Touring wheels

Using a Phil touring hub with high-flanges will build the strongest wheel,
speaking from experience (loaded touring since 95).
I've got a set that's been (all loaded with 100-130 lb bike)up the AK hiway,
x-country, and many other yearly tours of 800-1200mi.
All with re-truing once since I built them, they're currently nearly
dead-on.
The hubs are on their second set of rims, the first set pulled thru the
eyelets after maybe 10k miles.

The spoke lengths with this combo are about 2-3mm different, all sides and
front-rear, which means you can carry just a few spokes the same length for
spares (not that I've ever needed them).

They're a bit of an investment up front, but you don't have to worry about
them on the road, pretty much at all.
The Phil FSA front touring hub is really nice too (to pair with the rear for
spoke lengths), and not that spendy, around 80-100.

-pete

"Mark.Andersen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which would build into the strongest wheel?

A real touring rim (Velocity Dyad or Mavic A719) or a mid-weight off
center rim (Velocity Synergy).

I suppose the other option is an offcenter realy touring rim, but I
don't believe they exist...

The rest of the package will be 36 hole XT hubs and 14/15 DB spokes.

Thanks!

"Mark.Andersen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which would build into the strongest wheel?

A real touring rim (Velocity Dyad or Mavic A719) or a mid-weight off
center rim (Velocity Synergy).

I suppose the other option is an offcenter realy touring rim, but I
don't believe they exist...

The rest of the package will be 36 hole XT hubs and 14/15 DB spokes.

Thanks!

I'd vote for the OC Synergy. OC feature adds more to wheel stability and
durability than extra weight in a centered nipple-bed rim, i.m.o. I use the
OC Synergy for all my 29er MTB wheels and they've proven nearly bomb-proof
under the most aggressive off-road riders. . . excellent performance and
durability for a 475g, 23mm wide rim.

I recently delivered a touring set of wheels using Rohloff rear hub with a
White Industries front, both 32 hole 3-cross using Synergy, but, obviously,
neither used the OC rim. They've only been out in the world for about 2
months so no real indication of the Synergy rim durability, but I have no
doubt they'll last as long as the rider.

And use butted (2.0 / 1.8 / 2.0mm) spokes. . .

Mark.Andersen said:

Which would build into the strongest wheel?

A real touring rim (Velocity Dyad or Mavic A719) or a mid-weight off
center rim (Velocity Synergy).

I suppose the other option is an offcenter realy touring rim, but I
don't believe they exist...

The rest of the package will be 36 hole XT hubs and 14/15 DB spokes.

Thanks!

Synergies and Dyads/Aeroheats are the same weight, or at least the same
listed weight and so probably in the same ballpark in reality. You can
expect them to be around the same strength. The Synergy OC wheel will
be more durable because of the more even spoke tension. The downside is
that v-shaped rims are generally more resistant to cracking at the
spoke holes than eyeletted. That's the theory at least - not a lot of
people are really in a position to tell you how these 2 rims might
compare in this regard, and I'm not one of them. I have a 700c Synergy
OC/Phil Touring wheel with 2.0/1.7 spokes with spoke tension at
something like 100kgf right/ 75-80ish left and it's holding up fine but
I haven't put tons of miles on it yet. The Synergy is probably the one
to get for most touring purposes. A719s are in a different class than
either - they're really, really heavy.

Nate Knutson said:

Mark.Andersen said:

Which would build into the strongest wheel?

A real touring rim (Velocity Dyad or Mavic A719) or a mid-weight off
center rim (Velocity Synergy).

I suppose the other option is an offcenter realy touring rim, but I
don't believe they exist...

The rest of the package will be 36 hole XT hubs and 14/15 DB spokes.

Thanks!

Synergies and Dyads/Aeroheats are the same weight, or at least the same
listed weight and so probably in the same ballpark in reality. You can
expect them to be around the same strength. The Synergy OC wheel will
be more durable because of the more even spoke tension. The downside is
that v-shaped rims are generally more resistant to cracking at the
spoke holes than eyeletted. That's the theory at least - not a lot of
people are really in a position to tell you how these 2 rims might
compare in this regard, and I'm not one of them. I have a 700c Synergy
OC/Phil Touring wheel with 2.0/1.7 spokes with spoke tension at
something like 100kgf right/ 75-80ish left and it's holding up fine but
I haven't put tons of miles on it yet. The Synergy is probably the one
to get for most touring purposes. A719s are in a different class than
either - they're really, really heavy.

correction: 700 synergy oc's are listed at 490, while dyads are 480.
this doesn't make any sense because 26" aeroheats are listed at 440 at
synergies 430. but they're the same general weight/strength class
regardless.

Mark.Andersen said:

Which would build into the strongest wheel?

A real touring rim (Velocity Dyad or Mavic A719) or a mid-weight off
center rim (Velocity Synergy).

I suppose the other option is an offcenter realy touring rim, but I
don't believe they exist...

The rest of the package will be 36 hole XT hubs and 14/15 DB spokes.

Thanks!

No such thing as a free lunch. OC Velocity rims are much lighter than
the others mentioned and the 'OC' feature doesn't offset the lack of
weight. I would use the Dyad or T719/720 for touring rims and enough
spokes(NOT 32), built well.

Ritchey used to have OC trekking rims but haven't seen them for a while.

Nate Knutson said:

Nate Knutson said:

Mark.Andersen said:

Which would build into the strongest wheel?

A real touring rim (Velocity Dyad or Mavic A719) or a mid-weight off
center rim (Velocity Synergy).

I suppose the other option is an offcenter realy touring rim, but I
don't believe they exist...

The rest of the package will be 36 hole XT hubs and 14/15 DB spokes.

Thanks!

Synergies and Dyads/Aeroheats are the same weight, or at least the same
listed weight and so probably in the same ballpark in reality. You can
expect them to be around the same strength. The Synergy OC wheel will
be more durable because of the more even spoke tension. The downside is
that v-shaped rims are generally more resistant to cracking at the
spoke holes than eyeletted. That's the theory at least - not a lot of
people are really in a position to tell you how these 2 rims might
compare in this regard, and I'm not one of them. I have a 700c Synergy
OC/Phil Touring wheel with 2.0/1.7 spokes with spoke tension at
something like 100kgf right/ 75-80ish left and it's holding up fine but
I haven't put tons of miles on it yet. The Synergy is probably the one
to get for most touring purposes. A719s are in a different class than
either - they're really, really heavy.

correction: 700 synergy oc's are listed at 490, while dyads are 480.
this doesn't make any sense because 26" aeroheats are listed at 440 at
synergies 430. but they're the same general weight/strength class
regardless.

OC Synergys, I agree, would be the best chice, forcot about them.

Pete Grey said:

Using a Phil touring hub with high-flanges will build the strongest wheel,
speaking from experience (loaded touring since 95).
I've got a set that's been (all loaded with 100-130 lb bike)up the AK hiway,
x-country, and many other yearly tours of 800-1200mi.
All with re-truing once since I built them, they're currently nearly
dead-on.
The hubs are on their second set of rims, the first set pulled thru the
eyelets after maybe 10k miles.

The spoke lengths with this combo are about 2-3mm different, all sides and
front-rear, which means you can carry just a few spokes the same length for
spares (not that I've ever needed them).

They're a bit of an investment up front, but you don't have to worry about
them on the road, pretty much at all.

I've done a bit of loaded touring on Shimano Deore DX hubs. 1991
vintage. Never worried about them at all. The person in this thread
mentioned using XT hubs. He won't have to worry about them at all
either. I don't see the point in spending $384 for a Phil Wood rear
hub when a $50 XT will perform just as well, just as long.

Quoted message said:

The Phil FSA front touring hub is really nice too (to pair with the rear for
spoke lengths), and not that spendy, around 80-100.

-pete

"Mark.Andersen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which would build into the strongest wheel?

A real touring rim (Velocity Dyad or Mavic A719) or a mid-weight off
center rim (Velocity Synergy).

I suppose the other option is an offcenter realy touring rim, but I
don't believe they exist...

The rest of the package will be 36 hole XT hubs and 14/15 DB spokes.

Thanks!

Quoted message said:

Pete Grey said:

Using a Phil touring hub with high-flanges will build the strongest wheel,
speaking from experience (loaded touring since 95).
I've got a set that's been (all loaded with 100-130 lb bike)up the AK hiway,
x-country, and many other yearly tours of 800-1200mi.
All with re-truing once since I built them, they're currently nearly
dead-on.
The hubs are on their second set of rims, the first set pulled thru the
eyelets after maybe 10k miles.

The spoke lengths with this combo are about 2-3mm different, all sides and
front-rear, which means you can carry just a few spokes the same length for
spares (not that I've ever needed them).

They're a bit of an investment up front, but you don't have to worry about
them on the road, pretty much at all.

I've done a bit of loaded touring on Shimano Deore DX hubs. 1991
vintage. Never worried about them at all. The person in this thread
mentioned using XT hubs. He won't have to worry about them at all
either. I don't see the point in spending $384 for a Phil Wood rear
hub when a $50 XT will perform just as well, just as long.

I seriously doubt they will last as long. Long, maybe; as long as a
Phil, very unlikely. I have a set of 1979 Phil hubs still being used
for commuting, touring, and various forms of utility cycling (e.g.,
hauling home loads of groceries). Any Shimano hub that old, if it was
still usable, would have needed several sets of new cups.

The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less maintenance
needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty fixes on
my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty repair, even
in the first year .....

- rick

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The Phil FSA front touring hub is really nice too (to pair with the rear for
spoke lengths), and not that spendy, around 80-100.

-pete

"Mark.Andersen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which would build into the strongest wheel?

A real touring rim (Velocity Dyad or Mavic A719) or a mid-weight off
center rim (Velocity Synergy).

I suppose the other option is an offcenter realy touring rim, but I
don't believe they exist...

The rest of the package will be 36 hole XT hubs and 14/15 DB spokes.

Thanks!

Rick said:

I seriously doubt they will last as long. Long, maybe; as long as a
Phil, very unlikely. I have a set of 1979 Phil hubs still being used
for commuting, touring, and various forms of utility cycling (e.g.,
hauling home loads of groceries). Any Shimano hub that old, if it was
still usable, would have needed several sets of new cups.

The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less maintenance
needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty fixes on
my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty repair, even
in the first year .....

On the other side, if you buy one for 8/9/10 130 mm cassettes, how likely
is it that twenty, thirty years from now you'll still be using the same
hubs?

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Rick said:

I seriously doubt they will last as long. Long, maybe; as long as a
Phil, very unlikely. I have a set of 1979 Phil hubs still being used
for commuting, touring, and various forms of utility cycling (e.g.,
hauling home loads of groceries). Any Shimano hub that old, if it was
still usable, would have needed several sets of new cups.

The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less maintenance
needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty fixes on
my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty repair, even
in the first year .....

On the other side, if you buy one for 8/9/10 130 mm cassettes, how likely
is it that twenty, thirty years from now you'll still be using the same
hubs?

Depends on how much you buy into the bicycle marketing hype. And a
touring cyclist is (a) less likely than most to buy into the hype, and
(b) not likely to be running a 130mm OLN hub. Note the alternative in
the discussion is a 135mm OLN, and a Phil Wood can be had n either, and
can be converted from one to the other. We had this discussion this
weekend as a good friend was convinced to upgrade to 10sp, from 9sp, by
another friend who coincidentallly manages a racing team (name brand
team in the US). My good friend was astonished when she found out that
she had no more range than before! Shock! The marketing mavens keep
forgetting to mention that for Joe/Jane Average Cyclist there is no
advantage of 10sp over 9 or 8, and only marginal over 7sp cassettes.
If folks start thinking, rather than blindly following, then the
madness of adding incremental changes that mean nothing can be stopped.

- rick

Jasper Janssen said:

Rick said:

I seriously doubt they will last as long. Long, maybe; as long as a
Phil, very unlikely. I have a set of 1979 Phil hubs still being used
for commuting, touring, and various forms of utility cycling (e.g.,
hauling home loads of groceries). Any Shimano hub that old, if it was
still usable, would have needed several sets of new cups.

The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less maintenance
needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty fixes on
my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty repair, even
in the first year .....

On the other side, if you buy one for 8/9/10 130 mm cassettes, how likely
is it that twenty, thirty years from now you'll still be using the same
hubs?

Jasper

I donno, I'm using hubs made in 1985...

"Rick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pete Grey said:

Using a Phil touring hub with high-flanges will build the

strongest wheel,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

speaking from experience (loaded touring since 95).
I've got a set that's been (all loaded with 100-130 lb

bike)up the AK hiway,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

x-country, and many other yearly tours of 800-1200mi.
All with re-truing once since I built them, they're

currently nearly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dead-on.
The hubs are on their second set of rims, the first set

pulled thru the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eyelets after maybe 10k miles.

The spoke lengths with this combo are about 2-3mm

different, all sides and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

front-rear, which means you can carry just a few spokes the

same length for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spares (not that I've ever needed them).

They're a bit of an investment up front, but you don't have

to worry about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them on the road, pretty much at all.

I've done a bit of loaded touring on Shimano Deore DX hubs.

1991

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

vintage. Never worried about them at all. The person in

this thread

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mentioned using XT hubs. He won't have to worry about them

at all

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

either. I don't see the point in spending $384 for a Phil

Wood rear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hub when a $50 XT will perform just as well, just as long.

I seriously doubt they will last as long. Long, maybe; as long

as a

Quoted message said:

Phil, very unlikely. I have a set of 1979 Phil hubs still

being used

Quoted message said:

for commuting, touring, and various forms of utility cycling

(e.g.,

Quoted message said:

hauling home loads of groceries). Any Shimano hub that old, if

it was

Quoted message said:

still usable, would have needed several sets of new cups.

Phil makes some nice stuff, and I'm all for supporting Phil
(although Phil the man is retired), but it is not miracle
equipment. The old hubs like yours were not all that great at
sealing out water -- not as good as the more modern labrynth
seals on the Ultegra hubs. I bought my first pair in '75 (and
they were used), and if I blew a bearing, I would ride or walk
over to Phil's shop with my wheel and have one of the guys pop in
a new one. No fuss, no muss -- and no charge. Now Phil charges
for bearing replacements, and I have to ship from PDX -- not so
convenient. Also, after moving to a wet environment, I found out
how whimpy the seals really are. You have to watch them more
than a good pair of Shimano hubs. The new Phil hubs have user
serviceable bearings which is a real plus, but then again, they
cost eight times more than a decent Shimano hub. I have some
real loyalty to Phil-the-man since he started up in my home town
and his son was a friend of mine, and in the '70s his hubs were
way better than Campy NR with their useless dust covers (cheaper,
too) -- and the company still makes fine stuff (and some
otherwise unavailable stuff like arcane BB rings, etc. and super
beefy tandem hubs), but almost $400 for a standard rear hub is
just too much considering the state of modern labrynth seals and
fat axles on MTB hubs. -- Jay Beattie.

Quoted message said:

The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less

maintenance

Quoted message said:

needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty

fixes on

Quoted message said:

my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty

repair, even

Quoted message said:

in the first year .....

- rick

Jay Beattie said:

Phil makes some nice stuff, and I'm all for supporting Phil
(although Phil the man is retired), but it is not miracle
equipment. The old hubs like yours were not all that great at
sealing out water -- not as good as the more modern labrynth
seals on the Ultegra hubs. I bought my first pair in '75 (and
they were used), and if I blew a bearing, I would ride or walk
over to Phil's shop with my wheel and have one of the guys pop in
a new one. No fuss, no muss -- and no charge. Now Phil charges
for bearing replacements, and I have to ship from PDX -- not so
convenient. Also, after moving to a wet environment, I found out
how whimpy the seals really are. You have to watch them more
than a good pair of Shimano hubs.

I agree with this. The old DX hubs already mentioned were nice but had
lousy seals compared to newer Shimano MTB hubs, which are about as
good as it gets. For hands-off reliability and user-serviceability, not
to mention cost, XT hubs are a no-brainer. Deore and "lower" parts may be
just as good, and an even better value. The previous generation were
functionally identical from STX through XTR.

Quoted message said:

The new Phil hubs have user
serviceable bearings which is a real plus, but then again, they
cost eight times more than a decent Shimano hub. I have some
real loyalty to Phil-the-man since he started up in my home town
and his son was a friend of mine, and in the '70s his hubs were
way better than Campy NR with their useless dust covers (cheaper,
too) -- and the company still makes fine stuff (and some
otherwise unavailable stuff like arcane BB rings, etc. and super
beefy tandem hubs), but almost $400 for a standard rear hub is
just too much considering the state of modern labrynth seals and
fat axles on MTB hubs. -- Jay Beattie.

Phil's BBs are problem solvers for some people, in which case they may be
worth the cost. Otherwise, most of these things are just gentlemen's
trinkets, fancy and expensive.

Matt O.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Rick said:

The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less maintenance
needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty fixes on
my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty repair, even
in the first year .....

On the other side, if you buy one for 8/9/10 130 mm cassettes, how likely
is it that twenty, thirty years from now you'll still be using the same
hubs?

I donno, I'm using hubs made in 1985...

Sure, but somehow it seems to me that particularly 8s and possibly 10s
cassettes by 2025 will be pretty hard to find.
Things-to-screw-on-freewheel-threads currently have a larger installed
base than either 8s or 10s may have by then.

And that's if nobody changes the spline pattern altogether and eventually
drops the old unpopular product altogether.

Or just goes bust.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Jasper Janssen said:

On 13 Nov 2006 08:52:19 -0800, "Rick" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less maintenance
>needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty fixes on
>my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty repair, even
>in the first year .....

On the other side, if you buy one for 8/9/10 130 mm cassettes, how likely
is it that twenty, thirty years from now you'll still be using the same
hubs?

I donno, I'm using hubs made in 1985...

Sure, but somehow it seems to me that particularly 8s and possibly 10s
cassettes by 2025 will be pretty hard to find.
Things-to-screw-on-freewheel-threads currently have a larger installed
base than either 8s or 10s may have by then.

And that's if nobody changes the spline pattern altogether and eventually
drops the old unpopular product altogether.

Or just goes bust.

Jasper

I agree, I wouldn't expect anything to be the same in bike 'stuff' in 2
decades. Who the hell knows. I was wrong about 9s, afterall. I have
lots of '80s stuff, hubs, BBs, crank, freewheels, so that by the time I
quit riding, maybe in 20 years, I'll be running out of this stuff, then
I won't care.

Rick said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Rick said:

I seriously doubt they will last as long. Long, maybe; as long as a
Phil, very unlikely. I have a set of 1979 Phil hubs still being used
for commuting, touring, and various forms of utility cycling (e.g.,
hauling home loads of groceries). Any Shimano hub that old, if it was
still usable, would have needed several sets of new cups.

The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less maintenance
needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty fixes on
my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty repair, even
in the first year .....

On the other side, if you buy one for 8/9/10 130 mm cassettes, how likely
is it that twenty, thirty years from now you'll still be using the same
hubs?

Depends on how much you buy into the bicycle marketing hype. And a
touring cyclist is (a) less likely than most to buy into the hype, and
(b) not likely to be running a 130mm OLN hub. Note the alternative in
the discussion is a 135mm OLN, and a Phil Wood can be had n either, and
can be converted from one to the other. We had this discussion this
weekend as a good friend was convinced to upgrade to 10sp, from 9sp, by
another friend who coincidentallly manages a racing team (name brand
team in the US). My good friend was astonished when she found out that
she had no more range than before! Shock! The marketing mavens keep
forgetting to mention that for Joe/Jane Average Cyclist there is no
advantage of 10sp over 9 or 8, and only marginal over 7sp cassettes.

I agree; for a recreational cyclist, a well thought out 8SP rear/
triple front will give you all the range you'll ever need and nice,
close steps on the rear.

Quoted message said:

If folks start thinking, rather than blindly following, then the
madness of adding incremental changes that mean nothing can be stopped.

I'm afraid it's too late. The marketeers have killed Common Sense and
thinking is discouraged. :-(

"Rick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Rick said:

I seriously doubt they will last as long. Long, maybe; as long as

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Phil, very unlikely. I have a set of 1979 Phil hubs still being

used

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for commuting, touring, and various forms of utility cycling (e.g.,
hauling home loads of groceries). Any Shimano hub that old, if it

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

still usable, would have needed several sets of new cups.

The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less maintenance
needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty fixes

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty repair,

even

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the first year .....

On the other side, if you buy one for 8/9/10 130 mm cassettes, how

likely

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is it that twenty, thirty years from now you'll still be using the

same

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hubs?

Depends on how much you buy into the bicycle marketing hype. And a
touring cyclist is (a) less likely than most to buy into the hype, and
(b) not likely to be running a 130mm OLN hub. Note the alternative in
the discussion is a 135mm OLN, and a Phil Wood can be had n either,

and

Quoted message said:

can be converted from one to the other. We had this discussion this
weekend as a good friend was convinced to upgrade to 10sp, from 9sp,

by

Quoted message said:

another friend who coincidentallly manages a racing team (name brand
team in the US). My good friend was astonished when she found out

that

Quoted message said:

she had no more range than before! Shock! The marketing mavens keep
forgetting to mention that for Joe/Jane Average Cyclist there is no
advantage of 10sp over 9 or 8, and only marginal over 7sp cassettes.
If folks start thinking, rather than blindly following, then the
madness of adding incremental changes that mean nothing can be

stopped.

Quoted message said:

- rick

The operant term here is "Feature Sprawl". More and more features that
the marketoids can use to hook your interest to the point of reduced
functionality.

Chas.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Jasper Janssen wrote:
> On 13 Nov 2006 08:52:19 -0800, "Rick" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> >The other reasons to consider a Phil over an XT: less

maintenance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >needed, and the warranty. Phil Wood is still doing warranty

fixes on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >my 27+ year old hubs. Try to get Shimano to do a warranty

repair, even

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >in the first year .....
>
> On the other side, if you buy one for 8/9/10 130 mm cassettes,

how likely

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> is it that twenty, thirty years from now you'll still be using

the same

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> hubs?

I donno, I'm using hubs made in 1985...

Sure, but somehow it seems to me that particularly 8s and possibly

10s

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cassettes by 2025 will be pretty hard to find.
Things-to-screw-on-freewheel-threads currently have a larger

installed

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base than either 8s or 10s may have by then.

And that's if nobody changes the spline pattern altogether and

eventually

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drops the old unpopular product altogether.

Or just goes bust.

Jasper

I agree, I wouldn't expect anything to be the same in bike 'stuff' in

2

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decades. Who the hell knows. I was wrong about 9s, afterall. I have
lots of '80s stuff, hubs, BBs, crank, freewheels, so that by the time

I

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quit riding, maybe in 20 years, I'll be running out of this stuff,

then

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I won't care.

As a long time bike-a-holic I currently have 7 of them - 2 MTBs and 5
roadies. Quantities have gone up and down over the years.

Bikes are like shoes, if I wear a different pair every other day they'll
last for years.

Emelda... ;-)

Chas.

Ozark Bicycle said:

I agree; for a recreational cyclist, a well thought out 8SP rear/
triple front will give you all the range you'll ever need and nice,
close steps on the rear.

So does 3/9 though, with little to no compromise. Cassettes, shifters and
chains are pretty much premium-free comparing 8 to 9. I'd say that -- at
least for new installations[1] -- it makes more sense to go for either 7
or 9.

Jasper

[1] If you've got an 8, by all means continue using it, obviously)