Bicycle Search Engine Opens

Ryan Lanctot said:

Greetings:

Bicycles for Humanity, whose mission is to help empower women, children
and aids workers by providing them with bicycles, would like to invite
you to add your site to our new bike search engine!

If your organisation weren't so sexist, I'd be more inclined to assist.

Cheers,

Vince

Vincent Patrick said:

Ryan Lanctot said:

Greetings:

Bicycles for Humanity, whose mission is to help empower women, children
and aids workers by providing them with bicycles, would like to invite
you to add your site to our new bike search engine!

If your organisation weren't so sexist, I'd be more inclined to assist.

Cheers,

Vince

What? I would have thought you would add some explanation for a [censored]
like that.
Been doing a lot for others, lately, Vince?

Donga

In aus.bicycle on 3 Nov 2006 19:05:47 -0800

Donga said:

Vincent Patrick said:

Ryan Lanctot said:

Greetings:

Bicycles for Humanity, whose mission is to help empower women, children
and aids workers by providing them with bicycles, would like to invite
you to add your site to our new bike search engine!

If your organisation weren't so sexist, I'd be more inclined to assist.

What? I would have thought you would add some explanation for a [censored]
like that.

The ad could have been better worded I suppose, but I bet that the
people who need the bikes most *are* women (who in Africa tend to do
the most travelling as they are responsible for getting water and most
of the food), children who have to travel a long way to school, and aid
workers (especially health workers) who also have to travel a long way.
Men who have jobs need them too, but they also have money. And as far as
I know they don't travel as much, the jobs are local or they move to them.

I believe the same generalities are true in most 3rd world countries.

Zebee

Donga said:

Vincent Patrick said:

Ryan Lanctot said:

Greetings:

Bicycles for Humanity, whose mission is to help empower women, children
and aids workers by providing them with bicycles, would like to invite
you to add your site to our new bike search engine!

If your organisation weren't so sexist, I'd be more inclined to assist.

Cheers,

Vince

What? I would have thought you would add some explanation for a [censored]
like that.

It is hardly a "[censored]" to point out organisational sexism. Since you asked,
here is my explanation. When Ryan wrote "Bicycles for Humanity, whose
mission is to help empower women, children and aids workers by providing
them with bicycles..." it was quite obvious to me that his organisation was
purposefully missing out on a good chunk of humanity based on their sex.

You might endorse that type of sexism, and if so, fell free to go ahead and
donate a bike or two.

I hope that clarifies things.

Cheers,

Vince

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on 3 Nov 2006 19:05:47 -0800

Donga said:

Vincent Patrick said:

Ryan Lanctot wrote:

> Greetings:
>
> Bicycles for Humanity, whose mission is to help empower women,
> children and aids workers by providing them with bicycles, would like
> to invite you to add your site to our new bike search engine!

If your organisation weren't so sexist, I'd be more inclined to assist.

What? I would have thought you would add some explanation for a [censored]
like that.

The ad could have been better worded I suppose, but I bet that the
people who need the bikes most *are* women (who in Africa tend to do
the most travelling as they are responsible for getting water and most
of the food), children who have to travel a long way to school, and aid
workers (especially health workers) who also have to travel a long way.
Men who have jobs need them too, but they also have money. And as far as
I know they don't travel as much, the jobs are local or they move to them.

I believe the same generalities are true in most 3rd world countries.

Zebee

Thanks Zebee. I agree it is fine if most of the bikes are used by those men
or women who would actually use/need them. I just didn't agree with the
sexism imposed by the organisation.

Cheers,

Vince

Vincent Patrick said:

Thanks Zebee. I agree it is fine if most of the bikes are used by those men
or women who would actually use/need them. I just didn't agree with the
sexism imposed by the organisation.

The Grabeen Bank(?) targetted women for a particular reason, because it
would have the most effect on villages. They have been proven correct.

You need to understand the dominant local culture and make small steps.
Let the locals make the other changes.

Vincent Patrick said:

It is hardly a "[censored]" to point out organisational sexism. Since you asked,
here is my explanation. When Ryan wrote "Bicycles for Humanity, whose
mission is to help empower women, children and aids workers by providing
them with bicycles..." it was quite obvious to me that his organisation was
purposefully missing out on a good chunk of humanity based on their sex.

You might endorse that type of sexism, and if so, fell free to go ahead and
donate a bike or two.

It is for a reason. You might like to research what goes on it the real
world. It isn't all National Geographic sterotypical villages.

Giving a woman a bicycle to cart the water for the whole family and then
here other tasks is going to achive more than giving a bicycle to a man
to ride to work and having it not doing anything except for the ride
home. children also work from an early age.

Frankly, the number of bicycles they have is probably a drop in the
ocean and if they have to prioritise who gets them, then that is the
best thing to do.

Terryc said:

Vincent Patrick said:

It is hardly a "[censored]" to point out organisational sexism. Since you
asked,
here is my explanation. When Ryan wrote "Bicycles for Humanity, whose
mission is to help empower women, children and aids workers by providing
them with bicycles..." it was quite obvious to me that his organisation
was purposefully missing out on a good chunk of humanity based on their
sex.

You might endorse that type of sexism, and if so, fell free to go ahead
and donate a bike or two.

It is for a reason. You might like to research what goes on it the real
world. It isn't all National Geographic sterotypical villages.

Giving a woman a bicycle to cart the water for the whole family and then
here other tasks is going to achive more than giving a bicycle to a man
to ride to work and having it not doing anything except for the ride
home. children also work from an early age.

Frankly, the number of bicycles they have is probably a drop in the
ocean and if they have to prioritise who gets them, then that is the
best thing to do.

It is probably true that you or I don't have a really clear idea of the
final destinations. But that is hardly an excuse for the organisational
sexism in the original posting.

Terry, it seems to me that you have given a good reason to offer the bikes
to those who would use them most, irrespective of their sex. Not all women
will make more use of bicycles than some men. For all we know, it may even
be that the men would find bikes more useful than the women would. After
all, this would be the finding in most other countries.

Irrespective of whether men or women have a greater potential need, there
will be an overlap. Therefore it makes sense to me to offer the bicycles
based on need rather than an individual's sex. If they have to prioritise
and they choose to refuse access to men, then the usefulness of their
distributed bicycles is likely to be reduced.

Cheers,

Vince

Terryc said:

Vincent Patrick said:

Thanks Zebee. I agree it is fine if most of the bikes are used by those
men
or women who would actually use/need them. I just didn't agree with the
sexism imposed by the organisation.

The Grabeen Bank(?) targetted women for a particular reason, because it
would have the most effect on villages. They have been proven correct.

You need to understand the dominant local culture and make small steps.
Let the locals make the other changes.

My understanding is that the Grameen Bank doesn't exclude men, but targets
those who are very poor and cannot get finance ('microfinance'😉 for
otherwise viable small businesses, including dad-and-mum businesses, etc.

And yes, we should let the local people make decisions, rather than try to
push western ideologies.

Cheers,

Vince

'This thread is cycling off into the distance...'

In aus.bicycle on Sat, 04 Nov 2006 20:52:35 +0800

Vincent Patrick said:

Thanks Zebee. I agree it is fine if most of the bikes are used by those men
or women who would actually use/need them. I just didn't agree with the
sexism imposed by the organisation.

The problem is that the sexism is required. THey are being quite open
that they are targetting women and children, and deliberately so.

Sexism is about needless discrimination, it's not sexist to target men
for education about prostate cancer after all.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Sat, 04 Nov 2006 20:52:35 +0800

Vincent Patrick said:

Thanks Zebee. I agree it is fine if most of the bikes are used by those
men
or women who would actually use/need them. I just didn't agree with the
sexism imposed by the organisation.

The problem is that the sexism is required. THey are being quite open
that they are targetting women and children, and deliberately so.

Sexism is about needless discrimination, it's not sexist to target men
for education about prostate cancer after all.

Zebee

I would agree its not sexist to target women for education about ovarian
cancer, too. However, I disagree with your suggestion that institutional
sexism is required in regard to bicycles. Either sex can ride and make
good use of bicycles.

As a 'goose and gander' hypothetical, consider whether an organisation would
be sexist if it only provided bicycles to men and their children in third
world countries. Now consider whether that sexism is necessary on the
grounds that the organisation is deliberately targeting men and children.

Anyway, if you support their sexism, you can always give them a bicycle or
two. As I said initially, if their organisation weren't so sexist, I'd be
more inclined to assist. I just don't support their sexism.

Cheers,

Vince

Vincent Patrick said:

If they have to prioritise
and they choose to refuse access to men, then the usefulness of their
distributed bicycles is likely to be reduced.

Can i suggest you watch a few more basic docos on Africa, etc. You will
see a thousand reasons why their targetting is legitimate. Mem usually
get the most food (children mostly die) so they have the enegy to walk.
work for the men may take them away fromthe village for days, but
10miles to the water source is every day.

There are other projects, bicycle and otherwise. If I was packing the
containers based on what I see around my street, then I would also be
looking for over there industries that could use the other parts of
unusable bicycles and so a heck of a lot of other bits would alos fill
the spaces. then you just drop those bits at the local "blacksmith" and
leave him to it.

I am prepared to accept that this targetting is what the locals want and
not impose my "western partriarchial" values on this re-use project.

Terryc said:

Vincent Patrick said:

If they have to prioritise
and they choose to refuse access to men, then the usefulness of their
distributed bicycles is likely to be reduced.

Can i suggest you watch a few more basic docos on Africa, etc. You will
see a thousand reasons why their targetting is legitimate. Mem usually
get the most food (children mostly die) so they have the enegy to walk.
work for the men may take them away fromthe village for days, but
10miles to the water source is every day.

Honestly, even with the wealth of information you have from television
documentaries, I would be surprised if you could provide 20 valid excuses
for their sexism, let alone the 1000 you mention.

If it happens that women would make more use of the bicycles, that's fine by
me. On the other hand it is still not a good reason for an organisation to
only provide bicycles to one sex.

On the other hand, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that men would
make more use of bicycles than the women. Men transport things, take
articles to market, and go to distant workplaces too. Historically, and in
most other countries, it has been men rather than women who have used
bicycles more. If men made more use of the bicycles supplied, should
bicycles only be supplied to men and their children? No, humanitarian
organisations should supply to both men and women. After all, you empower
people, not just one sex.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I am prepared to accept that this targetting is what the locals want and
not impose my "western partriarchial" values on this re-use project.

We don't know if the majority of locals want bicycles only for women and
children. And in his context surely you mean imposing your 'western
matriarchal values'? Chuckle :-)

Cheers,

Vince

'Bicycles need fish'

Vincent Patrick said:

Honestly, even with the wealth of information you have from television
documentaries, I would be surprised if you could provide 20 valid
excuses for their sexism, let alone the 1000 you mention.

If it happens that women would make more use of the bicycles, that's
fine by me. On the other hand it is still not a good reason for an
organisation to only provide bicycles to one sex.

On the other hand, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that
men would make more use of bicycles than the women. Men transport
things, take articles to market, and go to distant workplaces too.
Historically, and in most other countries, it has been men rather
than women who have used bicycles more.

That's a very high horse you're sitting on there Vincent. I do hope you can
get off without falling. :-)

Theo

Vincent Patrick said:

Donga said:

Vincent Patrick said:

Ryan Lanctot wrote:

> Greetings:
>
> Bicycles for Humanity, whose mission is to help empower women, children
> and aids workers by providing them with bicycles, would like to invite
> you to add your site to our new bike search engine!

If your organisation weren't so sexist, I'd be more inclined to assist.

Cheers,

Vince

What? I would have thought you would add some explanation for a [censored]
like that.

It is hardly a "[censored]" to point out organisational sexism. Since you asked,
here is my explanation. When Ryan wrote "Bicycles for Humanity, whose
mission is to help empower women, children and aids workers by providing
them with bicycles..." it was quite obvious to me that his organisation was
purposefully missing out on a good chunk of humanity based on their sex.

You might endorse that type of sexism, and if so, fell free to go ahead and
donate a bike or two.

Choosing to help one demographic isn't discriminatory. It's
when you defy the basic rights of another that it becomes
discriminatory.

I suppose you feel breast cancer charities are also sexist?

Tam

Tamyka Bell said:

Choosing to help one demographic isn't discriminatory. It's
when you defy the basic rights of another that it becomes
discriminatory.

I suppose you feel breast cancer charities are also sexist?

Tam

Just to add argument to the thread... did you know that for every 100
women that develop breast cancer approximately 1 man develops it too.
If we rarely hear about it, or if our focus is entirely on the sex that
predominantly suffers, does that make it sexist?

.... now back to bikes...!

:-)

--
Bean

"I've got a bike
You can ride it if you like
It's got a basket
A bell that rings
And things to make it look good
I'd give it to you if I could
But I borrowed it" Pink Floyd

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

Tamyka Bell said:

Vincent Patrick said:

Donga said:

Vincent Patrick wrote:
> Ryan Lanctot wrote:
>
> > Greetings:
> >
> > Bicycles for Humanity, whose mission is to help empower women,
> > children and aids workers by providing them with bicycles, would
> > like to invite you to add your site to our new bike search engine!
>
> If your organisation weren't so sexist, I'd be more inclined to
> assist.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Vince

What? I would have thought you would add some explanation for a [censored]
like that.

It is hardly a "[censored]" to point out organisational sexism. Since you
asked,
here is my explanation. When Ryan wrote "Bicycles for Humanity, whose
mission is to help empower women, children and aids workers by providing
them with bicycles..." it was quite obvious to me that his organisation
was purposefully missing out on a good chunk of humanity based on their
sex.

You might endorse that type of sexism, and if so, fell free to go ahead
and donate a bike or two.

Choosing to help one demographic isn't discriminatory. It's
when you defy the basic rights of another that it becomes
discriminatory.

I suppose you feel breast cancer charities are also sexist?

Tam

Hey, Tam, read some of the other parts of this thread and you'll find we've
been through this. Quickly, the answer is 'no'.

Cheers,

Vince

Theo Bekkers said:

Vincent Patrick said:

Honestly, even with the wealth of information you have from television
documentaries, I would be surprised if you could provide 20 valid
excuses for their sexism, let alone the 1000 you mention.

If it happens that women would make more use of the bicycles, that's
fine by me. On the other hand it is still not a good reason for an
organisation to only provide bicycles to one sex.

On the other hand, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that
men would make more use of bicycles than the women. Men transport
things, take articles to market, and go to distant workplaces too.
Historically, and in most other countries, it has been men rather
than women who have used bicycles more.

That's a very high horse you're sitting on there Vincent. I do hope you
can get off without falling. :-)

Theo

Yep. It's like riding a penny-farthing, or a high 'bent. The view's pretty
good from up here, and with practice we can all learn to do it.

Ah, mate, sometimes you've just got to tell the emperor he's not wearing any
clothes. The empress too ...

Cheers,

Vince

'Off with his head!'

Vincent Patrick said:

Quoted message said:

That's a very high horse you're sitting on there Vincent. I do hope you
can get off without falling. :-)

Theo

Yep. It's like riding a penny-farthing, or a high 'bent. The view's pretty
good from up here, and with practice we can all learn to do it.

Ah, mate, sometimes you've just got to tell the emperor he's not wearing any
clothes. The empress too ...

lol, no mirrors around your place.