Giant TCR Composite - long

Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly. I'm sure I'll be told if I am ;-)

I read that the bike was involved in a crash descending a mountain - avoiding a car - during which
the frame was damaged, and now your nephew wants a refund because the bike was damaged in a crash??

If that's the case, it seems unreasonable to me. Sorry. He should have had insurance in place and it
sounds as if he's trying to get a manufacturer/retailer to pay up for his own lack of foresight in
obtaining insurance. If anything, *if* the owner of the car is at fault e.g. if car was parked in a
place it shouldn't have been and it *couldn't* have been avoided, then perhaps there is a case
against said car owner. But *perhaps*, in descending a mountain, your nephew was cycling too fast,
in which case, it's possible contributory negligence or entirely his own fault??

But as I say, if I've read your original post incorrectly, I'm sure I'll be told!

Cheers, helen s (all opinions my own, I'm not a lawyer etc., etc., etc..)

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Quoted message said:

He will return to the UK in December and will be able to bring the bike/frame with him but I would
appreciate any comments/thoughts which may allow him to have a useable Giant bike?

Buy a new frame.

Sandy Morton said:

My nephew purchased the above bike with all of the relevant bits in January of this year. Whilst
descending a mountain he found a car in his path and took a quick turn to avoid it. The handlebars
hit the top tube and made a hole in it. The forks and front wheel are absolutely true after the
accident but the frame is unuseable and probably dangerous. I think that he has a claim against
either Giant or the shop who sold him the bike - I would appreciate any comments on this - the
shop is in England but the bike is in Greece. No household insurance is in place and the shop from
which it was bought have declined responsibility.

He will return to the UK in December and will be able to bring the bike/frame with him but I would
appreciate any comments/thoughts which may allow him to have a useable Giant bike?

Your nephew had a crash and its either Giant or the shops fault! Sorry you have no claim at all.

Stan Cox

--
Brighton Excelsior CC Member Cat 3 Fat Bloke Brighton, UK

"Sandy Morton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My nephew purchased the above bike with all of the relevant bits in January of this year. Whilst
descending a mountain he found a car in his path and took a quick turn to avoid it. The handlebars
hit the top tube and made a hole in it.

IANAL

So your claim is that the bike was not fit for purpose because it was unable to make a perfectly
reasonable turn? The fact that the turn was being made to avoid an obstruction (the car) is
incidental. You claim the turn was reasonable both in terms of angle of turn and speed.

On that basis, if you can show that the bike failed because it was not 'fit for its purpose' you
have a claim against the shop under the 'Sale of Goods Act'.

It is unlikely that you have a direct claim against the manufacturer unless this was a design fault
that caused you some injury -- in which case a civil case for damages might be possible.

However, all bikes are limited in their turning circle. At some point the bars or some other par of
the turning bits / front wheel gubbins (to use the technical terms) must run out of space and hit
some part of the back end (defined as anything behind the headset) of the bike.

If you can show that there was a defect either in design or set up the fact that the bike was in
Greece at the time should be irrelevant -- its an EU country anyway.

Frankly, I doubt you have a snowballs chance in hell -- unless you can show that the bike had an
unreasonably small turning circle for its type/expected use.

T

Sandy Morton said:

He will return to the UK in December and will be able to bring the bike/frame with him but I would
appreciate any comments/thoughts which may allow him to have a useable Giant bike?

I would be surprised if you get anywhere with a claim against the manufacturer or dealer. Please
keep us informed.

--
The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.

Sandy Morton said:

My nephew purchased the above bike with all of the relevant bits in January of this year. Whilst
descending a mountain he found a car in his path and took a quick turn to avoid it. The handlebars
hit the top tube and made a hole in it.

Are you sure that's what happened? If the handlebars are turned far enough and quick enough to make
a hole in the top tube I would pretty much bet the front wheel would not survive. The bike simply
can not follow that sort of steering change so the sideways on front wheel folds under instead. It's
the famous "Richard's Bicycle Book Emergency Stop Maneouver".

In any case its not a claim against the bike shop or manufacturer - do you take a cup back to the
shop if you drop it and it breaks? Take it up with his or the drivers insurance company

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

"Sandy Morton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My nephew purchased the above bike with all of the relevant bits in January of this year. Whilst
descending a mountain he found a car in his path and took a quick turn to avoid it. The handlebars
hit the top tube and made a hole in it. The forks and front wheel are absolutely true after the
accident but the frame is unuseable and probably dangerous. I think that he has a claim against
either Giant or the shop who sold him the bike

snipped

I have an aluminium framed version of this bike. I suspect that your nephew might not have described
this incident in its entirety. Did he fall or collide with the car or something else? The handlebars
need to be turned through almost 90 degrees to hit the top tube, possibly further to break it. It's
going to take quite an impact, even on a composite frame, to break the tube. Is it at all likely
that someone travelling at speed can turn the bars through 90 degrees with sufficient force to break
the tube and stay on the bike?

It seems to me unfortunate that the handlebars were at the right height to hit the top tube
(mine pass clear under) but I've never heard of anything that says that bikes shouldn't be set
up like this.

I think it's well accepted that composite frames aren't going to be very good at resisting
penetrating impacts. This applies to any thin walled material so many aluminium frames would also
fail in this situation.

Hopefully your nephew will have learnt one thing from this event - if you can't afford to stump up
the money for a replacement you must take out insurance.

---
Michael MacClancy

"Sandy Morton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

It's very difficult to know whether your nephew has a case here or not without more details, and
facts. As I'm not sure quite sure what you're saying here.

Are you saying that it was the dealers/manufacturers fault for setting up the bike so that the
handlebars hit the top tube? If so, this maybe difficult to prove as the onus in law is for him to
prove that is the case. Their obvious defence is that it was fine when it left shop and your nephew
adjusted it.

Or are you saying that the frame was faulty as it should have been able to withstand a
reasonable amount of wear and tear. This ''may'' have more validity depending upon the severity
of the accident.

bbc.co.ukindex2.shtmlOpen ↗ The Sale of Goods Acts lay down
several conditions that all goods sold by a trader must meet. The goods must be: of satisfactory
quality as described fit for purpose 'Satisfactory quality' covers minor and cosmetic defects as
well as substantial problems. It also means that products must last a reasonable time.

tradingstandards.gov.ukcalitem.cgiOpen ↗ The relevant section
here is:- Note that if the fault happens within six months of you buying the goods, the trader has
to prove that they were not faulty when you bought them. After that, you have to prove it.

Also WHEN ARE YOU NOT ENTITLED TO ANYTHING? If the fault was obvious and it would have been
reasonable to have noticed it on examination before buying. If you caused any damage yourself.

++++++++
If he believes the goods were faulty he would need to employ an independent expert to examine the
frame to show it was defective and not fit for the purpose under the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

HTH