Zealots

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

What are the chances of people turning over a new leaf and the anti
cyclist loons and anti car cyclist loons calming down are? A bit of sanity
on both sides would help debate IMO.

Not until hell freezes over or Paul Smith becomes an advocate for
speed/safety cameras......

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

What are the chances of people turning over a new leaf and the anti
cyclist loons and anti car cyclist loons calming down are? A bit of
sanity on both sides would help debate IMO.

Not until hell freezes over or Paul Smith becomes an advocate for
speed/safety cameras......

I cycle, drive and walk, and I don't like speed cameras. I must be some sort
of walking paradox 😉.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the chances of people turning over a new leaf and the anti
cyclist loons and anti car cyclist loons calming down are? A bit of
sanity on both sides would help debate IMO.

Not until hell freezes over or Paul Smith becomes an advocate for
speed/safety cameras......

I cycle, drive and walk, and I don't like speed cameras. I must be some
sort of walking paradox 😉.

Why don't you like speed cameras?

Could it be that you when you drive a car you exceed the speed limits?

I walk, cycle and occasionally drive a car ( ratio of 6 cycling to 2
driving).

I have found that as I cycle more, I drive less and become a better ( well
certainly a "more aware"😉 driver. I see no problem in obeying speed
limits -- in fact with motorway driving I have a much safer and distinctly
safer journey by travelling mainly tucked in on the inside lane with the
trucks at about 60 mph than . I also don't RLJ in/on bike or car and I find
that travelling, by car, and obeying the law doesn't involve me in more
delays that rushing dangerously along without care for my own and others
safety.

When cycling on road, which I do daily, I am alert with all senses
especially my ears which warn me of traffic behind and around me. I
continually look at my route and approaching hazards. In fact long years of
practicing commentary driving ( talking out loud about your progress along
your route in a car and specifically being "aware"😉 I think makes me
possibly more alert to driving conditions than most motorists. I apply the
same rules silently when I am cycling but even more so!

I wish more road users did the same ( and I include many people on bikes!)

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.

"Pinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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> What are the chances of people turning over a new leaf and the anti
> cyclist loons and anti car cyclist loons calming down are? A bit of
> sanity on both sides would help debate IMO.

Not until hell freezes over or Paul Smith becomes an advocate for
speed/safety cameras......

I cycle, drive and walk, and I don't like speed cameras. I must be some
sort of walking paradox 😉.

Why don't you like speed cameras?

Could it be that you when you drive a car you exceed the speed limits?

Could be, yes. I enjoy going fast in a car and I enjoy going fast on a bike.
I'm currently in the middle of fettling my car and have no intention to
mangle it after all the time I've put into it, so I'm going relatively
slowly in my van.

Quoted message said:

I walk, cycle and occasionally drive a car ( ratio of 6 cycling to 2
driving).

I have found that as I cycle more, I drive less and become a better ( well
certainly a "more aware"😉 driver. I see no problem in obeying speed
limits -- in fact with motorway driving I have a much safer and distinctly
safer journey by travelling mainly tucked in on the inside lane with the
trucks at about 60 mph than . I also don't RLJ in/on bike or car and I
find that travelling, by car, and obeying the law doesn't involve me in
more delays that rushing dangerously along without care for my own and
others safety.

I don't jump red lights either, or drive like a git in general, or speed in
built up areas. Even when I'm on my bike, I'd much rather someone passes me
on a B road at 60 (or 80) with a good gap, than nearly hits me at 35. IMO
speed cameras have been used much like CCTV cameras in town centres - rather
than augmenting policing, they've replaced it. I very rarely see traffic
police but seem to be seeing more and more bad driving - things like driving
on a mobile, not paying attention and bumbling along an NSL road at 35mph,
which are obviously things cameras won't catch.

Something that proved to me the other day just how unaware drivers are of
what they're doing are some signs that have been installed in Nottingham (I
think on Mansfield Road). They're like smaller versions of the light up
signs that flash when you break the speed limit, but they flash whenever
there's traffic, with "30" in a red roundel. The end result of the signs is
that traffic ends up flowing at 20-25mph, which seems to suggest that
everyone is either not checking their instruments, or seriously believes
that they're overreading by a good 20% (speedos are generally calibrated to
underread by up to 10%). The road is wide enough to accomodate 4 lanes of
traffic and has very wide pavements at either side, so it isn't even as if
people are needed to travel that slowly.

Quoted message said:

When cycling on road, which I do daily, I am alert with all senses
especially my ears which warn me of traffic behind and around me. I
continually look at my route and approaching hazards. In fact long years
of practicing commentary driving ( talking out loud about your progress
along your route in a car and specifically being "aware"😉 I think makes me
possibly more alert to driving conditions than most motorists. I apply the
same rules silently when I am cycling but even more so!

I wish more road users did the same ( and I include many people on bikes!)

I'd be happy if people could cope with looking where they're going,
concentrating on driving and signalling appropriately 🙂. I think Roadcraft
style stuff is a bit above a lot of people...

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I cycle, drive and walk, and I don't like speed cameras. I must be some
sort of walking paradox 😉.

I cycle, drive and walk and I have no problems at all with speed cameras.
Indeed, I'd have no problem if there were lots more of them or if they are
'hidden' ones.

wafflycat said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I cycle, drive and walk, and I don't like speed cameras. I must be some
sort of walking paradox 😉.

I cycle, drive and walk and I have no problems at all with speed cameras.
Indeed, I'd have no problem if there were lots more of them or if they are
'hidden' ones.

I wish all speed cameras were hidden and unsigned. This would prevent
people either hammering up to them and slamming on their anchors, so as
to avoid being caught for speeding, or bimbling through the zone at
crawling pace.

David @ work.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in
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Quoted message said:

I cycle, drive and walk, and I don't like speed cameras. I must be
some sort of walking paradox 😉.

You are not alone.

Sirius631 wrote on 04/01/2007 08:05 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I wish all speed cameras were hidden and unsigned. This would prevent
people either hammering up to them and slamming on their anchors, so as
to avoid being caught for speeding, or bimbling through the zone at
crawling pace.

I thought they many had GPS units to tell them when to slow down as they
are incapable of seeing a bright orange reflective box by the side of
the road.

I have no problem with speed cameras and I especially like the new
average speed ones that require you to stay within the limit for the
whole distance.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

wafflycat said:

I cycle, drive and walk and I have no problems at all with speed cameras.
Indeed, I'd have no problem if there were lots more of them or if they are
'hidden' ones.

Me too. Exceeding speed limit = breaking the law.

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I cycle, drive and walk, and I don't like speed cameras. I must be some
sort of walking paradox 😉.

I cycle, drive and walk and I have no problems at all with speed cameras.
Indeed, I'd have no problem if there were lots more of them or if they are
'hidden' ones.

Regardless or not of whether you agree with the idea of speed cameras and
strict enforcement of speed limits, do you not agree that in many areas the
presensce of speed cameras has become the only form of traffic policing,
which isn't a great idea?

"squeaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

wafflycat said:

I cycle, drive and walk and I have no problems at all with speed cameras.
Indeed, I'd have no problem if there were lots more of them or if they
are
'hidden' ones.

Me too. Exceeding speed limit = breaking the law.

Indeed. I bet a hell of a lot of people on here have ridden or ride bikes
that aren't strictly road legal on the road. That = breaking the law.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"squeaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

wafflycat said:

I cycle, drive and walk and I have no problems at all with speed
cameras.
Indeed, I'd have no problem if there were lots more of them or if they
are
'hidden' ones.

Me too. Exceeding speed limit = breaking the law.

Indeed. I bet a hell of a lot of people on here have ridden or ride bikes
that aren't strictly road legal on the road. That = breaking the law.

Indeed people break laws all the time, intentionally or unintentionally. One
factor to consider, IMO, in whether a law is important enough to merit a lot
of enforcement, is the possibility of harm to others if the law is broken.
Speed limits are there for a reason: safety, and in particular safety to
third parties. The risk of serious harm and death to third parties is a very
real one when those of us who drive cars. This is not to say that excessive
speed is the only danger on the roads, but it is a very real one and
deserves to be monitored closely. As police resources are finite, I have no
problem whatsoever when monitoring of speed is done by camera as this means
plod can be doing something else that is also important but more complex to
so. Adhering to speed limits is an important, yet basic, skill we all had to
master in order to pass our driving tests. Something that appals me is the
number of drivers who seem to think that the speed limit is there to be
ignored and exceeded whenever possible. If I ever get done for speeding,
then there's no-one to blame but me, as it means that I've not been paying
enough attention to my driving methods and I'd hope I'd have the grace to
accept the penalty and not whinge about it like so many seem to do in the
absurd bleating about speed cameras being a stealth tax on the poor,
put-upon British motorist.

On 01/03/2007 22:35:08 'Doki said:

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are the chances of people turning over a new leaf and the anti
cyclist loons and anti car cyclist loons calming down are? A bit of
sanity on both sides would help debate IMO.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not until hell freezes over or Paul Smith becomes an advocate for
speed/safety cameras......

Quoted message said:

I cycle, drive and walk, and I don't like speed cameras. I must be some
sort of walking paradox 😉.

Actually you are part of the majority, this place occupies many of the
noisy but impetent minority.

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

Buck said:

On 01/03/2007 22:35:08 "Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I cycle, drive and walk, and I don't like speed cameras. I must be some
sort of walking paradox 😉.

Not really, no shortage of people like that, because many/most people in
the UK seem to work happily with the paradox that speeding isn't a
problem and it's okay to do it (unless you get caught, which is a
nuisance but nothing more). I used to be like that, a change in driving
attitudes and speed cameras no longer bother me, because since I keep
inside limits they're irrelevant to me.

Quoted message said:

Actually you are part of the majority, this place occupies many of the
noisy but impetent minority.

I guess any group of "impetent" people will be a minority, since
"impetent" is not a word. If you want to make pithy criticisms of the
locals to show how superior you are then turning on your spell checker
would probably help...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Buck wrote on 04/01/2007 09:56 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Actually you are part of the majority, this place occupies many of the
noisy but impetent minority.

So "impetent" in fact that speed cameras are increasing in numbers not
decreasing as your "majority" would wish.

As for a "majority" in surveys IIRC something like 70% of people think
they are a good idea while 70% of motorists admit to speeding regularly

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Tony Raven said:

As for a "majority" in surveys IIRC something like 70% of people think
they are a good idea

It would be interesting to know the phrasing of the question.

Quoted message said:

while 70% of motorists admit to speeding regularly

Yet in 2005 only 5% of /all/ injury collisions recorded under the new
police system actually had speeding as a factor - amazing.

--
Matt B

Tony Raven said:

Buck wrote on 04/01/2007 09:56 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Actually you are part of the majority, this place occupies many of the
noisy but impetent minority.

So "impetent" in fact that speed cameras are increasing in numbers not
decreasing as your "majority" would wish.

As for a "majority" in surveys IIRC something like 70% of people think
they are a good idea while 70% of motorists admit to speeding regularly

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Since we know speed is a factor in a third of all RTA's the reason for
speed camera's popularity becomes clear. It was interesting when Paul
Smith briefly infested the Cycling Plus forum and was unable to tell us
which roads shared with cyclists he would speed on, what his
qualifications were, who the "experts" are that he claims have verified
his work, why Joksch demanded that his name be removed from the
crapspeed website and a host of other questions. The anti-camera lobby
are strictly an irrelevance, 33% of the posts on SafeSpeed are by 10
people, 48% by 20. Wonder how this forum compares?

spindrift said:

Tony Raven said:

Buck wrote on 04/01/2007 09:56 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Actually you are part of the majority, this place occupies many of the
noisy but impetent minority.

So "impetent" in fact that speed cameras are increasing in numbers not
decreasing as your "majority" would wish.

As for a "majority" in surveys IIRC something like 70% of people think
they are a good idea while 70% of motorists admit to speeding regularly

Since we know speed is a factor in a third of all RTA's

The latest data, that for 2005, gives "exceeding the speed limit" or
"going too fast for conditions" as being reported as a contributory
factor in 15% of all injury collisions. What obsolete data are you
referencing?

Quoted message said:

the reason for
speed camera's popularity becomes clear.

Yes, it is clear that those who support them do not understand the
difference between "speeding" which was a factor in only 5% of all
injury accidents - and which speed cameras /can/ target, and "going too
fast for conditions" which contributed to far more collisions, but which
speed cameras /cannot/ target.

--
Matt B

spindrift wrote on 04/01/2007 11:53 +0100:

Quoted message said:

The study's authors, Dr Damian Poulter and Professor Frank McKenna
from the University of Reading's Psychology department, replicated
the findings in a second survey, which also found that 85% of
respondents felt travelling immediately above the speed limit on
residential roads was unacceptable behaviour.

The problem is we have schizophrenic nimbyism so while 85% felt it
unacceptable, according to the RAC:

"More than half of British drivers break speed limits every day, a
survey by motoring organisation the RAC suggests.

Of the 1,074 questioned, 55% admitted regularly speeding, compared with
45% in last year's RAC Report on Motoring.

The RAC says 30mph limits are the most likely to be ignored, and drivers
continue speeding because they do not believe they will be caught."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4241215.stm

Which implies most people think it unacceptable for "you to speed on my
street" but perfectly acceptable for "me to speed on your street"

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy