I hate roundabouts.

Simon Mason wrote:

I hate roundabouts too, I often take another route to avoid the ones under J27 of the M62. Your
story also reminded me of the cyclist I saw riding on the hard shoulder of the M1 last night.

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"Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

... I move into the right hand lane, stick arm out and now I have two lanes of traffic coming in
at 50 mph on my left.

Any roundabout that allows high speed entry puts all road users at risk, and I dislike them even
when driving a car

Simon Mason said:

Maybe I should look at the Gents road bike in last night's paper for 25 quid- I feel after 5000
miles on a heavy hybrid with fat tyres that if let loose on a road bike I can fly and then give
all those roadies who've burnt me off in the past a good pasting ;-)

Hope you won't be disappointed. Weight and tyres only make a small difference, what really slows you
down on the hybrid is the comparatively upright seating position. Riding on the drops you might gain
something like 2 or 3 mph on flat roads.

Andy

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Simon Mason wrote:

I hate roundabouts too, I often take another route to avoid the ones under J27 of the M62. Your
story also reminded me of the cyclist I saw riding on the hard shoulder of the M1 last night.

Funnily enough I drove around that roundabout yesterday afternoon after visiting Roundhay - I would
definitely not like to attempt to cycle around it (doesn't bear thinking about!) - it has double
roundabout and I nearly always miss my turning for Hull and either take the M621 back into Leeds or
end up at Ikea.

Simon

"Andy Koppe" <a n d y @ d c s . e d . a c . u k> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

Maybe I should look at the Gents road bike in last night's paper for 25 quid- I feel after 5000
miles on a heavy hybrid with fat tyres that if

let

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

loose on a road bike I can fly and then give all those roadies who've burnt me off in the past a
good pasting ;-)

Hope you won't be disappointed. Weight and tyres only make a small difference, what really slows
you down on the hybrid is the comparatively upright seating position. Riding on the drops you
might gain something

like

Quoted message said:

2 or 3 mph on flat roads.

Hmm, I got the impression from reading cycling mags that shaving a gram off some part by drilling
it out was the difference between life and death. I know that half of this is hype and companies
trying to compete with each other on weight alone, but I thought I might gain more than that.
Certainly going from knobbles to slicks on a MTB makes a large difference- anyway it's only 25
quid. Simon

Simon Mason said:

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason wrote:

I hate roundabouts too, I often take another route to avoid the ones under J27 of the M62. Your
story also reminded me of the cyclist I saw riding on the hard shoulder of the M1 last night.

Funnily enough I drove around that roundabout yesterday afternoon after visiting Roundhay - I
would definitely not like to attempt to cycle around it (doesn't bear thinking about!) - it has
double roundabout and I nearly always miss my turning for Hull and either take the M621 back into
Leeds or end up at Ikea.

Simon

If you came from Leeds you will have passed very closely by my house. My rides often mean I have to
go up the A62 to turn right at the first roundabout on to the A650 towards Bradford, that is the
last exit. Most of the vehicles have just come off the M62 and are truning right to IKEA or Batley,
few seem prepared for slow moving traffic in their path.

I have permanently adjusted my routes to avoid the J26 (M62/M606) roundabout AKA Chainbar.
Nightmare.

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Simon Mason said:

Hmm, I got the impression from reading cycling mags that shaving a gram off some part by drilling
it out was the difference between life and death.

Though this is in a sporting context, where winning is so much better than second best, and everyone
is on a more or less identical design of machine.

Weight will only make a real difference to speed where acceleration is concerned, a = f/m (don't
forget that you're fighting an acceleration to climb a hill, so it'll make a difference there even
if you just maintain speed). Once you're anything much into double figures of miles per hour
aerodynamics is the really important bit for ultimate speed, which is why the fastest HPVs have
their weight *increased* by adding fairings.

But keen roadies are fast becuase they get out and go fast a lot. It's the engine that makes the
*most* difference. Just buying a racer helps, but I would wager *very* good money that if I swapped
my Brompton with Lance's racer he'd *still* beat me out of sight, and then some.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Simon Mason said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe I should look at the Gents road bike in last night's paper for 25 quid- I feel after 5000
miles on a heavy hybrid with fat tyres that if

let

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

loose on a road bike I can fly and then give all those roadies who've burnt me off in the past
a good pasting ;-)

Hope you won't be disappointed. Weight and tyres only make a small difference, what really slows
you down on the hybrid is the comparatively upright seating position. Riding on the drops you
might gain something

like

Quoted message said:

2 or 3 mph on flat roads.

Hmm, I got the impression from reading cycling mags that shaving a gram off some part by drilling
it out was the difference between life and death.

Yeah, that's the impression manufacturers are keen to create. Although it sometimes seems like
they're believing their own hype.

Weight savings have an effect when climbing or accelerating, but they've got to be seen in relation
to the combined weight of bike _and_ rider. Although a small difference might well decide the
outcome of a race, it will be insignificant to most "normal" riders.

At constant speed on flat roads saving weight has next to no effect.

Quoted message said:

Certainly going from knobbles to slicks on a MTB makes a large difference- anyway it's only
25 quid.

Yes, that does make a big difference and must be the cheapest way to tune your MTB, because
knobblies are so utterly unsuitable to roads.

With a slick tread and pumped up to their respective maximum pressures there isn't much difference
in rolling resistance between narrow and wide tyres.

Andy

Simon Mason said:

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason wrote:

I hate roundabouts too, I often take another route to avoid the ones under J27 of the M62. Your
story also reminded me of the cyclist I saw riding on

Quoted message said:

visiting Roundhay - I would definitely not like to attempt to cycle around it (doesn't bear
thinking about!) - it has double roundabout and I nearly

Its not that bad..... I find these better than some of the smaller ones.

I have been riding in 3 days out of 5 using these roundabouts and not had any problems.

Steve

--
Steve Foster
s . p . foster (at) leeds . ac . uk

"Steve Foster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Simon Mason wrote:

I hate roundabouts too, I often take another route to avoid the ones

under

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

J27 of the M62. Your story also reminded me of the cyclist I saw riding

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

visiting Roundhay - I would definitely not like to attempt to cycle

around

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it (doesn't bear thinking about!) - it has double roundabout and I

nearly

Quoted message said:

Its not that bad..... I find these better than some of the smaller ones.

I have been riding in 3 days out of 5 using these roundabouts and not had

any problems.

Maybe because they're traffic light controlled - do they keep the lights on all night, or only at
high traffic levels?

Simon

Simon Mason said:

Set off last night around 1900 for an evening ride after zeroing my speedo odometer for a new
year's target. Beautiful crisp evening, past the sights and sounds of Hull Fair (biggest
travelling fair in Europe) and eventually onto the Humber north bank.

Pootled along the dark foreshore path, listening to the football and watching the ghostly ships
passing by until it was time to join the traffic. Riding down from the docks I have to turn right
at a large roundabout. I move into the right hand lane, stick arm out and now I have two lanes of
traffic coming in at 50 mph on my left.

Strangely, I hate traffic lights in the car but don't mind them on the bike. Conversely, I hate
roundabouts on the bike but don't mind them in the car. I conclude that roundabouts are
designed for cars.

I rather like British roundabouts: just stay in the middle of the left lane and ride flat out!
(25-30 mph in my case) And get a mirror. Methinks it's actually safer (and a lot quicker) than going
around outside the roundabout on a seperate cycle lane, crossing all exits.

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

Hmm, I got the impression from reading cycling mags that shaving a gram off some part by
drilling it out was the difference between life and death.

It may well be, if you drill the wrong part... Broke a handlebar once at 28 mph, because of a
factory installed hole. There was a grass verge, so no major damage.

Mark van Gorkom.

Peter Clinch said:

Simon Mason said:

Hmm, I got the impression from reading cycling mags that shaving a gram off some part by
drilling it out was the difference between life and death.

Though this is in a sporting context, where winning is so much better than second best, and
everyone is on a more or less identical design of machine.

Weight will only make a real difference to speed where acceleration is concerned, a = f/m (don't
forget that you're fighting an acceleration to climb a hill, so it'll make a difference there even
if you just maintain speed). Once you're anything much into double figures of miles per hour
aerodynamics is the really important bit for ultimate speed, which is why the fastest HPVs have
their weight *increased* by adding fairings.

But keen roadies are fast becuase they get out and go fast a lot. It's the engine that makes the
*most* difference. Just buying a racer helps, but I would wager *very* good money that if I swapped
my Brompton with Lance's racer he'd *still* beat me out of sight, and then some.

My default radio station , Five live, were reviewing his new book['Every Second Counts'] this
afternoon, and Simon Mayo mentioned a quote he'd read by him somewhere, which went *something*
like this:

"Some people describe themselves as either a twenty a day man, or a forty a day man, but I describe
myself as a 150 mile a day man".

Amusing......and kind of scary!!!!

gb

(Mark van Gorkom) said:

I rather like British roundabouts: just stay in the middle of the left lane and ride flat out!
(25-30 mph in my case) And get a mirror. Methinks it's actually safer (and a lot quicker) than
going around outside the roundabout on a seperate cycle lane, crossing all exits.

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

Hmm, I got the impression from reading cycling mags that shaving a gram off some part by
drilling it out was the difference between life and death.

It may well be, if you drill the wrong part...

Quoted message said:

Broke a handlebar once at 28 mph,

Don't know about anybody else, but whenever I've done between 30 and 40mph [which has not been
that often] descending a nice empty hill, I am filled with a mixture of joy, excitement and then
sheer terror. Joy and excitement at the speed and terror as my mind then fills with the
realization that virtually every nut and bolt has been tightened by ME!!!! It's a kind of weird
experience careering with this kind of bone-shaking intensity and looking at an image of your bike
in bits on the garage floor!!!!

gb

because of a factory installed hole.

Quoted message said:

There was a grass verge, so no major damage.

Mark van Gorkom.

Quoted message said:

. Joy and excitement at the speed and terror as my mind then fills with the realization that
virtually every nut and bolt has been tightened by ME!!!! It's a kind of weird experience
careering with this kind of bone-shaking intensity and looking at an image of your bike in bits
on the garage floor!!!!

It's a matter of having faith in your ability to do things by the book. I have been totally reliant
on self serviced cable and hydraulic brakes on all of the motor cycles that I have owned for the
past 25 years and have never had any doubts in their ability to function in their designated manner
and believe me, at some of the speeds that I have travelled at, not stopping when needed would have
had far more serious consequences than falling off at
40. Have faith in your ability and develop a systematic approach to stripping cleaning and
re-assembly and you'll ride your bike with the smug knowledge that it is literally an extension
of your (hopefully systematic)
psyche :-)

I too have enjoyed the thrill of high speed descents on a racing bike and my terror comes from the
thoughts of gravel rash should I have the misfortune of having a high speed front wheel puncture as
I don't have the many layers of motor cycle anti-abrasion clothing on to preserve my flesh. The pain
of gravel rash incurred in my youthful excesses on a push bike lives on in my memory.

Vernon In Leeds

Simon Mason said:

"Steve Foster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> Simon Mason wrote:
>
> I hate roundabouts too, I often take another route to avoid the ones under J27 of the M62. Your
> story also reminded me of the cyclist I saw riding on

Quoted message said:

visiting Roundhay - I would definitely not like to attempt to cycle around it (doesn't bear
thinking about!) - it has double roundabout and I nearly

Its not that bad..... I find these better than some of the smaller ones.

I have been riding in 3 days out of 5 using these roundabouts and not had any problems.

Maybe because they're traffic light controlled - do they keep the lights on all night, or only at
high traffic levels?

Simon

The one I was thinking of at the top of the A62 with the A650 joining is not light controlled.
Turing right from the A62 heading away from Leeds to go on the A650 is tricky when there is heavy
traffic. The roundabout is so big that the vehicles on it can go around fairly quickly giving any
vehicle a difficult time getting into the flow from a standing start.

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Mark van Gorkom said:

I rather like British roundabouts: just stay in the middle of the left lane and ride flat out!
(25-30 mph in my case) And get a mirror.

That would be suicide on the roundabout in question when turning right. You would cross three exits
two of which are motorway slip roads with cars trying to cross your path from the inside of the
roundabout to use these exits. I don't think a mirror would offer much protection from a juggernaut
at 30mph trying to cut you up. As Simon said it is a confusing junction with two motorways, M621
and M62, similar names. Many motorists start to use the wrong exit only to change their mind at the
last minute.

Methinks it's actually safer (and a lot quicker) than going around

Quoted message said:

outside the roundabout on a seperate cycle lane, crossing all exits.

I am afraid I leave you to test this theory.

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Steve Foster said:

Its not that bad..... I find these better than some of the smaller ones.

I have been riding in 3 days out of 5 using these roundabouts and not had any problems.

Steve

I have not had any problems, just don't like them much. I tend to avoid them when the traffic is
heavy. Which way do you negotiate them ? at what time of day ?

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Quoted message said:

That would be suicide on the roundabout in question when turning right.

Methinks it's actually safer (and a lot quicker) than going around

Quoted message said:

outside the roundabout on a seperate cycle lane, crossing all exits.

I am afraid I leave you to test this theory.

I might just do that, next time I'm cycling from Hull to Liverpool (enroute to Eire). Wasn't much
impressed with the TransPennine Trail anyway, but I don't think cyclists are allowed on the M62? I
may well have a Velomobile by that time, maybe Plod won't recognize that it's a pushtrike? Of
course, eating at motorway services is the really dangerous part...

Mark van Gorkom.