Blood Doping Experiment...

Mark Fennell said:

...in reverse. If you're curious about the benefit of getting an infusion of
red blood cells, try the following:

1. Do a maximal aerobic effort, say, anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour,
preferably on a climb, and record your time (or distance, or whatever).

2. Go donate a pint of blood the next day.

3. Then 2-3 days later, repeat the maximal effort and record your results
again for comparison.

Your output after the blood letting will be ~10% less than it was a few days
before. Does that same relationship apply if one were to add 10% red blood
cells?

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

dumbass,

this is a great study proposal. check your mail for your funding cheque.

Quoted message said:

Mark Fennell said:

...in reverse. If you're curious about the benefit of getting an infusion of
red blood cells, try the following:

1. Do a maximal aerobic effort, say, anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour,
preferably on a climb, and record your time (or distance, or whatever).

2. Go donate a pint of blood the next day.

3. Then 2-3 days later, repeat the maximal effort and record your results
again for comparison.

Your output after the blood letting will be ~10% less than it was a few days
before. Does that same relationship apply if one were to add 10% red blood
cells?

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

dumbass,

this is a great study proposal. check your mail for your funding cheque.

I'd donate where they pay immed. in cash, myself. --D-y

Mark Fennell said:

Your output after the blood letting will be ~10% less than it was a few days
before.

Dumbass -

How do you know that?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your output after the blood letting will be ~10% less than it was a few days
before.

Dumbass -

How do you know that?

Dumbass, Because I did it. And it makes sense I think. Surely aerobic
power output near threshold is roughly linear with the amount of red
blood cells, at least when you're in the region of normal. I seem to
recall CSO Coggan saying that the limitation is *not* getting oxygen
into your lungs, but rather transporting it to muscle cells.

So the experiment is in reverse of the way the blood-doping scum bags
do it, but it is still interesting (to me at least). I can say it was a
bit bizarre to do a maximal effort 3 days after donating, like climbing
with extra dead weight attached. For a true blood doper, packing an
extra 10%, it must be like dropping 10-15 lbs with no power loss.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your output after the blood letting will be ~10% less than it was a few days
before.

Dumbass -

How do you know that?

Dumbass, Because I did it. And it makes sense I think. Surely aerobic
power output near threshold is roughly linear with the amount of red
blood cells, at least when you're in the region of normal. I seem to
recall CSO Coggan saying that the limitation is *not* getting oxygen
into your lungs, but rather transporting it to muscle cells.

So the experiment is in reverse of the way the blood-doping scum bags
do it, but it is still interesting (to me at least). I can say it was a
bit bizarre to do a maximal effort 3 days after donating, like climbing
with extra dead weight attached. For a true blood doper, packing an
extra 10%, it must be like dropping 10-15 lbs with no power loss.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your output after the blood letting will be ~10% less than it was a few days
before.

Dumbass -

How do you know that?

Dumbass, Because I did it. And it makes sense I think. Surely aerobic
power output near threshold is roughly linear with the amount of red
blood cells, at least when you're in the region of normal. I seem to
recall CSO Coggan saying that the limitation is *not* getting oxygen
into your lungs, but rather transporting it to muscle cells.

So the experiment is in reverse of the way the blood-doping scum bags
do it, but it is still interesting (to me at least). I can say it was a
bit bizarre to do a maximal effort 3 days after donating, like climbing
with extra dead weight attached. For a true blood doper, packing an
extra 10%, it must be like dropping 10-15 lbs with no power loss.

Oh, well, hell. You didn't say that you'd performed an uncontrolled
experiment on a sampling of one where the subject had expectations of
the outcome. I think you should write it up and send it in to one of
the medical journals. I'll look for Dr. Dumbass' article in my issue
of JAMA.

BTW, it's standard procedure to quote the name of the poster you're
replying to as well as some of the text. It makes it easier to follow
the thread.

R

RicodJour said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Your output after the blood letting will be ~10% less than it was a few days
> before.

Dumbass -

How do you know that?

Dumbass, Because I did it. And it makes sense I think. Surely aerobic
power output near threshold is roughly linear with the amount of red
blood cells, at least when you're in the region of normal. I seem to
recall CSO Coggan saying that the limitation is *not* getting oxygen
into your lungs, but rather transporting it to muscle cells.

So the experiment is in reverse of the way the blood-doping scum bags
do it, but it is still interesting (to me at least). I can say it was a
bit bizarre to do a maximal effort 3 days after donating, like climbing
with extra dead weight attached. For a true blood doper, packing an
extra 10%, it must be like dropping 10-15 lbs with no power loss.

Oh, well, hell. You didn't say that you'd performed an uncontrolled
experiment on a sampling of one where the subject had expectations of
the outcome. I think you should write it up and send it in to one of
the medical journals. I'll look for Dr. Dumbass' article in my issue
of JAMA.

Sorry Rico, I didn't know you were looking to rbr for serious and
useful information. Now that I know, I'll point you to this:

Panebianco RA, Stachenfeld N, Coplan NL, et al: Effects of blood
donation on exercise performance in competitive cyclists. American
Heart Journal, 1995

....which pretty much agrees with my observation. At one level, the
outcome is completely obvious and predictable, but the more interesting
thing to me is the very strange sensation of having so much less power
under nearly identical environmental and fitness conditions. My point
was simply to suggest a way to get a visceral sense of the improvement
you (or your favorite Euro pro) could get by *adding* blood. We all
know they do it, but can you really relate to "the extra gear" it
provides?

Quoted message said:

BTW, it's standard procedure to quote the name of the poster you're
replying to as well as some of the text. It makes it easier to follow
the thread.

Yeah, sorry, I got sloppy. Henry does that to me...

Quoted message said:

RicodJour said:

Oh, well, hell. You didn't say that you'd performed an uncontrolled
experiment on a sampling of one where the subject had expectations of
the outcome. I think you should write it up and send it in to one of
the medical journals. I'll look for Dr. Dumbass' article in my issue
of JAMA.

Sorry Rico, I didn't know you were looking to rbr for serious and
useful information. Now that I know, I'll point you to this:

Panebianco RA, Stachenfeld N, Coplan NL, et al: Effects of blood
donation on exercise performance in competitive cyclists. American
Heart Journal, 1995

...which pretty much agrees with my observation. At one level, the
outcome is completely obvious and predictable, but the more interesting
thing to me is the very strange sensation of having so much less power
under nearly identical environmental and fitness conditions. My point
was simply to suggest a way to get a visceral sense of the improvement
you (or your favorite Euro pro) could get by *adding* blood. We all
know they do it, but can you really relate to "the extra gear" it
provides?

I'm not sure I follow you. You drain some blood and you feel weaker.
There's no surprise there. Blood doping does the opposite and that's
why some athletes do it. No surprise there.

I was hoping for a surprise.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BTW, it's standard procedure to quote the name of the poster you're
replying to as well as some of the text. It makes it easier to follow
the thread.

Yeah, sorry, I got sloppy. Henry does that to me...

Henry's a dumbass.

R