compact crank with short cage derailleur

Arthur Ogus said:

Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
I can't find the info on the Campy website.

Thanks.

If you are buying a new dearilleur, take the medium cage. If you have
the short cage already try it first. It's probably OK.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Arthur Ogus said:

Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
I can't find the info on the Campy website.

It is possible and perfectly functional to do so. I use that crank
with a short cage on one of my bikes. I even used that crank/der combo
with a 13-29 cassette once last year (but avoid the big - big, the der
will explode!).

The medium cage does offer complete compatibility with all available
Campy cassettes, but if you never plan to throw a 13-29 on it, the 5
gms you save might be important to you.

D'ohBoy

Arthur Ogus said:

Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
I can't find the info on the Campy website.

Thanks.

Bike shop needs to do some research...with a compact, less of a need
for a medium cage.

'Company line'-

Standard or compact crank and all cogsets offered EXCEPT 13-29-short
cage. 13-29, and Standard and CT crank-medium cage. Triple crank and
all cogsets BUT 13-29-medium cage, triple and 13-29-long cage.

In actual practice, a short cage, standard crank works fine with a
13-29...a medium cage and any combo is fine as well, as is the long
cage. JUST need to size the chain properly.

D'ohBoy said:

Arthur Ogus said:

Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
I can't find the info on the Campy website.

It is possible and perfectly functional to do so. I use that crank
with a short cage on one of my bikes. I even used that crank/der combo
with a 13-29 cassette once last year (but avoid the big - big, the der
will explode!).

We have a demo bike with a 13-29 and short cage with a standard crank
and big-big is fine and dandy plus small-small doesn't have chain droop
or pulley-cog interference in biggest cog.

Quoted message said:

The medium cage does offer complete compatibility with all available
Campy cassettes, but if you never plan to throw a 13-29 on it, the 5
gms you save might be important to you.

D'ohBoy

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

'Company line'-

Standard or compact crank and all cogsets offered EXCEPT 13-29-short
cage. 13-29, and Standard and CT crank-medium cage. Triple crank and
all cogsets BUT 13-29-medium cage, triple and 13-29-long cage.

In actual practice, a short cage, standard crank works fine with a
13-29...a medium cage and any combo is fine as well, as is the long
cage. JUST need to size the chain properly.

Is it possible that there are bikes with certain chainstay lengths
might run into minor chain droop issues with a 29 tooth cog and a
short cage RD? Not that this would be a real problem, of course.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Arthur Ogus said:

Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
I can't find the info on the Campy website.

Short v. long? Short has less pulley cage sticking out to get bent by
misadventure. So, IMHO, if a short cage works 100% (no problems when
you forget which gear you're in and which way you wanted to shift) then
the short is better. --D-y

Arthur Ogus said:

Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
I can't find the info on the Campy website.

Short v. long? Short has less pulley cage sticking out to get bent by
misadventure. So, IMHO, if a short cage works 100% (no problems when
you forget which gear you're in and which way you wanted to shift) then
the short is better. --D-y

Mark Hickey said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

'Company line'-

Standard or compact crank and all cogsets offered EXCEPT 13-29-short
cage. 13-29, and Standard and CT crank-medium cage. Triple crank and
all cogsets BUT 13-29-medium cage, triple and 13-29-long cage.

In actual practice, a short cage, standard crank works fine with a
13-29...a medium cage and any combo is fine as well, as is the long
cage. JUST need to size the chain properly.

Is it possible that there are bikes with certain chainstay lengths
might run into minor chain droop issues with a 29 tooth cog and a
short cage RD? Not that this would be a real problem, of course.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Since chainstays are all arouind the 40cm length, +- a wee bit, I don't
think so. Proper chain length is key..Most of the chains we see
installed elsewhere are too short.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

D'ohBoy said:

Arthur Ogus said:

Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
I can't find the info on the Campy website.

It is possible and perfectly functional to do so. I use that crank
with a short cage on one of my bikes. I even used that crank/der combo
with a 13-29 cassette once last year (but avoid the big - big, the der
will explode!).

The medium cage does offer complete compatibility with all available
Campy cassettes, but if you never plan to throw a 13-29 on it, the 5
gms you save might be important to you.

Weight is not everything. That short cage derailleur
looks [censored]'.

--
Michael Press

D'ohBoy said:

It is possible and perfectly functional to do so. I use that crank
with a short cage on one of my bikes. I even used that crank/der combo
with a 13-29 cassette once last year (but avoid the big - big, the der
will explode!).

Whether the der explodes has nothing to do with which chainring the
chain's on, and everything to do with how long the chain is. It might be
better to have the chain long enough for the big-big and slightly sagging
on small-small, rather than decent in small-small and exploding on ig-big.

Jasper

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

D'ohBoy said:

Arthur Ogus said:

Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
I can't find the info on the Campy website.

It is possible and perfectly functional to do so. I use that crank
with a short cage on one of my bikes. I even used that crank/der combo
with a 13-29 cassette once last year (but avoid the big - big, the der
will explode!).

We have a demo bike with a 13-29 and short cage with a standard crank
and big-big is fine and dandy plus small-small doesn't have chain droop
or pulley-cog interference in biggest cog.

Quoted message said:

Yah, yah, you're correct. I used the same chain for the 13-29 +
compact combo that I did for my 12-25. It's when you change cassette
sizes with the same chain that the big-big combo starts to become a
problem. Sorry for the misinformation.

But if you do plan to go back and forth between, say, a 11-23 and a
13-29, then the medium cage der becomes more useful.

D'ohBoy

In article <2006120122594016807-arthurogusnopam@maccom>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
I can't find the info on the Campy website.

Thanks.

Maybe no help as this isn't Campy but I'm currently running a 50-34 compact
with an 11-28 cassette and a Shimano short-cage derailleur (older Ultegra 600).
Works fine after proper adjustment.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Since chainstays are all arouind the 40cm length, +- a wee bit, I don't
think so. Proper chain length is key..Most of the chains we see
installed elsewhere are too short.

I *assume* Mark was thinking that the "wee bit" in question would make the
difference between needing an extra link or not which would be the
difference of a full inch in chain length. Would that matter on a 13-29/39-
53?

Note that I'm running a short cage Record on that setup and it performs
great! (Of course while it *could* work, I do avoid the 53:29, 53:26 and
39:13 combinations for the obvious reasons.) So at least from this sample
of one, testing shows you are right. (Not that I would have any doubt about
that when it comes to Campy related questions. <grin>😉

Cheers,
David

[email hidden] wrote in news:1165085877.028562.201240@
16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

Short v. long? Short has less pulley cage sticking out to get bent by
misadventure. So, IMHO, if a short cage works 100% (no problems when
you forget which gear you're in and which way you wanted to shift) then
the short is better. --D-y

You forgot the most important reason for the short cage Record: The carbon
fiber cage just looks so cool! <Putting on my asbestos suit in preparation
for the incoming flames from the anti-CF and "anti-fashionable looks"
crowds.>

Cheers,
David

D'ohBoy said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

D'ohBoy said:

Arthur Ogus wrote:
> Is it possible (desirable) to use a Campagnolo Record
> compact crank with a 12-25 cassette and a short cage
> derailleur? The LBS is recommending a medium cage.
> I can't find the info on the Campy website.

It is possible and perfectly functional to do so. I use that crank
with a short cage on one of my bikes. I even used that crank/der combo
with a 13-29 cassette once last year (but avoid the big - big, the der
will explode!).

We have a demo bike with a 13-29 and short cage with a standard crank
and big-big is fine and dandy plus small-small doesn't have chain droop
or pulley-cog interference in biggest cog.

Quoted message said:

Yah, yah, you're correct. I used the same chain for the 13-29 +
compact combo that I did for my 12-25. It's when you change cassette
sizes with the same chain that the big-big combo starts to become a
problem.

Add a few link so the big/big combination will work with the largest
cog you'll ever have back there. Then you can still switch cassettes
back and forth and not have a problem when you're a bit tired or
otherwise distracted and shift into the big/big combination.

Quoted message said:

But if you do plan to go back and forth between, say, a 11-23 and a
13-29, then the medium cage der becomes more useful.

It's still not necessary. Just size the chain so it'll work in the big
chainring/29-tooth cog combination. That way you're not risking your
above "der. will explode" scenario if you accidentally try to shift
into that combination some day. At worst there would be a slight
amount of chain droop if you accidentally shift into the small/small
combination on some cassettes - no big deal.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

We have a demo bike with a 13-29 and short cage with a standard crank
and big-big is fine and dandy plus small-small doesn't have chain droop
or pulley-cog interference in biggest cog.

Yes, as I indicated, I found that it does work, but it leads to the
question of if it's a good idea to use the big-big and small-small
combos?

I worry about the chain angle mostly and if I'm creating unnecessary
drive train wear. Of course they are duplicate gears anyway. But am I
worried about nothing? Is it reasonable to use all the gear combos?

Then again, the Ergopower shifters make it *so* easy to shift between
adjacent ratios by pressing both levers or both buttons at the same time.
In fact, it works so well that I even look forward to the double shifts.
While the folks at Rivendale talk about the *pleasures* of getting stuck
in the wrong gear with downtube friction shifting (and yes, I do know
that's somewhat tongue in cheek), after more than 20 years of it, I'm
beyond that pleasure and truly enjoy the reliable index shifting of the
ErgoPower.

Cheers,
David

Solvang Cyclist said:

[email hidden] wrote in news:1165085877.028562.201240@
16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

Short v. long? Short has less pulley cage sticking out to get bent by
misadventure. So, IMHO, if a short cage works 100% (no problems when
you forget which gear you're in and which way you wanted to shift) then
the short is better. --D-y

You forgot the most important reason for the short cage Record: The carbon
fiber cage just looks so cool! <Putting on my asbestos suit in preparation
for the incoming flames from the anti-CF and "anti-fashionable looks"
crowds.>

Cheers,
David

the long cage is carpet fiber also-

Solvang Cyclist said:

Yes, as I indicated, I found that it does work, but it leads to the
question of if it's a good idea to use the big-big and small-small
combos?

In short, no. But, your set-up has to be able to use them, especially the
big-big combo, because, under stress, you might accidentally shift into
that gear even if you never planned to. It better fit; that is, the
chain better be long enough, or else.

Quoted message said:

I worry about the chain angle mostly and if I'm creating unnecessary
drive train wear. Of course they are duplicate gears anyway.

Why use all the combinations if they are duplicate gears? This also
applies to standard chainring sizes, where with 8-10 speed cassettes gives
a lot of overlap gears. Better to widen the jump between the chainrings
and use a tighter cassette, so that you have more choice -- or, with a
wider cassette, you get lower gears. Wins either way. But, avoid big-big
and small-small, which in any system will be redundant.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not
_`\(,_ | certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to
(_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein

Solvang Cyclist said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

We have a demo bike with a 13-29 and short cage with a standard crank
and big-big is fine and dandy plus small-small doesn't have chain droop
or pulley-cog interference in biggest cog.

Yes, as I indicated, I found that it does work, but it leads to the
question of if it's a good idea to use the big-big and small-small
combos?

I worry about the chain angle mostly and if I'm creating unnecessary
drive train wear. Of course they are duplicate gears anyway. But am I
worried about nothing? Is it reasonable to use all the gear combos?...

Cross-chaining is only acceptable on a RWD recumbent which has a BB
spindle to rear axle length of 120+ cm, or the even rarer mid-drive
which eliminates cross-chaining altogether.

--
Tom Sherman - Post Free or Die!