Help with indexing conversion?

Road Man said:

I just bought a set of 10-speed Veloce Ergo levers. I can get either
a set of Campy wheels or Shimano wheels using 9 speed, but haven't
chosen which way is best. If I get Shimano, I'll probably want to use
the Sheldon Brown custom 9-speed Century cluster. If I get Campy,
I'll probably want a 13-29 cluster. I might be able to use a
ShiftMate to match up these parts, or I can convert the right Ergo to
9-speed and hunt for a Campy 9-speed cluster.

If you have 10-speed Campy levers, you should use (surprise) a Campy
10-speed cassette. Making 9-speed work will require replacing a $35 part
in the right shifter. Using Shimano or Campy 9-speed once you do that will
probably be OK, but why bother? 9-speed cassettes are currently widely
available, but you've had this bike 25 years. In 5 years, 9-speed stuff
will be hard to find. Might as well stick with 10.

Your derailleurs will be OK as they are.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

Road Man said:

Hi, I'm planning to convert my friction-shift bike to indexing. I
built up this 1980 Woodrup from a bare frame, using a Campy Racing T
52/42/36 chainset, and Racing-T front and rear derailleurs friction
shifted with downtube levers. As far as I can tell the Racing T set
is made for 9-speed, and the rear mech has a capacity of either 29 or
30 teeth. I don't know how much chain it can wrap. With a Sachs
7-speed freewheel 13-26 it shifts great. I may replace the 36
sprocket with a 30, but that's not the current project.

Needless to say, the Woodrup frame will get its chainstays cold-set to
make room for a 130 OLD hub. The frame has acres of tire clearance,
I'm all set with suitable calipers.

I just bought a set of 10-speed Veloce Ergo levers. I can get either
a set of Campy wheels or Shimano wheels using 9 speed, but haven't
chosen which way is best. If I get Shimano, I'll probably want to use
the Sheldon Brown custom 9-speed Century cluster. If I get Campy,
I'll probably want a 13-29 cluster. I might be able to use a
ShiftMate to match up these parts, or I can convert the right Ergo to
9-speed and hunt for a Campy 9-speed cluster.

I'm looking for advice! What's the best thing to do here? Campy
wheel with Ergo conversion or Shimano wheel with ShiftMate?

Get the shifters, the Campag wheel, a Campag 10s cogset and chain,
install all and go ride. No need for goofy shiftmates, right lever
conversions or anything else. That RD, unless it's worn out, will work
fine with a 10s ERGO.

Quoted message said:

Ken

Road Man said:

I just bought a set of 10-speed Veloce Ergo levers. I can get either
a set of Campy wheels or Shimano wheels using 9 speed, but haven't
chosen which way is best. If I get Shimano, I'll probably want to use
the Sheldon Brown custom 9-speed Century cluster. If I get Campy,
I'll probably want a 13-29 cluster. I might be able to use a
ShiftMate to match up these parts, or I can convert the right Ergo to
9-speed and hunt for a Campy 9-speed cluster.

If you get Campy 10 shifters, you can shift Campy 10, Shimano 10 and
Shimano 9. I don't use any shift adapters to do those things. I've
had good luck with 11,12/28 x 10s IRD Campy splined cassettes and I'm
also fond of a Shimano splined SRAM 11/26 (it's now my favorite with
50/34).

Shimano splined hubs and cassettes are less costly and you'll find
more choices.

Your best $ alternative is Campy 10 shifters x Shimano 9sp cassette
and chain.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Road Man said:

Hi, I'm planning to convert my friction-shift bike to indexing. I
built up this 1980 Woodrup from a bare frame, using a Campy Racing T
52/42/36 chainset, and Racing-T front and rear derailleurs friction

et cetera

Get the shifters, the Campag wheel, a Campag 10s cogset and chain,
install all and go ride. No need for goofy shiftmates, right lever
conversions or anything else. That RD, unless it's worn out, will work
fine with a 10s ERGO.

Quoted message said:

Ken

Thanks, Peter. I have the Ergos, and the Racing T chainset and
derailleur set already. It's only 2 years old,but i don't know its
specs

Will it handle the Campy 13/29 cogsets with the 52/36 chainset spread?

How strong are the axles on Campy 130mm hubs? is there any issue with
axle bending? Is there an age cutoff for adequate strength? Ya know,
the old story about Shimano having bearings near the dropouts and hence
having better axle support?

Ken

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Road Man said:

Hi, I'm planning to convert my friction-shift bike to indexing. I
built up this 1980 Woodrup from a bare frame, using a Campy Racing T
52/42/36 chainset, and Racing-T front and rear derailleurs friction

et cetera

Get the shifters, the Campag wheel, a Campag 10s cogset and chain,
install all and go ride. No need for goofy shiftmates, right lever
conversions or anything else. That RD, unless it's worn out, will work
fine with a 10s ERGO.

Quoted message said:

Ken

Thanks, Peter. I have the Ergos, and the Racing T chainset and
derailleur set already. It's only 2 years old,but i don't know its
specs

Will it handle the Campy 13/29 cogsets with the 52/36 chainset spread?

How strong are the axles on Campy 130mm hubs? is there any issue with
axle bending? Is there an age cutoff for adequate strength? Ya know,
the old story about Shimano having bearings near the dropouts and hence
having better axle support?

Campag rear hubs are the same basic design as the Shimano ones since at
least 2000 in that the bearings are near the dropouts.

I think I read on Sheldon's site that Shimano had patented that design,
so presumably the patent must have run out a while ago, I don't know
when. I haven't been following this thread attentively and can't
remember if you're talking about a "vintage" hub.

There are actually four sets of bearings in a Campag rear hub, two
inside the freehub body and two at the other end.

Ben C said:

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Road Man wrote:
> Hi, I'm planning to convert my friction-shift bike to indexing. I
> built up this 1980 Woodrup from a bare frame, using a Campy Racing T
> 52/42/36 chainset, and Racing-T front and rear derailleurs friction
et cetera

Get the shifters, the Campag wheel, a Campag 10s cogset and chain,
install all and go ride. No need for goofy shiftmates, right lever
conversions or anything else. That RD, unless it's worn out, will work
fine with a 10s ERGO.
>
> Ken

Thanks, Peter. I have the Ergos, and the Racing T chainset and
derailleur set already. It's only 2 years old,but i don't know its
specs

Will it handle the Campy 13/29 cogsets with the 52/36 chainset spread?

How strong are the axles on Campy 130mm hubs? is there any issue with
axle bending? Is there an age cutoff for adequate strength? Ya know,
the old story about Shimano having bearings near the dropouts and hence
having better axle support?

Campag rear hubs are the same basic design as the Shimano ones since at
least 2000 in that the bearings are near the dropouts.

Not exactly...shimano hubs, except 7800, all have the drive side
bearing at the end of the freehub body. All Campag and 7800 do not and
have a unsupported freehub. Big aluminum axles have helped bending but
shimano is the ONLY hub with supported freehubs, patent driven.

Quoted message said:

I think I read on Sheldon's site that Shimano had patented that design,
so presumably the patent must have run out a while ago, I don't know
when. I haven't been following this thread attentively and can't
remember if you're talking about a "vintage" hub.

There are actually four sets of bearings in a Campag rear hub, two
inside the freehub body and two at the other end.

All true but the freehub is unsupported, shimano freehubs are bolted
onto the freehub, all others are not.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Ben C said:

On 2006-12-13, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How strong are the axles on Campy 130mm hubs? is there any issue with
axle bending? Is there an age cutoff for adequate strength? Ya know,
the old story about Shimano having bearings near the dropouts and hence
having better axle support?

Campag rear hubs are the same basic design as the Shimano ones since at
least 2000 in that the bearings are near the dropouts.

Not exactly...shimano hubs, except 7800, all have the drive side
bearing at the end of the freehub body. All Campag and 7800 do not and
have a unsupported freehub. Big aluminum axles have helped bending but
shimano is the ONLY hub with supported freehubs, patent driven.

I'm obviously missing something. I know what the Campag hubs are like
inside because I took my old one apart. From what I remember it all just
slides onto the axle, first the hub body, with two sets of bearings in
it, then you have the pawls which you tuck in and then the freehub slots
on next, with another two sets of bearings inside it.

Sort of like this, all threaded onto the axle represented by the --
line:

--N- Huuuuuuuuub p freehub -N--
x x x x bearings marked with x

p is the pawls, N are the nuts at either end of the axle holding it all
together.

This design looks like it should support the axle effectively.

The old freewheel designs were something like this as I understand it:

-- Huuuuuuuuuub - freewheel
x x

so no bearings underneath the freewheel.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think I read on Sheldon's site that Shimano had patented that design,
so presumably the patent must have run out a while ago, I don't know
when. I haven't been following this thread attentively and can't
remember if you're talking about a "vintage" hub.

There are actually four sets of bearings in a Campag rear hub, two
inside the freehub body and two at the other end.

All true but the freehub is unsupported, shimano freehubs are bolted
onto the freehub, all others are not.

I don't understand. How do Shimano hubs work?

Simple, shimano freehub bodies are bolted onto the hub body...not
freestanding like all others. The support bearings folr shimano axles
are at the outside end of the freehub, the support bearings for all
other axles are in the hub body...You can take a freehub/axle assembly
out of this or anyother hub in one piece, w/o messing with the right
side at all..cannot with shimano. take a shimano hub apart and it'll be
obvious.

Ben C said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Ben C said:

On 2006-12-13, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> How strong are the axles on Campy 130mm hubs? is there any issue with
> axle bending? Is there an age cutoff for adequate strength? Ya know,
> the old story about Shimano having bearings near the dropouts and hence
> having better axle support?

Campag rear hubs are the same basic design as the Shimano ones since at
least 2000 in that the bearings are near the dropouts.

Not exactly...shimano hubs, except 7800, all have the drive side
bearing at the end of the freehub body. All Campag and 7800 do not and
have a unsupported freehub. Big aluminum axles have helped bending but
shimano is the ONLY hub with supported freehubs, patent driven.

I'm obviously missing something. I know what the Campag hubs are like
inside because I took my old one apart. From what I remember it all just
slides onto the axle, first the hub body, with two sets of bearings in
it, then you have the pawls which you tuck in and then the freehub slots
on next, with another two sets of bearings inside it.

Sort of like this, all threaded onto the axle represented by the --
line:

--N- Huuuuuuuuub p freehub -N--
x x x x bearings marked with x

p is the pawls, N are the nuts at either end of the axle holding it all
together.

This design looks like it should support the axle effectively.

The old freewheel designs were something like this as I understand it:

-- Huuuuuuuuuub - freewheel
x x

so no bearings underneath the freewheel.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think I read on Sheldon's site that Shimano had patented that design,
so presumably the patent must have run out a while ago, I don't know
when. I haven't been following this thread attentively and can't
remember if you're talking about a "vintage" hub.

There are actually four sets of bearings in a Campag rear hub, two
inside the freehub body and two at the other end.

All true but the freehub is unsupported, shimano freehubs are bolted
onto the freehub, all others are not.

I don't understand. How do Shimano hubs work?

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Simple, shimano freehub bodies are bolted onto the hub body...not
freestanding like all others.

I think I understand this part. Basically the freehub and hub body is
one piece, or at least, connected with bolts. On the Campag ones, once
you've undone the bolts at the end and taken the axle out, the freehub
just pulls away from the hub body.

This presumably means extra "load paths" through the Shimano hub/freehub
itself, which have to go through the axle on Campag hubs.

Quoted message said:

The support bearings for shimano axles are at the outside end of the
freehub, the support bearings for all other axles are in the hub
body...You can take a freehub/axle assembly out of this or anyother
hub in one piece, w/o messing with the right side at all..cannot with
shimano.

But there are bearings in the freehub (as well as in the hub body) on a
Campag, maybe not right at the end, but certainly close to the end. In
fact perhaps it's the fact that the freehub is not bolted to the hub
body that means you need the four sets of bearings-- the hub body and
freehub both have to be supported independently since they aren't
attached to each other.