De Rosa bottom bracket threads

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I've bought an aluminum De Rosa UG frame, similar to a Merak, I think.
I just wanted to confirm that it would have a 70 mm Italian threaded
bottom bracket.

-Eric

that is correct, all DeRosa's are the far superior Italian thread.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I've bought an aluminum De Rosa UG frame, similar to a Merak, I

think.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just wanted to confirm that it would have a 70 mm Italian

threaded

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bottom bracket.

-Eric

that is correct, all DeRosa's are the far superior Italian thread.

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

Let's start with the [censored] size dimensional callouts (36mm x 24TPI
55°) Metric diameters (for example 25.4mm or 1"😉 with imperial TPI -
Threads per Inch pitch combined with the obsolete BSW (British Standard
Whitworth) 55° threadform.

"BSW (British Standard Whitworth) A coarse thread devised and
standardized at Manchester in 1841 by British Engineer Sir Joseph
Whitworth (1803 - 87). It is used in many types of engineering
throughout the world,although in Britain its use is now being superseded
by the ISO metric system."

http://homepages.tesco.net/~A10bsa/bswgo.htm

Even the Brits standardized bikes years ago with 60° BSC (British
Standard Cycle) thread forms.

"This fine thread profile was formulated for, and is well suited to
cycle and motorcycle applications. Its fine pitch, allows high torque
settings, and resists the tendency to loosen under vibration, the larger
core diameter also gives greater shear strength."

http://homepages.tesco.net/~A10bsa/bscgo.htm

In 1948 Britain officially switched to the Unified Thread System along
with Canada and the US. There were some minor differences in the thread
root and crest forms but they were interchangeable.

http://www.timebus.co.uk/rlh/whitworth.htm

Britain eventually (partially) adopted the ISO metric tread system but
not before it cost them dearly:

"In order to assure the free circulation of engineering components and
subassemblies in the European Common Market, the UK government - led by
Harold Wilson - announced in May 1965 that British industry would
abandon the inch within ten years and adopt ISO metric standards. The
first attempt to produce a British engine to metric standards was
already in progress at Leyland Motors with the Leyland 500 engine.
However, this was marketed in continental Europe only in the Leyland
National bus, whose full metrication was never completed: it
incorporated four different screw-thread standards and was impossible to
manage in European workshops.

British Leyland vehicles failed to attract continental dealers because
the inch was already alien in mainland Europe - it had actually been
outlawed in mechanical engineering in Germany during the 1930s. It
remained only in water- and gas-pipes, and in certain items imported
from the United States.

Inch threads had no future in Europe, but the planned conversion of
British engineering factories did not occur. As a result, the UK's
non-metric products were rejected by Europe as a nuisance."

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v405/n6782/full/405013c0.html

So in summation, why are the metric dimensioned obsolete 55° British
thread forms used on Italian bikes superior?

Maybe I'm missing something but why is 36mm x 24 TPI superior to
34.798mm x 24 TPI (1.37" x 24 TPI) or even French 35mm x 1mm bottom
bracket threads?

Is it for the same reason that Bianchi partnered up with Giorgio Armani
to market the Emporio Armani bike?

"The Emporio Armani Sportbike will be offered for sale exclusively in
selected Emporio Armani boutiques worldwide and in the most prestigious
specialty dealers." ;-)

http://www.cycleurope.com/ce_hl_armani_sportbike.asp

Chas. - Where's my pink lycra!!!

* * Chas said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I've bought an aluminum De Rosa UG frame, similar to a Merak, I

think.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just wanted to confirm that it would have a 70 mm Italian

threaded

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bottom bracket.

-Eric

that is correct, all DeRosa's are the far superior Italian thread.

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

[snip irrelevant details concerning metal objects unrelated to Italian
threads]

Caro Chas,

http://www.american.com/archive/2006/november/devil-wears-kiton

Acclamazioni,

Carlo Uccello

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've bought an aluminum De Rosa UG frame, similar to a Merak, I

think.

Quoted message said:

> I just wanted to confirm that it would have a 70 mm Italian

threaded

Quoted message said:

> bottom bracket.
>
> -Eric

that is correct, all DeRosa's are the far superior Italian thread.

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

[snip irrelevant details concerning metal objects unrelated to Italian
threads]

Caro Chas,

http://www.american.com/archive/2006/november/devil-wears-kiton

Acclamazioni,

Carlo Uccello

Like I said, where's my pink......

Carlo di Medici

In article
<[email hidden]>,

* * Chas said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I've bought an aluminum De Rosa UG frame, similar to a Merak, I

think.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just wanted to confirm that it would have a 70 mm Italian

threaded

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bottom bracket.

-Eric

that is correct, all DeRosa's are the far superior Italian thread.

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

Congratulations, you have been trolled. Peter has been
running this line for a while.

--
Michael Press

I say that anytime anybody says anything about BB threads...just to be
an 'Italofile'..

* * Chas said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I've bought an aluminum De Rosa UG frame, similar to a Merak, I

think.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just wanted to confirm that it would have a 70 mm Italian

threaded

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bottom bracket.

-Eric

that is correct, all DeRosa's are the far superior Italian thread.

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

Let's start with the [censored] size dimensional callouts (36mm x 24TPI
55°) Metric diameters (for example 25.4mm or 1"😉 with imperial TPI -
Threads per Inch pitch combined with the obsolete BSW (British Standard
Whitworth) 55° threadform.

"BSW (British Standard Whitworth) A coarse thread devised and
standardized at Manchester in 1841 by British Engineer Sir Joseph
Whitworth (1803 - 87). It is used in many types of engineering
throughout the world,although in Britain its use is now being superseded
by the ISO metric system."

http://homepages.tesco.net/~A10bsa/bswgo.htm

Even the Brits standardized bikes years ago with 60° BSC (British
Standard Cycle) thread forms.

"This fine thread profile was formulated for, and is well suited to
cycle and motorcycle applications. Its fine pitch, allows high torque
settings, and resists the tendency to loosen under vibration, the larger
core diameter also gives greater shear strength."

http://homepages.tesco.net/~A10bsa/bscgo.htm

In 1948 Britain officially switched to the Unified Thread System along
with Canada and the US. There were some minor differences in the thread
root and crest forms but they were interchangeable.

http://www.timebus.co.uk/rlh/whitworth.htm

Britain eventually (partially) adopted the ISO metric tread system but
not before it cost them dearly:

"In order to assure the free circulation of engineering components and
subassemblies in the European Common Market, the UK government - led by
Harold Wilson - announced in May 1965 that British industry would
abandon the inch within ten years and adopt ISO metric standards. The
first attempt to produce a British engine to metric standards was
already in progress at Leyland Motors with the Leyland 500 engine.
However, this was marketed in continental Europe only in the Leyland
National bus, whose full metrication was never completed: it
incorporated four different screw-thread standards and was impossible to
manage in European workshops.

British Leyland vehicles failed to attract continental dealers because
the inch was already alien in mainland Europe - it had actually been
outlawed in mechanical engineering in Germany during the 1930s. It
remained only in water- and gas-pipes, and in certain items imported
from the United States.

Inch threads had no future in Europe, but the planned conversion of
British engineering factories did not occur. As a result, the UK's
non-metric products were rejected by Europe as a nuisance."

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v405/n6782/full/405013c0.html

So in summation, why are the metric dimensioned obsolete 55° British
thread forms used on Italian bikes superior?

Maybe I'm missing something but why is 36mm x 24 TPI superior to
34.798mm x 24 TPI (1.37" x 24 TPI) or even French 35mm x 1mm bottom
bracket threads?

Is it for the same reason that Bianchi partnered up with Giorgio Armani
to market the Emporio Armani bike?

"The Emporio Armani Sportbike will be offered for sale exclusively in
selected Emporio Armani boutiques worldwide and in the most prestigious
specialty dealers." ;-)

http://www.cycleurope.com/ce_hl_armani_sportbike.asp

Chas. - Where's my pink lycra!!!

* * Chas said:

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

Let's start with the [censored] size dimensional callouts (36mm x 24TPI
55°) Metric diameters (for example 25.4mm or 1"😉 with imperial TPI -
Threads per Inch pitch combined with the obsolete BSW (British Standard
Whitworth) 55° threadform.

"BSW (British Standard Whitworth) A coarse thread devised and
standardized at Manchester in 1841 by British Engineer Sir Joseph
Whitworth (1803 - 87). It is used in many types of engineering
throughout the world,although in Britain its use is now being superseded
by the ISO metric system."

Hello,

Italian threads may be a [censored]-sized, but to jump to the defense of
Whitworth threads, as someone who also rides a Norton motorcycle (which
has a few Whitworth threads and a lot of Whitworth-sized bolt heads
with "cycle threads"😉:

Keith Duckworth (of Cosworth Engineering) said in an early '90's
interview for 'Car Design & Technology' magazine that the engineering
industry had "the perfect thread" but discarded it, referring to
Whitworth threads. Whitworth is a very strong threadform.

-Eric

"Eric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

* * Chas said:

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

Let's start with the [censored] size dimensional callouts (36mm x 24TPI
55°) Metric diameters (for example 25.4mm or 1"😉 with imperial TPI -
Threads per Inch pitch combined with the obsolete BSW (British

Standard

Quoted message said:

Whitworth) 55° threadform.

"BSW (British Standard Whitworth) A coarse thread devised and
standardized at Manchester in 1841 by British Engineer Sir Joseph
Whitworth (1803 - 87). It is used in many types of engineering
throughout the world,although in Britain its use is now being

superseded

Quoted message said:

by the ISO metric system."

Hello,

Italian threads may be a [censored]-sized, but to jump to the defense of
Whitworth threads, as someone who also rides a Norton motorcycle (which
has a few Whitworth threads and a lot of Whitworth-sized bolt heads
with "cycle threads"😉:

Keith Duckworth (of Cosworth Engineering) said in an early '90's
interview for 'Car Design & Technology' magazine that the engineering
industry had "the perfect thread" but discarded it, referring to
Whitworth threads. Whitworth is a very strong threadform.

-Eric

There will always be a Britland! Rule Britania!

Whitworth threads and the other British thread systems were more of a
merchantile exercise than one of engineering efforts. The intention was
to keep the Empire dependent on Blighty for manufactured goods by
limiting their ability to get replacement parts from other nations. Why
do you think the inch system is called imperial - fractional portions of
a dead Brit kings foot!

Britrish engineering - an oxymoron. It's been discribed as pounding a
Swiss
watch movement into a horse turd with a copper maul that you can only
get at a certain store in Manchester after you've qued up for the
appropriate lenght of time. ;-)

Do you have a cookie sheet (or rather bisqet tin) under your Norton?
;-)

The British pastime for automobile owners was to tinker around the
gay-rage on Saturday so that one could go motoring on Sunday. It
consisted of retightening all of the bolts and wipeing up the oil leaks!

Chas. We should have listened to Thomas Jefferson in the first place!

* * Chas said:

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

Don't forget that the "right"-handed BB fixed cup thread means it may
unscrew in use with traditional BBs unless superhuman torque is used.

* * Chas said:

"Eric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

* * Chas said:

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

Let's start with the [censored] size dimensional callouts (36mm x 24TPI
55°) Metric diameters (for example 25.4mm or 1"😉 with imperial TPI -
Threads per Inch pitch combined with the obsolete BSW (British

Standard

Quoted message said:

Whitworth) 55° threadform.

"BSW (British Standard Whitworth) A coarse thread devised and
standardized at Manchester in 1841 by British Engineer Sir Joseph
Whitworth (1803 - 87). It is used in many types of engineering
throughout the world,although in Britain its use is now being

superseded

Quoted message said:

by the ISO metric system."

Hello,

Italian threads may be a [censored]-sized, but to jump to the defense of
Whitworth threads, as someone who also rides a Norton motorcycle (which
has a few Whitworth threads and a lot of Whitworth-sized bolt heads
with "cycle threads"😉:

Keith Duckworth (of Cosworth Engineering) said in an early '90's
interview for 'Car Design & Technology' magazine that the engineering
industry had "the perfect thread" but discarded it, referring to
Whitworth threads. Whitworth is a very strong threadform.

-Eric

There will always be a Britland! Rule Britania!

Whitworth threads and the other British thread systems were more of a
merchantile exercise than one of engineering efforts. The intention was
to keep the Empire dependent on Blighty for manufactured goods by
limiting their ability to get replacement parts from other nations. Why
do you think the inch system is called imperial - fractional portions of
a dead Brit kings foot!

Britrish engineering - an oxymoron. It's been discribed as pounding a
Swiss
watch movement into a horse turd with a copper maul that you can only
get at a certain store in Manchester after you've qued up for the
appropriate lenght of time. ;-)

Having owned three Brit cars and having to deal, both professionally
and personally, with quit alot of Brit hi-fi gear, I can second that!

Quoted message said:

Do you have a cookie sheet (or rather bisqet tin) under your Norton?
;-)

Someone once described Jaguars as "beautiful sculptures built around an
oil leak".

Quoted message said:

The British pastime for automobile owners was to tinker around the
gay-rage on Saturday so that one could go motoring on Sunday. It
consisted of retightening all of the bolts and wipeing up the oil leaks!

That's only when you weren't dealing with those damned SU carbs and
those Gawd-Awful Lucas electricals! Oh, then there's those weak-kneed
cooling systems.....

Quoted message said:

Chas. We should have listened to Thomas Jefferson in the first place!

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* * Chas wrote:
The British pastime for automobile owners was to tinker around the
gay-rage on Saturday so that one could go motoring on Sunday. It
consisted of retightening all of the bolts and wipeing up the oil

leaks!

Quoted message said:

That's only when you weren't dealing with those damned SU carbs and
those Gawd-Awful Lucas electricals! Oh, then there's those weak-kneed
cooling systems.....

Joseph Lucas (or his son Harry) supposedly said "No god fearing man has
any business being out after 8:00PM.".

SU carbs - an engine fire waiting to happen. Fires would have been more
common except for the Lucas electricals! ;-)

Chas.

O-V R:nen said:

* * Chas said:

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

Don't forget that the "right"-handed BB fixed cup thread means it may
unscrew in use with traditional BBs unless superhuman torque is used.

balderdash...properly prepped frames and properly installed Italian
threaded BBs do not unscrew. I have ridden DeRosa, Simoncini, Merckx,
Mondonico, Ciocc, and have never had one unscrew that I installed, nor
any of my customers. Don't need 'superhuman' torque...

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

O-V R:nen said:

* * Chas said:

Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do you
consider Italian threads superior?

Don't forget that the "right"-handed BB fixed cup thread means it may
unscrew in use with traditional BBs unless superhuman torque is used.

balderdash...properly prepped frames and properly installed Italian
threaded BBs do not unscrew. I have ridden DeRosa, Simoncini, Merckx,
Mondonico, Ciocc, and have never had one unscrew that I installed, nor
any of my customers. Don't need 'superhuman' torque...

Me agree with you. I had a three italian bb bikes. When I adjusted
them, the bbs never unscrewed. However, in two of them, someone else
originally installed the bbs. :-(
Not thinking about the possibility of getting stuck, I didn't checked
fixed cup tighteness. So, on the way back from a couple of rides, I
ended up riding a mile, getting off, hand tightening the fixed cup,
riding anothe mile, getting off, trying to hitch a ride, hand
tightening my bb....etc.
Since it is hard to get proper torque with the BB fixed cup tool alone,
and I didn't want to spring for a hozan tool, I ended up making a tools
that has served me both as a bb fixed cup torque tool and a headset
press. The tool has been useful to tighten and to remove fixed cups.
nowadys I have english threads and the boring shimano un71/51 bbs or
campy veloce cartridges. The fun is over.

Andres

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

O-V R:nen wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't forget that the "right"-handed BB fixed cup thread means it may
unscrew in use with traditional BBs unless superhuman torque is used.

Quoted message said:

balderdash...properly prepped frames and properly installed Italian
threaded BBs do not unscrew. I have ridden DeRosa, Simoncini, Merckx,
Mondonico, Ciocc, and have never had one unscrew that I installed, nor
any of my customers. Don't need 'superhuman' torque...

Yeah, what do I know. As far as cycling is concerned, the only Italian
threads I'm familiar with are Castelli, Giordana, Nalini, Santini...
(My Campagnolo jersey says "Made in Albania" so I guess it doesn't
qualify.)

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

O-V R:nen said:

"* * Chas" <[email hidden]> writes:

> Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> consider Italian threads superior?

Don't forget that the "right"-handed BB fixed cup thread means it

may

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unscrew in use with traditional BBs unless superhuman torque is

used.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

balderdash...properly prepped frames and properly installed Italian
threaded BBs do not unscrew. I have ridden DeRosa, Simoncini,

Merckx,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mondonico, Ciocc, and have never had one unscrew that I installed,

nor

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

any of my customers. Don't need 'superhuman' torque...

Me agree with you. I had a three italian bb bikes. When I adjusted
them, the bbs never unscrewed. However, in two of them, someone else
originally installed the bbs. :-(
Not thinking about the possibility of getting stuck, I didn't checked
fixed cup tighteness. So, on the way back from a couple of rides, I
ended up riding a mile, getting off, hand tightening the fixed cup,
riding anothe mile, getting off, trying to hitch a ride, hand
tightening my bb....etc.
Since it is hard to get proper torque with the BB fixed cup tool

alone,

Quoted message said:

and I didn't want to spring for a hozan tool, I ended up making a

tools

Quoted message said:

that has served me both as a bb fixed cup torque tool and a headset
press. The tool has been useful to tighten and to remove fixed cups.
nowadys I have english threads and the boring shimano un71/51 bbs or
campy veloce cartridges. The fun is over.

Andres

Agreed, top quality fixed cups tightened with a proper tool "should"
stay tight unless the BB threads are oversize. The only fixed cups that
I've had loosen up were on French bikes.

I have Phil or Shimano BBs on most of my bikes. Saves routine
maintenance and they stay tight.

Two weeks ago my ridding buddy and I had to cut short our ride when his
Truvative BB came loose on his relatively new LeMond. Fortunately we
were close to a local pro LBS and they were open on a Sunday.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* * Chas wrote:
The British pastime for automobile owners was to tinker around the
gay-rage on Saturday so that one could go motoring on Sunday. It
consisted of retightening all of the bolts and wipeing up the oil

leaks!

Quoted message said:

That's only when you weren't dealing with those damned SU carbs and
those Gawd-Awful Lucas electricals! Oh, then there's those weak-kneed
cooling systems.....

Joseph Lucas (or his son Harry) supposedly said "No god fearing man has
any business being out after 8:00PM.".

Lucas, the Prince of Darkness and Patron Saint of Warm Beer.

Quoted message said:

SU carbs - an engine fire waiting to happen.

Didya ever try to keep a pair of SUs synchronized? Of course, it was
even worse with a threesome. 🙁(

Quoted message said:

Fires would have been more
common except for the Lucas electricals! ;-)

That's it! Limey autos are actually fitness trainers: "The Rover is out
again tonight, luv, we'll have to walk to the cinema".

* * Chas said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

O-V R:nen wrote:
> "* * Chas" <[email hidden]> writes:
>
> > Not wanting to start a confrontation, just curious but why do

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > consider Italian threads superior?
>
> Don't forget that the "right"-handed BB fixed cup thread means it

may

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> unscrew in use with traditional BBs unless superhuman torque is

used.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

balderdash...properly prepped frames and properly installed Italian
threaded BBs do not unscrew. I have ridden DeRosa, Simoncini,

Merckx,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mondonico, Ciocc, and have never had one unscrew that I installed,

nor

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

any of my customers. Don't need 'superhuman' torque...

Me agree with you. I had a three italian bb bikes. When I adjusted
them, the bbs never unscrewed. However, in two of them, someone else
originally installed the bbs. :-(
Not thinking about the possibility of getting stuck, I didn't checked
fixed cup tighteness. So, on the way back from a couple of rides, I
ended up riding a mile, getting off, hand tightening the fixed cup,
riding anothe mile, getting off, trying to hitch a ride, hand
tightening my bb....etc.
Since it is hard to get proper torque with the BB fixed cup tool

alone,

Quoted message said:

and I didn't want to spring for a hozan tool, I ended up making a

tools

Quoted message said:

that has served me both as a bb fixed cup torque tool and a headset
press. The tool has been useful to tighten and to remove fixed cups.
nowadys I have english threads and the boring shimano un71/51 bbs or
campy veloce cartridges. The fun is over.

Andres

Agreed, top quality fixed cups tightened with a proper tool "should"
stay tight unless the BB threads are oversize. The only fixed cups that
I've had loosen up were on French bikes.

Really? Why would that be? I installed a NOS Sugino French BB on a
frame (personal use) after facing the BB shell. 4k+ miles later, it's
still snug.

Quoted message said:

I have Phil or Shimano BBs on most of my bikes. Saves routine
maintenance and they stay tight.

Two weeks ago my ridding buddy and I had to cut short our ride when his
Truvative BB came loose on his relatively new LeMond. Fortunately we
were close to a local pro LBS and they were open on a Sunday.

Chas.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I say that anytime anybody says anything about BB threads...just to be
an 'Italofile'..

Uhhh... I think you mean "Italophile".

Jeff (does that make me a Snap-onophile?)

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Agreed, top quality fixed cups tightened with a proper tool "should"
stay tight unless the BB threads are oversize. The only fixed cups

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've had loosen up were on French bikes.

Really? Why would that be? I installed a NOS Sugino French BB on a
frame (personal use) after facing the BB shell. 4k+ miles later, it's
still snug.

I had a few cottered crank fixed cups come loose on 1970s French bike
boom Gitanes. Also factory installed Campy and Sugino fixed cups loosen
up on similar era Gitane "pro" bikes.

The only fixed cup that I installed that came loose was a Stronglight on
one of my other French bikes, again back in the early 1970s. Loctite
does wonders but never had a problem after we bought a VAR bottom
bracket tool set for the shop.

Chas.