Split rim

Ron McKinnon said:

Patrick Lamb said:

Was this a typo? 22,000 km (14,000 or so miles) sounds like it's time
for an honorable rim retirement. If, as some have read it, it was
only 2,200 km, that seems awfully low to me.

Pat

No, no typo. By contrast, my racing bike (the busted rim was on my
touring bike) which gets mostly fair-weather riding shows no
appreciable signs of wear at the rims.

Assuming this touring bike sees a fair bit of use in wet weather, and
you've had to brake in that wet weather, I think you've just plain worn
it out. But you've probably got your money's worth from it!

Pat

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dane Buson said:

In rec.bicycles.misc Claire Petersky said:

Like this?

http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/rim2.JPG

Oooh, nasty. Which reminds me, I need to get a spring caliper or
something so I can measure how much braking track I have left. My front
wheel is starting to look really concave along there.

I don't think there's an hand tool that'll definitely tell you
whether or not a rim is good to continue to use, or to toss it.
Of course, hand tools are nice to have. Especially dial/vernier
calipers/dividers.

I figure if there's a feel-able and visible "lip" + a certain degree
of striation on the rim, it's time to replace it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you commute in the PNW in the rain.

:-/ Pretty much. 4000 miles does seem like a really short lifespan
though. I've gotten about 8000 from my Alex Adventurer so far. I
already have another identical rim to swap onto the wheel when the time
comes.

I think a lot of PNW rim lifetime depends on brake pad replacement.

Y'know what? Those Kool-Stop Salmon pads everybody raves about might
stop ya a li'l quicker, but they're Living Hell on rims.

I'm using generic $2.oo soft pads (non-threaded-post cantis).
I replace 'em when they get a little glazed & noisy, and I keep
my rims & brakes generally clean.

So far it's workin' good for me.

Sometimes more expensive components ain't no substitute for
hands-on maintenance.

Sometimes more expensive components ain't no substitute
for anything.

cheers,
Tom

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Tom Keats said:

Y'know what? Those Kool-Stop Salmon pads everybody raves about might
stop ya a li'l quicker, but they're Living Hell on rims.

No, they're not. The compound is designed to not allow embedding of
debris, to prevent rim wear. In practice, they usually have a slightly
LONGER braking distance when wet, but don't ruin your rim.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hank Wirtz said:

Tom Keats said:

Y'know what? Those Kool-Stop Salmon pads everybody raves about might
stop ya a li'l quicker, but they're Living Hell on rims.

No, they're not. The compound is designed to not allow embedding of
debris, to prevent rim wear. In practice, they usually have a slightly
LONGER braking distance when wet, but don't ruin your rim.

All brake pads are prone to ruin rims, because they all eventually
pick-up & store particles and pieces that'll grind your rims down.

Y'know, as a PNW resident myself, I've used all kinds of brake pads,
and killed a number of rims, and have learned from experience.

Here is what I've learned:

1) Soft pads + (fairly) frequent replacement + maintenance &
cleaning trumps everything, hands-down.

Screw trying to buy one's self out of doing a little real work.

2) Pads that don't allow (so much) embedding of debris, are
hard. Too hard, in the wet. And they glaze too quickly.
And when they glaze, they cause additional wear & tear.

3) A darning needle is a good brake pad cleaning tool that'll
save your rims from much wear & tear. Sometimes a li'l bit
of sandpaper will get rid of surface glaze. But @ $2 for
a pair of brake pads, why bother?

As I said, I'm a PNW (Vancouver, BC) resident. I know all about
riding in the rain, and keeping my bikes working.
Soft pads plus about the same care one gives when regularly
brushing one's teeth, works.

Just keep your braking surfaces clean & clear, and the
rain-soaked world is yer Oysters Rockerfeller.

Grippy brake pads are better than slippery, hardened,
glazed ones.

cheers,
Tom

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Above address is just a spam midden.
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"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hank Wirtz said:

Tom Keats said:

Y'know what? Those Kool-Stop Salmon pads everybody raves about

might

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stop ya a li'l quicker, but they're Living Hell on rims.

No, they're not. The compound is designed to not allow embedding of
debris, to prevent rim wear. In practice, they usually have a

slightly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LONGER braking distance when wet, but don't ruin your rim.

All brake pads are prone to ruin rims, because they all eventually
pick-up & store particles and pieces that'll grind your rims down.

Y'know, as a PNW resident myself, I've used all kinds of brake pads,
and killed a number of rims, and have learned from experience.

Here is what I've learned:

1) Soft pads + (fairly) frequent replacement + maintenance &
cleaning trumps everything, hands-down.

Screw trying to buy one's self out of doing a little real work.

2) Pads that don't allow (so much) embedding of debris, are
hard. Too hard, in the wet. And they glaze too quickly.
And when they glaze, they cause additional wear & tear.

3) A darning needle is a good brake pad cleaning tool that'll
save your rims from much wear & tear. Sometimes a li'l bit
of sandpaper will get rid of surface glaze. But @ $2 for
a pair of brake pads, why bother?

As I said, I'm a PNW (Vancouver, BC) resident. I know all about
riding in the rain, and keeping my bikes working.
Soft pads plus about the same care one gives when regularly
brushing one's teeth, works.

Just keep your braking surfaces clean & clear, and the
rain-soaked world is yer Oysters Rockerfeller.

Grippy brake pads are better than slippery, hardened,
glazed ones.

cheers,
Tom

I haven't found any "modern" brake pads that I like as well as the old
Wienmman black X-Block pads from the 1970's. I used to use them in Campy
brakes and other brands. They worked well wet or dry and rarely picked
up any metal from the rims. I have a set in some old Wienmman Carrera
side pull brakes on one of my retro bikes and they still work like new.

The second best pads for me were fresh Mafac rubber blocks.When new they
were nice and grabby wet or dry and if kept toed in they didn't squeal
much.

I have a NOS set of Shimano DuraAce brakes on a retro bike that I
recently built. The pads are terrible. They're hard and pick up aluminum
from the rims. I've been riding them to see if they get any better but
so far they haven't improved.

Chas.

[email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Here is what I've learned:

1) Soft pads + (fairly) frequent replacement + maintenance &
cleaning trumps everything, hands-down.

Screw trying to buy one's self out of doing a little real work.

I use the cheap black Norco 6-to-a-card ones that work out to less than
$2 each, however I have erasers that are harder and the black goop they
create is amazing. Kool-stop Salmon arn't worth a damn in the wet.

Mike Latondresse said:

[email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Here is what I've learned:

1) Soft pads + (fairly) frequent replacement + maintenance &
cleaning trumps everything, hands-down.

Screw trying to buy one's self out of doing a little real work.

I use the cheap black Norco 6-to-a-card ones that work out to less than
$2 each, however I have erasers that are harder and the black goop they
create is amazing. Kool-stop Salmon arn't worth a damn in the wet.

If I were commuting regularly in the rain, I would get a SRAM S7 hub
with I-brake for the back, a hub brake compatible dynamo hub for the
front and a full chain case. I would then (if possible) have the hubs
modified for grease injection. (A bottom bracket and headset with
grease injection would also be chosen if available).

I am too lazy to want to deal with excessive regular maintenance.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Mike Latondresse said:

[email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Here is what I've learned:

1) Soft pads + (fairly) frequent replacement + maintenance &
cleaning trumps everything, hands-down.

Screw trying to buy one's self out of doing a little real work.

I use the cheap black Norco 6-to-a-card ones that work out to less than
$2 each, however I have erasers that are harder and the black goop they
create is amazing. Kool-stop Salmon arn't worth a damn in the wet.

If I were commuting regularly in the rain, I would get a SRAM S7 hub
with I-brake for the back, a hub brake compatible dynamo hub for the
front and a full chain case.

If someone donated a Rohloff SpeedHub to me, I'd be ever so grateful.

Old fashioned centre-pull canti brakes w/ threadless-post brakepads
are cheap to maintain, fairly easy to adjust (although there's a
bit of a knack,) and easy to find parts for.

One doesn't have to spend big money to buy one's self out of
dealing with riding in the rain.

Quoted message said:

I would then (if possible) have the hubs
modified for grease injection.

In his book, John Forester favours hubs set up for oiling,
as per the venerable 3-speed Raleighs. But that's so sloppy.
Oil flings around all over the place too much.

Regreasing hub and BB bearings is no big deal. As long
as no klutz comes into your workshop and accidentally
kicks away the bearing balls as they lie drying on a rag
on the floor. A wire-mesh tea ball keeps 'em together.

Quoted message said:

(A bottom bracket and headset with
grease injection would also be chosen if available).

A front fender goes a long way toward protecting
headset (crown) bearings from the elements and
upshoot of rainwater from the front tire.

Quoted message said:

I am too lazy to want to deal with excessive regular maintenance.

I'm too cheap not to deal with regular maintenance.
I don't consider two or three times a year excessive.

cheers,
Tom

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Tom Keats said:

...
Regreasing hub and BB bearings is no big deal. As long
as no klutz comes into your workshop and accidentally
kicks away the bearing balls as they lie drying on a rag
on the floor. A wire-mesh tea ball keeps 'em together....

Have you ever done bicycle maintenance with a small domestic feline as
an assistant?

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Have you ever done bicycle maintenance with a small domestic feline as
an assistant?

Mine doesn't like the smell of the cleaning products I use but he
thinks it's playtime when I'm replacing cables. Most of the time I
just have to put up with his snoring from atop the box of brakes.
--
zk

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:26:02 -0000, Mike Latondresse

mikelat@no_spam_dccnet.com said:

[email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Here is what I've learned:

1) Soft pads + (fairly) frequent replacement + maintenance &
cleaning trumps everything, hands-down.

Screw trying to buy one's self out of doing a little real work.

I use the cheap black Norco 6-to-a-card ones that work out to less than
$2 each, however I have erasers that are harder and the black goop they
create is amazing. Kool-stop Salmon arn't worth a damn in the wet.

I found that the original Mathauser "Kool Stop" pads worked better
and lasted far longer than the Kool-Stop Salmon pads of today.

I've since switched over to the $2.00 per pair MEC generic black pads
and though they wear fast they've not caused any problems.

Rim wear is just something we have to expect, accept and monitor.

Tomorrow I'm trading a belt for a pair of Sachs internal brake hubs
laced into 26" Weinmann rims.
--
zk

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:26:02 -0000, Mike Latondresse
<mikelat@no_spam_dccnet.com> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I found that the original Mathauser "Kool Stop" pads worked better
and lasted far longer than the Kool-Stop Salmon pads of today.

I agree. The old Mathauser pads with the finned alloy backs had a nice
soft compound that lasted a long time. I liked Mafac pads because the
squeal got people's attention! ;-)

Quoted message said:

Rim wear is just something we have to expect, accept and monitor.

Never had any rim problems with 22-23mm wide Super Champion & Rigida
700c Rims. I'm still riding 3 different sets of these rims that are over
20 years old.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:26:02 -0000, Mike Latondresse
<mikelat@no_spam_dccnet.com> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I found that the original Mathauser "Kool Stop" pads worked better
and lasted far longer than the Kool-Stop Salmon pads of today.

I agree. The old Mathauser pads with the finned alloy backs had a nice
soft compound that lasted a long time. I liked Mafac pads because the
squeal got people's attention! ;-)

Quoted message said:

Rim wear is just something we have to expect, accept and monitor.

Never had any rim problems with 22-23mm wide Super Champion & Rigida
700c Rims. I'm still riding 3 different sets of these rims that are over
20 years old.

However, don't you [Chas] ride mostly in the arid SW US?

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:26:02 -0000, Mike Latondresse
<mikelat@no_spam_dccnet.com> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I found that the original Mathauser "Kool Stop" pads worked better
and lasted far longer than the Kool-Stop Salmon pads of today.

I agree. The old Mathauser pads with the finned alloy backs had a

nice

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

soft compound that lasted a long time. I liked Mafac pads because

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

squeal got people's attention! ;-)

Quoted message said:

Rim wear is just something we have to expect, accept and monitor.

Never had any rim problems with 22-23mm wide Super Champion & Rigida
700c Rims. I'm still riding 3 different sets of these rims that are

over

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

20 years old.

However, don't you [Chas] ride mostly in the arid SW US?

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Nope, that's where I did my most intense cycling, up to 200 miles a week
for 8 years. July and August was the rainy season with frequent thunder
storms. The lowest point in the state of New Mexico is 3900' the highest
over 13,000'. We had snow in December and January plus we could get some
snow in the mountains 6 months out of the year. I had several Clement
Neve sewup snow tires that I used for riding in the winter. I limited my
snow riding to slushy snow where the tires could actually contact the
pavement. Riding on hard packed snow or ice was more that I wanted to
deal with.

There's a lot of water sources in the mountains of Northern New Mexico
and Colorado where we did most of our off road riding. Lots of crossing
small streams and springs, lots of mud.

I've been living in Northern California since 1980. Our rainy season
goes from October to April. It rarely rain outside of those months. I
also spent time in Oregon, Washington and BC where rain is the norm.

Spent a week in 'Blighty in June of 1988. I loved the place except that
it rained or was overcast almost everyday.

Chas.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Have you ever done bicycle maintenance with a small domestic feline as
an assistant?

Not lately, but I have performed many concentration demanding
tasks with feline "help".

I think when a human in intently working on something, cats
perceive a sort of "beam of attention" emanating from the
human's eyes, onto the object of immediate interest. Cats
figure if they get into that beam, they'll share some of
(or hog all of) that lovely attention. The tips of their
tails are transducers which pick up additional attention
by direct contact with the source.

If their assistance is not required, they can sometimes
be distracted with something else of interest to them --
like a nice, expensive, wicker peacock chair on which
to whet their claws.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 23:32:24 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hank Wirtz said:

Tom Keats said:

Y'know what? Those Kool-Stop Salmon pads everybody raves about might
stop ya a li'l quicker, but they're Living Hell on rims.

No, they're not. The compound is designed to not allow embedding of
debris, to prevent rim wear. In practice, they usually have a slightly
LONGER braking distance when wet, but don't ruin your rim.

All brake pads are prone to ruin rims, because they all eventually
pick-up & store particles and pieces that'll grind your rims down.

1) Soft pads + (fairly) frequent replacement + maintenance &
cleaning trumps everything, hands-down.

Screw trying to buy one's self out of doing a little real work.

I've only rarely had any problems stopping with Koolstops in the wet,
but I've had all kinds of problems with embedded grit in Shimano and
generic black pads. How often do you have to inspect and clean these
black pads to keep them from chewing up your rims?

Pat

Email address works as is.