know the answer to this, but wanted validation from other, more experienced runners. I
was able to run 10 X 800m repeats in an average time of 3:30. Thus hoping for a 3:30 marathon
finish. No go. Did it in 4:30 (although it was my second maraton in 3 weeks). Any way....felt
strong the first half, then faded. In planning next years raqcing season, the conclusion I've come
to based on this little experiment is that I need more endurance training, not nescesarrily more
speed (although I wold still do 1xweek track session).

Quoted message said:

Am I correct in that assumption. Or do I need more speed training?

--Once per week speed training is plenty for anything over 10K. You should not get rid of it
totally. Yasso 800s cannot be used to predict if you fade drastically at the end of a race though.
If you had gone out a little slower, might you have come a lot closer to the predicted time? Things
like Yassos really only demonstrate that you have the speed to comfortably run a marathon at a
certain speed. Whether you are properly trained to run that fast for 26.2 is a totally different
story. Hence the reason I ran 2:29 off a 15:37 5K PR and I know people under 15 for 5K that can't
marathon that fast. What I lack in speed I make up for in other areas. Include 1 day speedwork, 1
day tempo, and 1 day long run (at least) in your marathon schedule. The tempo day should be your
second longest day of the week. I've had success running that day about 13 miles (guage to your
specific fitness). I start by doing a few 10 minute fast sections during that time (up to marathon
pace or a little better) and adding on most weeks ...from 4X10 min to 2X15 min, then 2X 20 min, then
40 min, and finally 1 hour straight. This will greatly help your endurance over the marathon
distance. good luck Andy Hass

Quoted message said:

I think I know the answer to this, but wanted validation from other, more experienced runners. I
was able to run 10 X 800m repeats in an average time of 3:30. Thus hoping for a 3:30 marathon
finish. No go. Did it in 4:30 (although it was my second maraton in 3 weeks).

I've never seen an experienced marathoner suggest that Yasso 800s are a prediction tool; as I
understand it, that's getting it backwards. Rather, you work out your expected finishing time, then
use that to determine the speed of the 800s.

--
Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

(Jeff) said:

Didn't even come close for me.

I think I know the answer to this, but wanted validation from other, more experienced runners. I
was able to run 10 X 800m repeats in an average time of 3:30. Thus hoping for a 3:30 marathon
finish. No go. Did it in 4:30 (although it was my second maraton in 3 weeks). Any way....felt
strong the first half, then faded. In planning next years raqcing season, the conclusion I've come
to based on this little experiment is that I need more endurance training, not nescesarrily more
speed (although I wold still do 1xweek track session).

Am I correct in that assumption. Or do I need more speed training?

I've only done up to half marathons myself, but I would say you are right about needing more
endurance training. The other thing to pay attention to is the rest period between intervals. I'm
not sure what it should be, but if it gets too long, it cannot be that accurate of a predictor.

In my experience with racing and training, the standard equations for predicting a long race time
based on a short race time do not work unless I change the constants. If I take that approach and
cut everything in half, I'd be doing the 5 x 800's well under 3 minutes each, but there is no way I
could do under a 1:30 half marathon right now, maybe 1:35, but not 1:30.

I don't think you can base much on this experience. Since there was no mention of your time for the
1st marathon can I infer that the Yasso 800's were begun between the two, or were you doing previous
speedwork? Also one cannot expect your best only three weeks later.

For me, my Yasso's averaged 3:05 and I ran a 3:08 (last year). This year I strayed away from them
and my times have suffered. 800's are a solid workout for a marathon and I am a true believer now.
10x800 is a tough session and not a lot of fun, by the time the warmup and cooldown are added in
you'll have a 9 mile run in with 5 of that done at track speed. But if you are serious about
lowering your times they are worth it.

It goes without saying that this is only one component of a complete program. Temperature, altitude,
hills, pacing, are also factors to consider when calculating your expected time base on your
Yasso's. It's pretty close for most people but also for many others it will be off. But it's kinda
weird to a whole hour off, was there some other factor(s)?

[email hidden] (Jeff) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Didn't even come close for me.

I think I know the answer to this, but wanted validation from other, more experienced runners. I
was able to run 10 X 800m repeats in an average time of 3:30. Thus hoping for a 3:30 marathon
finish. No go. Did it in 4:30 (although it was my second maraton in 3 weeks). Any way....felt
strong the first half, then faded. In planning next years raqcing season, the conclusion I've come
to based on this little experiment is that I need more endurance training, not nescesarrily more
speed (although I wold still do 1xweek track session).

Am I correct in that assumption. Or do I need more speed training?

There is no rest period between yasso 800s - you jog onwards for the same amount of time taken by
each 800. J "Radioactive Man" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Jeff) said:

Didn't even come close for me.

I think I know the answer to this, but wanted validation from other, more experienced runners. I
was able to run 10 X 800m repeats in an average time of 3:30. Thus hoping for a 3:30 marathon
finish. No go. Did it in 4:30 (although it was my second maraton in 3 weeks). Any way....felt
strong the first half, then faded. In planning next years raqcing season, the conclusion I've
come to based on this little experiment is that I need more endurance training, not nescesarrily
more speed (although I wold still do 1xweek track session).

Am I correct in that assumption. Or do I need more speed training?

I've only done up to half marathons myself, but I would say you are right about needing more
endurance training. The other thing to pay attention to is the rest period between intervals. I'm
not sure what it should be, but if it gets too long, it cannot be that accurate of a predictor.

In my experience with racing and training, the standard equations for predicting a long race time
based on a short race time do not work unless I change the constants. If I take that approach and
cut everything in half, I'd be doing the 5 x 800's well under 3 minutes each, but there is no way
I could do under a 1:30 half marathon right now, maybe 1:35, but not 1:30.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jonathan Sydenham"

Quoted message said:

There is no rest period between yasso 800s - you jog onwards for the same amount of time taken by
each 800.

I thought you were supposed to jog an 800 in between.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jonathan Sydenham"

Quoted message said:

There is no rest period between yasso 800s - you jog onwards for the

same

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

amount of time taken by each 800.

I thought you were supposed to jog an 800 in between.

Nope, just jog the amount of time it took you to run the 800 sprint. I've heard doing less is even
better. Jogging an 800 won't allow your body to gain much in the long run as it is too much time for
your body to recover fully.

Tom

Quoted message said:

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson