Derailleurs for FSA compact double and Ultegra STI

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My bike is currently setup with all Ultegra-triple (circa 2003 STI,
crank, FD, 9s cassette, and RD).

I'm planning on moving the crank, FD, and RD to a different bike. In
their place I'm installing an FSA compact double (50/34), and a new FD
and RD.

What is my best bet for the FD and RD for this setup? Of course
compatibility with 9s Ultegra STI levers is a must, and I'm planning on
using an 11-23 cassette. I've seen suggestions for the DA-7700 FD, but
I also see an FSA FD that claims to be specifically made for compact
doubles with a 16T capacity. My primary concerns are reliability and
shifting compatibility. I'm not concerned about weight.

6500 FD and RD or 7700/7800 RD. DO NOT use a 6600/7800(10s) FD, shorter
arms, not enough travel with 9s STI. IRD 'compact' not necessary.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for any suggestions,
Sam

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My bike is currently setup with all Ultegra-triple (circa 2003 STI,
crank, FD, 9s cassette, and RD).

I'm planning on moving the crank, FD, and RD to a different bike. In
their place I'm installing an FSA compact double (50/34), and a new FD
and RD.

What is my best bet for the FD and RD for this setup? Of course
compatibility with 9s Ultegra STI levers is a must, and I'm planning on
using an 11-23 cassette. I've seen suggestions for the DA-7700 FD, but
I also see an FSA FD that claims to be specifically made for compact
doubles with a 16T capacity. My primary concerns are reliability and
shifting compatibility. I'm not concerned about weight.

6500 FD and RD or 7700/7800 RD. DO NOT use a 6600/7800(10s) FD, shorter
arms, not enough travel with 9s STI. IRD 'compact' not necessary.

Compact FD not "necessary," but may work better than a Shimano 6500
with Ultegra levers. Having used all kinds of different lever/FD
combos with my 50/34 compact, I like a FSA C-16. Comparably priced,
so why not go for the compact specific?

Also, your cassette choice will give you gear ratios substantially
similar to a 12-25 with 53/39. So in that case, why go compact up
front at all?

The general idea for compact - at least my approach - is to gain at
least one lower gear over a "typical" 53/39 set up, with the sacrifice
of more 2 gear jumps in the block. Meanwhile, the 11 tooth cog saves
your high gear. So 11-25 at least would be necessary to gain one
lower gear. The problem with the gear jumps is one reason why I
switched to 10 speed when I went compact up front. I now run a
"radical" 11-28, so I can climb virtually anything seated using the
little ring, but can stay in the big ring in a larger variety of
terrain than before.

Doug Taylor said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My bike is currently setup with all Ultegra-triple (circa 2003 STI,
crank, FD, 9s cassette, and RD).

I'm planning on moving the crank, FD, and RD to a different bike. In
their place I'm installing an FSA compact double (50/34), and a new FD
and RD.

What is my best bet for the FD and RD for this setup? Of course
compatibility with 9s Ultegra STI levers is a must, and I'm planning on
using an 11-23 cassette. I've seen suggestions for the DA-7700 FD, but
I also see an FSA FD that claims to be specifically made for compact
doubles with a 16T capacity. My primary concerns are reliability and
shifting compatibility. I'm not concerned about weight.

6500 FD and RD or 7700/7800 RD. DO NOT use a 6600/7800(10s) FD, shorter
arms, not enough travel with 9s STI. IRD 'compact' not necessary.

Thanks for the tip regarding the 10s FD. I was wary of the 10s versions
already, because I'd read the cage was narrower to accomodate the 10s
chain.

Quoted message said:

Compact FD not "necessary," but may work better than a Shimano 6500
with Ultegra levers. Having used all kinds of different lever/FD
combos with my 50/34 compact, I like a FSA C-16. Comparably priced,
so why not go for the compact specific?

My main concern was compatibility; if the C-16 shifts fine with STI,
that does seem like the better approach.

Quoted message said:

Also, your cassette choice will give you gear ratios substantially
similar to a 12-25 with 53/39. So in that case, why go compact up
front at all?

The primary reason I'm going compact double on this bike is because an
FSA Carbon Pro is the only spare crankset I have laying around. You're
right that a 39/25 will give me nearly the same ratio as a 34/23, but I
can always swap out the cassette for a 12/27 if I find myself needing
lower gears. In addition, since I'm giving up my triple on this bike
(the recipient bike will be my touring bike, for which the triple
seemed more appropriate), I like having the option of lower gears later
on if I want them.

Thanks,
Sam

Doug Taylor said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My bike is currently setup with all Ultegra-triple (circa 2003 STI,
crank, FD, 9s cassette, and RD).

I'm planning on moving the crank, FD, and RD to a different bike. In
their place I'm installing an FSA compact double (50/34), and a new FD
and RD.

What is my best bet for the FD and RD for this setup? Of course
compatibility with 9s Ultegra STI levers is a must, and I'm planning on
using an 11-23 cassette. I've seen suggestions for the DA-7700 FD, but
I also see an FSA FD that claims to be specifically made for compact
doubles with a 16T capacity. My primary concerns are reliability and
shifting compatibility. I'm not concerned about weight.

6500 FD and RD or 7700/7800 RD. DO NOT use a 6600/7800(10s) FD, shorter
arms, not enough travel with 9s STI. IRD 'compact' not necessary.

Compact FD not "necessary," but may work better than a Shimano 6500
with Ultegra levers. Having used all kinds of different lever/FD
combos with my 50/34 compact, I like a FSA C-16. Comparably priced,
so why not go for the compact specific?

Because in the dozen or so I have installed, not necessary. 6500 one
works great.

Quoted message said:

Also, your cassette choice will give you gear ratios substantially
similar to a 12-25 with 53/39. So in that case, why go compact up
front at all?

Actually 50/34 and 11-23 gives a higher high and a lower low gear than
53/39-12/25 combo. Close but actually wider.

Quoted message said:

The general idea for compact - at least my approach - is to gain at
least one lower gear over a "typical" 53/39 set up, with the sacrifice
of more 2 gear jumps in the block. Meanwhile, the 11 tooth cog saves
your high gear. So 11-25 at least would be necessary to gain one
lower gear. The problem with the gear jumps is one reason why I
switched to 10 speed when I went compact up front. I now run a
"radical" 11-28, so I can climb virtually anything seated using the
little ring, but can stay in the big ring in a larger variety of
terrain than before.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Compact FD not "necessary," but may work better than a Shimano 6500
with Ultegra levers. Having used all kinds of different lever/FD
combos with my 50/34 compact, I like a FSA C-16. Comparably priced,
so why not go for the compact specific?

Because in the dozen or so I have installed, not necessary. 6500 one
works great.

I don't own a bike shop, but my experience is quite different.
Shifting with Ultegra levers and Ultegra FD is noticeably slow and
sluggish going up from 34 to 50 now matter how cable tension or limits
are adjusted. But YMMV.

Oh, and probably no point in recommending installing a chain stopper
to avoid dropping the chain into the bottom bracket when shifting down
from 50 to 34: I'm sure you'll have a smug comeback to that as well.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, your cassette choice will give you gear ratios substantially
similar to a 12-25 with 53/39. So in that case, why go compact up
front at all?

Actually 50/34 and 11-23 gives a higher high and a lower low gear than
53/39-12/25 combo. Close but actually wider.

No duh. I can actually do math. I said "substantially" similar. The
differences, especially the low gears, would be hard to distinguish
unless your are some sort of princess and the pea pro, and I'm not.
YMMV again. The point of compact is LOWER gears, and combining an
11-23 with 50/34 in lieu of 12-25 with 53/39, is, I would be so bold
to assert, rather pointless.

Doug Taylor said:

Oh, and probably no point in recommending installing a chain stopper
to avoid dropping the chain into the bottom bracket when shifting down
from 50 to 34: I'm sure you'll have a smug comeback to that as well.

I ride with 51 or 50 x 38 or 39 quite a bit, and a chain stopper is
useful. Even on a well adjusted bike, frantic shifting on bumpy roads
can result in the chain falling.

Are things different with a 34?

--
JT
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John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Doug Taylor said:

Oh, and probably no point in recommending installing a chain stopper
to avoid dropping the chain into the bottom bracket when shifting down
from 50 to 34: I'm sure you'll have a smug comeback to that as well.

I ride with 51 or 50 x 38 or 39 quite a bit, and a chain stopper is
useful. Even on a well adjusted bike, frantic shifting on bumpy roads
can result in the chain falling.

Are things different with a 34?

The 16 tooth drop down from a 50 to a 34 can be forceful, and the
chain frequently falls off if you are not totally vigilant. Therefore,
most people I know with compacts have them. A simple $4 investment:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=652703284741&d=single&c=Components&sc=Chain-Guides&tc=Chain-Catcher&item_id=CD-04B

The point of my comment was anticipating that Peter would say
something like: "If you know how to shift properly, you don't need a
chain stopper."

I do.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Doug Taylor said:

Oh, and probably no point in recommending installing a chain stopper
to avoid dropping the chain into the bottom bracket when shifting down
from 50 to 34: I'm sure you'll have a smug comeback to that as well.

I ride with 51 or 50 x 38 or 39 quite a bit, and a chain stopper is
useful. Even on a well adjusted bike, frantic shifting on bumpy roads
can result in the chain falling.

Are things different with a 34?

Dear John,

My problem is at the other end of the chain.

Like you, I use a chain watcher on the front and occasionally bless it
when the chain decides to skip from the 53-tooth to the bottom
bracket.

But a few times every year, I sit up to start pedaling again after a
long, fast downhill, and find that the chain has bounced off the rear
11-tooth and is stuck between the cog and the frame. I stop, undo the
quick-release to free the chain, put the chain back, and ride on.

The chain never falls off the back when I'm shifting to the small cog.
It may be coincidence, but it usually happens when there's a gusty
wind blowing from the rear quarter, so the speed is reaching 45 mph
and things are a bit bouncy.

I suspect that the chain run is just bouncing and finally bounces just
right to come off the rear cog.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Doug Taylor said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Doug Taylor said:

Oh, and probably no point in recommending installing a chain stopper
to avoid dropping the chain into the bottom bracket when shifting down
from 50 to 34: I'm sure you'll have a smug comeback to that as well.

I ride with 51 or 50 x 38 or 39 quite a bit, and a chain stopper is
useful. Even on a well adjusted bike, frantic shifting on bumpy roads
can result in the chain falling.

Are things different with a 34?

The 16 tooth drop down from a 50 to a 34 can be forceful, and the
chain frequently falls off if you are not totally vigilant. Therefore,
most people I know with compacts have them. A simple $4 investment:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=652703284741&d=single&c=Components&sc=Chain-Guides&tc=Chain-Catcher&item_id=CD-04B

The point of my comment was anticipating that Peter would say
something like: "If you know how to shift properly, you don't need a
chain stopper."

I do.

Wise.

--
JT
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Doug Taylor said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Compact FD not "necessary," but may work better than a Shimano 6500
with Ultegra levers. Having used all kinds of different lever/FD
combos with my 50/34 compact, I like a FSA C-16. Comparably priced,
so why not go for the compact specific?

Because in the dozen or so I have installed, not necessary. 6500 one
works great.

I don't own a bike shop, but my experience is quite different.
Shifting with Ultegra levers and Ultegra FD is noticeably slow and
sluggish going up from 34 to 50 now matter how cable tension or limits
are adjusted. But YMMV.

Oh, and probably no point in recommending installing a chain stopper
to avoid dropping the chain into the bottom bracket when shifting down
from 50 to 34: I'm sure you'll have a smug comeback to that as well.

What's yer problem? I'm not looking for an argument, just my
experience. OBTW-the 'standard' FD for shimano compact, which IS 50/34,
is their standard for double FD.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, your cassette choice will give you gear ratios substantially
similar to a 12-25 with 53/39. So in that case, why go compact up
front at all?

Actually 50/34 and 11-23 gives a higher high and a lower low gear than
53/39-12/25 combo. Close but actually wider.

No duh. I can actually do math. I said "substantially" similar. The
differences, especially the low gears, would be hard to distinguish
unless your are some sort of princess and the pea pro, and I'm not.
YMMV again. The point of compact is LOWER gears, and combining an
11-23 with 50/34 in lieu of 12-25 with 53/39, is, I would be so bold
to assert, rather pointless.

Take your pack off......

Doug Taylor said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Doug Taylor said:

Oh, and probably no point in recommending installing a chain stopper
to avoid dropping the chain into the bottom bracket when shifting down
from 50 to 34: I'm sure you'll have a smug comeback to that as well.

I ride with 51 or 50 x 38 or 39 quite a bit, and a chain stopper is
useful. Even on a well adjusted bike, frantic shifting on bumpy roads
can result in the chain falling.

Are things different with a 34?

The 16 tooth drop down from a 50 to a 34 can be forceful, and the
chain frequently falls off if you are not totally vigilant. Therefore,
most people I know with compacts have them. A simple $4 investment:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=652703284741&d=single&c=Components&sc=Chain-Guides&tc=Chain-Catcher&item_id=CD-04B

The point of my comment was anticipating that Peter would say
something like: "If you know how to shift properly, you don't need a
chain stopper."

I do.

your 'point' was pointless...

Doug Taylor said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Doug Taylor said:

Oh, and probably no point in recommending installing a chain stopper
to avoid dropping the chain into the bottom bracket when shifting down
from 50 to 34: I'm sure you'll have a smug comeback to that as well.

I ride with 51 or 50 x 38 or 39 quite a bit, and a chain stopper is
useful. Even on a well adjusted bike, frantic shifting on bumpy roads
can result in the chain falling.

Are things different with a 34?

The 16 tooth drop down from a 50 to a 34 can be forceful, and the
chain frequently falls off if you are not totally vigilant. Therefore,
most people I know with compacts have them. A simple $4 investment:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=652703284741&d=single&c=Components&sc=Chain-Guides&tc=Chain-Catcher&item_id=CD-04B

The point of my comment was anticipating that Peter would say
something like: "If you know how to shift properly, you don't need a
chain stopper."

I do.

your 'point' was pointless...I install many, many chainwatchers, think
they are great tool. Gee,,can ya shift a STI left lever, all ya friggin
do is push the thing...

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

What's yer problem? I'm not looking for an argument, just my
experience. OBTW-the 'standard' FD for shimano compact, which IS 50/34,
is their standard for double FD.

Yes, but in all fairness, the pin on their 50t compact ring is
different. It is a rectangle made of very hard metal and has a sharp,
corner edge. My guess is that the design of the shift assist is
better than average.

I can't see why someone would not use a chain watcher. I happen to
like the Jump Stop.

Paul Kopit said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

What's yer problem? I'm not looking for an argument, just my
experience. OBTW-the 'standard' FD for shimano compact, which IS 50/34,
is their standard for double FD.

Yes, but in all fairness, the pin on their 50t compact ring is
different. It is a rectangle made of very hard metal and has a sharp,
corner edge. My guess is that the design of the shift assist is
better than average.

I can't see why someone would not use a chain watcher. I happen to
like the Jump Stop.

BUT, I'm talking about many compact Ritchey and FSA cranks way before
IRD or anybody else made a compact FD...WAY before shimano made the
R700.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Doug Taylor wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 21:06:11 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The 16 tooth drop down from a 50 to a 34 can be forceful, and the chain
frequently falls off if you are not totally vigilant. Therefore, most
people I know with compacts have them. A simple $4 investment:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=652703284741&d=single&c=Components&sc=Chain-Guides&tc=Chain-Catcher&item_id=CD-04B

The point of my comment was anticipating that Peter would say something
like: "If you know how to shift properly, you don't need a chain
stopper."

I do.

your 'point' was pointless...I install many, many chainwatchers, think
they are great tool. Gee,,can ya shift a STI left lever, all ya friggin
do is push the thing...

Chainwatchers are great, but unfortunately they don't fit my fat tubed
Klein, or most carbon bikes. I don't drop chains often but it's a pain
when I do.

A friend just cut the mounting band off and glued his on.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Doug Taylor wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 21:06:11 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The 16 tooth drop down from a 50 to a 34 can be forceful, and the chain
frequently falls off if you are not totally vigilant. Therefore, most
people I know with compacts have them. A simple $4 investment:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=652703284741&d=single&c=Components&sc=Chain-Guides&tc=Chain-Catcher&item_id=CD-04B

The point of my comment was anticipating that Peter would say something
like: "If you know how to shift properly, you don't need a chain
stopper."

I do.

your 'point' was pointless...I install many, many chainwatchers, think
they are great tool. Gee,,can ya shift a STI left lever, all ya friggin
do is push the thing...

Chainwatchers are great, but unfortunately they don't fit my fat tubed
Klein, or most carbon bikes. I don't drop chains often but it's a pain
when I do.

A friend just cut the mounting band off and glued his on.

Matt O.

he should try an IRD FD!!!! what's wrong with him???!!!

;-lo <-------

Matt O'Toole said:

Chainwatchers are great, but unfortunately they don't fit my fat tubed
Klein, or most carbon bikes. I don't drop chains often but it's a pain
when I do.

A friend just cut the mounting band off and glued his on.

I would love to see a photo of that or know more details, such as the
type of watcher (Third Eye? but I don't see how glue would hold), the
bike he glued it too and any details of installation.

--
JT
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Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

your 'point' was pointless...

As was your quibbling about whether or not 11-23 with 50/34 is
"substantially" similar to 12-25 with 53/39.

Zero sum.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Matt O'Toole said:

Chainwatchers are great, but unfortunately they don't fit my fat tubed
Klein, or most carbon bikes. I don't drop chains often but it's a pain
when I do.

A friend just cut the mounting band off and glued his on.

I would love to see a photo of that or know more details, such as the
type of watcher (Third Eye? but I don't see how glue would hold), the
bike he glued it too and any details of installation.

I don't have a photo, but he just cut the band so it didn't have to go
around the tube. There's only about a third of the original unit left. I
don't know what kind of glue he used, but polyurethane (like 3M 5200)
would probably work -- just hope you never have to take it off!

Matt O.