Best Brake Cable brand?

"RS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear

brake, that

Quoted message said:

stretches the least or is just generally the best type of cable?

thanks

Shimano makes some great stainless steel brake and shifter cables.

Chas.

RS said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear brake, that
stretches the least or is just generally the best type of cable?

thanks

Jagwire brand, from Quality Bike parts, a distributor. Not expensive,
works well. shimano and Campag branded, you pay extra $ for the name.

RS said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear brake, that
stretches the least or is just generally the best type of cable?

It's a matter of opinion, but here's what I've found works for me:

I buy stainless mandrel-drawn wires (they're smoother on the outside
than plain wire, and don't rust) and use them with lined cable housing
from a manufacturer with a good reputation like Jag or Shimano. I
have not found that the teflon-coated inner wires work any better than
the plain ones, and to me they seem to raise the finger effort
required. Your experience may vary; others will have their own
opinions and advice.

One other point: Unless you are miles from home and there is no
alternative, I would recommend against buying any cable sold under the
Bell name, and/or any cable sold by a mass-market-oriented discount
sporting goods store such as Academy, Sports Authority, [censored]'s and the
like. They tend to be supplied with unlined housing that's made from
round wire, and their cable tends to be either plain or thinly plated
steel without the benefit of the smoothing mentioned above. I have
dramatically reduced the finger effort required in braking on several
bikes by just replacing brand-new Bell cables and housings with decent
ones from a more reputable supplier.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

RS said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear brake, that
stretches the least or is just generally the best type of cable?

thanks

Jagwire brand, from Quality Bike parts, a distributor. Not expensive,
works well. shimano and Campag branded, you pay extra $ for the name.

Dear Peter,

BikeToolsEtc also offers a wide array of Jagwire cables (and others):

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=745689442538&c=Repair-Parts&sc=Cable-and-Housing
or http://tinyurl.com/ydfnq2

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Robert Schiller said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear
brake, that stretches the least or is just generally the best type
of cable?

Elastic elongation of brake cables (stretch) is not enough to be felt,
but if you want to minimize that which there is, buy the cable with
the largest cross section. Stainless steel having the same modulus of
elasticity as other steel cables, and made by the same process, makes
no difference except being more expensive. A brake cable should be
lubricated anyway, which prevents rust.

Stretch, or more precisely flex, occurs in the caliper and brake pad.
and possibly a tiny amount in the hand lever. Cable housing is made
of a coiled steel wire that is in contact around the inside of a cable
bend and has full contact on straight runs.

Neither the cable nor the housing yields in use so there is no
permanent "stretching". Some length change occurs when curves in a
brake cable change shape under load, but even that produces negligible
length change (cosine error).

I think you'll find that cable motion at the brake caliper is
essentially the same as at the hand lever. It is the caliper and
brake pads that deform and cause "sponge".

When installing a new cable, wipe grease on the cable with the fingers
before inserting it in the cable housing.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Robert Schiller said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear
brake, that stretches the least or is just generally the best type
of cable?

Elastic elongation of brake cables (stretch) is not enough to be felt,...

Stretch, or more precisely flex, occurs in the caliper and brake pad.
and possibly a tiny amount in the hand lever...

Neither the cable nor the housing yields in use so there is no
permanent "stretching". Some length change occurs when curves in a
brake cable change shape under load, but even that produces negligible
length change (cosine error).

I think you'll find that cable motion at the brake caliper is
essentially the same as at the hand lever. It is the caliper and
brake pads that deform and cause "sponge".

Bends in cable wires are a sometimes unappreciated source of lost
motion. I've found this to be common with center pull brakes, such as
ordinary cantilevers, but it can happen with other types.

When cantilever straddle cables are not pre-bent to run in a straight
line from the saddle to the cantilever arm, they hold the arms slightly
closed. The brakes will have to be adjusted so they are open wider to
prevent scraping on imperfectly trued rims. Then when levers are
gripped, some cable motion is lost to just straightening that curve, so
extra lever travel is required. The same can happen with direct pull
cantilevers (V-brakes). It's less common with sidepulls, since the
free run of the inner wire is naturally straight, much shorter and more
protected.

You can see examples of such bent cable runs at the bottom photo in
http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html
and in the "direct pull" photo at the top of
http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-adjustment.html

What you want are straight lines, as in the 1992 drawing by Sheldon
about halfway down http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html

I take the curves out of canti straddle cables, etc. using pliers. I
find it improves the feel of cantilevers quite a bit.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

Robert Schiller said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear
brake, that stretches the least or is just generally the best type
of cable?

Elastic elongation of brake cables (stretch) is not enough to be felt,
but if you want to minimize that which there is, buy the cable with
the largest cross section. Stainless steel having the same modulus of
elasticity as other steel cables, and made by the same process, makes
no difference except being more expensive. A brake cable should be
lubricated anyway, which prevents rust.

Stretch, or more precisely flex, occurs in the caliper and brake pad.
and possibly a tiny amount in the hand lever. Cable housing is made
of a coiled steel wire that is in contact around the inside of a cable
bend and has full contact on straight runs.

Neither the cable nor the housing yields in use so there is no
permanent "stretching". Some length change occurs when curves in a
brake cable change shape under load, but even that produces negligible
length change (cosine error).

I think you'll find that cable motion at the brake caliper is
essentially the same as at the hand lever. It is the caliper and
brake pads that deform and cause "sponge".

When installing a new cable, wipe grease on the cable with the fingers
before inserting it in the cable housing.

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

For what it's worth, at least one poster can tell the difference
between the stretch in different cable lays:

[Carl asked:]

So if the 19-strand and the 49-strand cables are roughly the same
thickness, then the 49-strand cables must use much thinner strands,
and it's the use of many thin stands that makes them more flexible and
presumably gives them a smoother texture?

[Chalo replied:]

That's why they are more supple, but their texture is coarser (since
they are essentially seven-strand cables made of wound filaments).

[Carl asked:]
Very timidly and trying not to start any arguments, but am I wrong in
thinking that I remember emphatic statements from other posters that
cables don't stretch?

[Chalo replied:]
I've seen the assertions myself. Whether the elasticity of a
19-strand cable is significant within the relevant range of tensions I
simply don't know. However, the additional stretch in a 7x7 rope lay
cable is easy to discern. I have assumed that this is due to relative
movement of the 49-strand cable's less compacted filaments.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/20729d1569cf30be

I expect that most of the cables mentioned in this thread will be 19
strand and not the 49 strand.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Werehatrack said:

RS said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear brake, that
stretches the least or is just generally the best type of cable?

It's a matter of opinion, but here's what I've found works for me:

I buy stainless mandrel-drawn wires (they're smoother on the outside
than plain wire, and don't rust) and use them with lined cable housing
from a manufacturer with a good reputation like Jag or Shimano. I
have not found that the teflon-coated inner wires work any better than
the plain ones, and to me they seem to raise the finger effort
required. Your experience may vary; others will have their own
opinions and advice.

One other point: Unless you are miles from home and there is no
alternative, I would recommend against buying any cable sold under the
Bell name, and/or any cable sold by a mass-market-oriented discount
sporting goods store such as Academy, Sports Authority, [censored]'s and the
like. They tend to be supplied with unlined housing that's made from
round wire, and their cable tends to be either plain or thinly plated
steel without the benefit of the smoothing mentioned above. I have
dramatically reduced the finger effort required in braking on several
bikes by just replacing brand-new Bell cables and housings with decent
ones from a more reputable supplier.

While lined housing and 'smoother' cables can make a diffference, an
equally important point is properly sizing the cable housing and
'dressing' the ends to eliminate burrs in the cable path. Cheaper cable
sets are usually found on cheaper bikes, which rarely receive the
needed attention to detail for smoothest operation. Given the proper
attention and a bit of grease, cheap cables can work quite well.

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear
brake, that stretches the least or is just generally the best type
of cable?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Elastic elongation of brake cables (stretch) is not enough to be
felt, but if you want to minimize that which there is, buy the
cable with the largest cross section. Stainless steel having the
same modulus of elasticity as other steel cables, and made by the
same process, makes no difference except being more expensive. A
brake cable should be lubricated anyway, which prevents rust.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Stretch, or more precisely flex, occurs in the caliper and brake
pad. and possibly a tiny amount in the hand lever. Cable housing
is made of a coiled steel wire that is in contact around the inside
of a cable bend and has full contact on straight runs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Neither the cable nor the housing yields in use so there is no
permanent "stretching". Some length change occurs when curves in a
brake cable change shape under load, but even that produces
negligible length change (cosine error).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you'll find that cable motion at the brake caliper is
essentially the same as at the hand lever. It is the caliper and
brake pads that deform and cause "sponge".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When installing a new cable, wipe grease on the cable with the
fingers before inserting it in the cable housing.

Quoted message said:

For what it's worth, at least one poster can tell the difference
between the stretch in different cable lays:

======================================================================

Quoted message said:

[Carl asked:]

Quoted message said:

So if the 19-strand and the 49-strand cables are roughly the same
thickness, then the 49-strand cables must use much thinner strands,
and it's the use of many thin stands that makes them more flexible
and presumably gives them a smoother texture?

Quoted message said:

[Chalo replied:]

Quoted message said:

That's why they are more supple, but their texture is coarser (since
they are essentially seven-strand cables made of wound filaments).

Quoted message said:

[Carl asked:]

Quoted message said:

Very timidly and trying not to start any arguments, but am I wrong
in thinking that I remember emphatic statements from other posters
that cables don't stretch?

Quoted message said:

[Chalo replied:]

Quoted message said:

I've seen the assertions myself. Whether the elasticity of a
19-strand cable is significant within the relevant range of tensions
I simply don't know. However, the additional stretch in a 7x7 rope
lay cable is easy to discern. I have assumed that this is due to
relative movement of the 49-strand cable's less compacted filaments.

Quoted message said:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/20729d1569cf30be

Quoted message said:

I expect that most of the cables mentioned in this thread will be 19
strand and not the 49 strand.

======================================================================

I see no explanation in that exchange of what stretches and how much.

There is no difference in conventional and super-flex cable except
flexibility (and cost). The higher strand count arises because the
flex cable is wound of cables instead of filaments, the purpose being
to increase flexibility. These were first seen on bar end shifters
because a stiff cable would interfere with steering, making no-hands
riding more difficult. You may recall that these shift cables also
used bare chromed steel housings to reduce housing stiffness.

Both types of cable are wound with no clearance between strands. That
means that one is no more compact than the other, the filaments having
to be close packed or the cable would act as a coil spring, something
for which a cable is not intended. Cables are helically wound to make
them constant length regardless of bend. Every strand must pass
through both the inside and outside of a bend so that all strands bear
the load without affecting cable length.

That is why STI constant length shift cable housing uses long helical
steel strands while conventional brake cable housings uses a coil.
Shift cable is sensitive to housing length because even small changes
can interfere with derailleur position, whereas brake force is
unaffected by it. Shifting being a position function and braking a
force function.

In sight of the experiments you have pursued in other respects I would
have expected you to hang a 100lb weight on a brake cable to show the
elongation a strong brake grasp can produce. Brake hand levers with
their 4:1 mechanical advantage can be grasped with more than 20lbs.

Jobst Brandt

[email hidden] wrote to C. Fogel:

- on brake cable stretch -

Quoted message said:

In sight of the experiments you have pursued in other respects I would
have expected you to hang a 100lb weight on a brake cable to show the
elongation a strong brake grasp can produce. Brake hand levers with
their 4:1 mechanical advantage can be grasped with more than 20lbs.

LOL!!

Ozark Bicycle said:

Werehatrack said:

RS said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear brake, that
stretches the least or is just generally the best type of cable?

It's a matter of opinion, but here's what I've found works for me:

I buy stainless mandrel-drawn wires (they're smoother on the outside
than plain wire, and don't rust) and use them with lined cable housing
from a manufacturer with a good reputation like Jag or Shimano. I
have not found that the teflon-coated inner wires work any better than
the plain ones, and to me they seem to raise the finger effort
required. Your experience may vary; others will have their own
opinions and advice.

One other point: Unless you are miles from home and there is no
alternative, I would recommend against buying any cable sold under the
Bell name, and/or any cable sold by a mass-market-oriented discount
sporting goods store such as Academy, Sports Authority, [censored]'s and the
like. They tend to be supplied with unlined housing that's made from
round wire, and their cable tends to be either plain or thinly plated
steel without the benefit of the smoothing mentioned above. I have
dramatically reduced the finger effort required in braking on several
bikes by just replacing brand-new Bell cables and housings with decent
ones from a more reputable supplier.

While lined housing and 'smoother' cables can make a diffference, an
equally important point is properly sizing the cable housing and
'dressing' the ends to eliminate burrs in the cable path. Cheaper cable
sets are usually found on cheaper bikes, which rarely receive the
needed attention to detail for smoothest operation. Given the proper
attention and a bit of grease, cheap cables can work quite well.

There's "inexpensive, serviceable" and then there's "cheap [censored]".
I've used generic cables and housings from the two nearby bike shops
with good results, but the visually similar stuff from Bell was an
entirely different matter. It was [censored]. Two of the bikes I
"upgraded" into decent brake function by merely replacing the
new-but-[censored] Bell cables had Bell housing that had been cleanly and
squarely cut and installed with good, centered ferrules...and they
still didn't work worth a damn. Swapping out to Shimano housing alone
reduced the pull effort, and replacing the wire as well produced a
brake that both operated at low effort and reliably returned to the
same rest opening dimensions. With the Bell cables, the brakes would
sometimes drag after being released, exactly as though there was a
burr or bent wire inside the housing somewhere...but the housing ends
on the Bell assemblies were cleanly cut, and the wires were as
straight when removed as they had been when they were put in. I think
that part of the problem was that the Bell wires were laterally
stiffer than the Jags, which caused them to be less compliant to the
cable routing path on bends.

After that rather educational afternoon's worth of work, I bought a
100ft box of Shimano brake housing and a big pack of Jagwire drawn
stainless cables. I'd rather spend a few bucks than put up with
something that won't work right, and a bulk buy of the good stuff got
me a better deal per each than I'd been getting at the lbs for
generics one at a time.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Werehatrack said:

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:21:10 -0800, RS <[email hidden]> wrote:

>Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear brake, that
>stretches the least or is just generally the best type of cable?

It's a matter of opinion, but here's what I've found works for me:

I buy stainless mandrel-drawn wires (they're smoother on the outside
than plain wire, and don't rust) and use them with lined cable housing
from a manufacturer with a good reputation like Jag or Shimano. I
have not found that the teflon-coated inner wires work any better than
the plain ones, and to me they seem to raise the finger effort
required. Your experience may vary; others will have their own
opinions and advice.

One other point: Unless you are miles from home and there is no
alternative, I would recommend against buying any cable sold under the
Bell name, and/or any cable sold by a mass-market-oriented discount
sporting goods store such as Academy, Sports Authority, [censored]'s and the
like. They tend to be supplied with unlined housing that's made from
round wire, and their cable tends to be either plain or thinly plated
steel without the benefit of the smoothing mentioned above. I have
dramatically reduced the finger effort required in braking on several
bikes by just replacing brand-new Bell cables and housings with decent
ones from a more reputable supplier.

While lined housing and 'smoother' cables can make a diffference, an
equally important point is properly sizing the cable housing and
'dressing' the ends to eliminate burrs in the cable path. Cheaper cable
sets are usually found on cheaper bikes, which rarely receive the
needed attention to detail for smoothest operation. Given the proper
attention and a bit of grease, cheap cables can work quite well.

There's "inexpensive, serviceable" and then there's "cheap [censored]".
I've used generic cables and housings from the two nearby bike shops
with good results, but the visually similar stuff from Bell was an
entirely different matter. It was [censored].

I've never (knowingly) workrd on a bike that was fitted with the Bell
cable/housing. I'm a bit surprised they would go out of their way to
package and sell stuff so completely at the bottom of the pile.

Quoted message said:

Two of the bikes I
"upgraded" into decent brake function by merely replacing the
new-but-[censored] Bell cables had Bell housing that had been cleanly and
squarely cut and installed with good, centered ferrules...and they
still didn't work worth a damn. Swapping out to Shimano housing alone
reduced the pull effort,

I wonder if there was a size mismatch, the Bell cables being a wee bit
too large for the Bell housing.

Quoted message said:

and replacing the wire as well produced a
brake that both operated at low effort and reliably returned to the
same rest opening dimensions. With the Bell cables, the brakes would
sometimes drag after being released, exactly as though there was a
burr or bent wire inside the housing somewhere...but the housing ends
on the Bell assemblies were cleanly cut, and the wires were as
straight when removed as they had been when they were put in. I think
that part of the problem was that the Bell wires were laterally
stiffer than the Jags, which caused them to be less compliant to the
cable routing path on bends.

That could well be a factor.

Quoted message said:

After that rather educational afternoon's worth of work, I bought a
100ft box of Shimano brake housing and a big pack of Jagwire drawn
stainless cables. I'd rather spend a few bucks than put up with
something that won't work right, and a bulk buy of the good stuff got
me a better deal per each than I'd been getting at the lbs for
generics one at a time.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

> Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear
> brake, that stretches the least or is just generally the best type
> of cable?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Elastic elongation of brake cables (stretch) is not enough to be
felt, but if you want to minimize that which there is, buy the
cable with the largest cross section. Stainless steel having the
same modulus of elasticity as other steel cables, and made by the
same process, makes no difference except being more expensive. A
brake cable should be lubricated anyway, which prevents rust.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Stretch, or more precisely flex, occurs in the caliper and brake
pad. and possibly a tiny amount in the hand lever. Cable housing
is made of a coiled steel wire that is in contact around the inside
of a cable bend and has full contact on straight runs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Neither the cable nor the housing yields in use so there is no
permanent "stretching". Some length change occurs when curves in a
brake cable change shape under load, but even that produces
negligible length change (cosine error).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you'll find that cable motion at the brake caliper is
essentially the same as at the hand lever. It is the caliper and
brake pads that deform and cause "sponge".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When installing a new cable, wipe grease on the cable with the
fingers before inserting it in the cable housing.

Quoted message said:

For what it's worth, at least one poster can tell the difference
between the stretch in different cable lays:

======================================================================

Quoted message said:

[Carl asked:]

Quoted message said:

So if the 19-strand and the 49-strand cables are roughly the same
thickness, then the 49-strand cables must use much thinner strands,
and it's the use of many thin stands that makes them more flexible
and presumably gives them a smoother texture?

Quoted message said:

[Chalo replied:]

Quoted message said:

That's why they are more supple, but their texture is coarser (since
they are essentially seven-strand cables made of wound filaments).

Quoted message said:

[Carl asked:]

Quoted message said:

Very timidly and trying not to start any arguments, but am I wrong
in thinking that I remember emphatic statements from other posters
that cables don't stretch?

Quoted message said:

[Chalo replied:]

Quoted message said:

I've seen the assertions myself. Whether the elasticity of a
19-strand cable is significant within the relevant range of tensions
I simply don't know. However, the additional stretch in a 7x7 rope
lay cable is easy to discern. I have assumed that this is due to
relative movement of the 49-strand cable's less compacted filaments.

Quoted message said:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/20729d1569cf30be

Quoted message said:

I expect that most of the cables mentioned in this thread will be 19
strand and not the 49 strand.

======================================================================

I see no explanation in that exchange of what stretches and how much.

There is no difference in conventional and super-flex cable except
flexibility (and cost). The higher strand count arises because the
flex cable is wound of cables instead of filaments, the purpose being
to increase flexibility. These were first seen on bar end shifters
because a stiff cable would interfere with steering, making no-hands
riding more difficult. You may recall that these shift cables also
used bare chromed steel housings to reduce housing stiffness.

Both types of cable are wound with no clearance between strands. That
means that one is no more compact than the other, the filaments having
to be close packed or the cable would act as a coil spring, something
for which a cable is not intended. Cables are helically wound to make
them constant length regardless of bend. Every strand must pass
through both the inside and outside of a bend so that all strands bear
the load without affecting cable length.

That is why STI constant length shift cable housing uses long helical
steel strands while conventional brake cable housings uses a coil.
Shift cable is sensitive to housing length because even small changes
can interfere with derailleur position, whereas brake force is
unaffected by it. Shifting being a position function and braking a
force function.

In sight of the experiments you have pursued in other respects I would
have expected you to hang a 100lb weight on a brake cable to show the
elongation a strong brake grasp can produce. Brake hand levers with
their 4:1 mechanical advantage can be grasped with more than 20lbs.

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

I shouldn't have expected you to bother to read the rest of the post
that I linked to, much less the entire thread, so here's the spoon
feeding that you seem to expect.

You see, there are calculators for cable stretch from cable companies.

Chalo took the trouble to look at the one that I mentioned. Below is
the link to the cable stretch calculator and Chalo's comments, which
are as clear and to the point as ever:

[Carl's link to cable stretch calculator:]

http://www.spaceagecontrol.com/calcstre.htm?MA%5B0%5D=50&MA%5B2%5D=60...
or http://tinyurl.com/yxc4m9

[Chalo's comment on using the calculator:]

"When I enter values that would be characteristic of a rear brake
cable on one of my bikes (1.6mm dia, 200 lbf, and 38" length, I get
stretch quantities of about a quarter inch, roughly one third of the
usable range of a conventional brake lever. This is apart from
compression in the cable housing and flex at the anchor points. It
makes sense in the context of my experience with 7x7 cables."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/20729d1569cf30be

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Robert Schiller said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear
brake, that stretches the least or is just generally the best type
of cable?

Elastic elongation of brake cables (stretch) is not enough to be felt,

rubbish

Quoted message said:

but if you want to minimize that which there is, buy the cable with
the largest cross section.

true, provided it's the area sum of the individual strands, not the
nominal cable section.

Quoted message said:

Stainless steel having the same modulus of
elasticity as other steel cables,

roughly.

Quoted message said:

and made by the same process,

true

Quoted message said:

makes
no difference except being more expensive.

rubbish. stainless brake cables, just as with stainless spokes, are
significantly more fatigue resistant. your ignorance may mean you don't
care, but personally, i feel a /lot/ more happy riding with stainless
brake cable...

Quoted message said:

A brake cable should be
lubricated anyway, which prevents rust.

unless it's running in a plastic lined outer, in which case, some types
of lubrication can interact with the liner and gum up the works
significantly. besides, if it /is/ an unlined outer and it's lubed with
oil, it can attract grit and create famous jobstian "grinding paste"
wearing the cable rapidly.

Quoted message said:

Stretch, or more precisely flex,

flex is bending. stretch is elongation. therefore, for the cable,
"more precisely" is stretch, not flex.

Quoted message said:

occurs in the caliper and brake pad.
and possibly a tiny amount in the hand lever.

that would be flex.

Quoted message said:

Cable housing is made
of a coiled steel wire that is in contact around the inside of a cable
bend and has full contact on straight runs.

so? that's not relevant unless you want to describe how bending affects
apparent elongation in bowden cable.

Quoted message said:

Neither the cable nor the housing yields in use so there is no
permanent "stretching". Some length change occurs when curves in a
brake cable change shape under load, but even that produces negligible
length change (cosine error).

rubbish. a significant portion of apparent stretch is directly
attributable to the de facto length change of the outer as it bends.
adjust a brake cable so the pads just touch the rim, then note how well
the brake locks the wheel with a tiny extra cable bend. this is a well
known phenomenon. how come you don't seem to have a grip on this
subject? [rhetorical]

Quoted message said:

I think you'll find that cable motion at the brake caliper is
essentially the same as at the hand lever. It is the caliper and
brake pads that deform and cause "sponge".

supposition is not fact. do the math for stretch under load, especially
for the much longer run of the rear brake cable.

Quoted message said:

When installing a new cable, wipe grease on the cable with the fingers
before inserting it in the cable housing.

not just any grease. the grease has to be inert with respect to the
liner or fouling problems occur if the liner dissolves. light silicone
usually does the trick.

RS said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear brake, that
stretches the least or is just generally the best type of cable?

thanks

yes, campy or shimano. the quality of the stainless wire they use is
excellent and much more fatigue resistant that cheaper brands. if you
want make your own observations in this respect, get a jewelers loupe
and look at the cable surface. cheaper cable [jagwire] can have nics
and scratches in the strand wires which will be fatigue nucleation
points. for the quality brands, strand wire surface finish relatively
smooth and will last longer accordingly. [not to be confused with "die
drawn" cable which is smoother to the naked eye. die drawn is ok if the
initial material quality was sufficient.]

apparent "stretch" observed over time is wear of the cable inner into
the outer or its lining. best use quality outer that is plastic lined
and that is pre-lubed with inert grease [shimano or campy]. wear rate
is very low for these brands as material quality is high.

Jobst Brandt said:

Robert Schiller writes:
...
Stretch, or more precisely flex, occurs in the caliper and brake pad.
and possibly a tiny amount in the hand lever. Cable housing is made
of a coiled steel wire that is in contact around the inside of a cable
bend and has full contact on straight runs.

The late 1990's SRAM ESP flat bar levers had enough flex in the lever
mount to be visible. Some bikes with chain-stay mounted cantilever
brakes also have significant (i.e. visible) flexure of the stays when
the rear brake is applied forcefully.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

on the mtb, i'm using avid wires: a drawn, coated inner wire in lined
housing reinforced by stiff longitudinal wire. you have to cut the stuff
with a dremel, and it absolutely does not compress. brakes are mech disc in
front and cartridge-bearing v's w/brace in back. very responsive. i like
it a lot, but the housing runs are fairly short. no gears.

on the road, campy baby. chorus ergo 8-speed brakes & drivetrain, operated
via campy wire. traditional wound cable housing runs the length of the
frame for rear brake = squishy. otherwise fine. avid next time.

$0.02,

dookie

"RS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear brake,
that
stretches the least or is just generally the best type of cable?

thanks

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Robert Schiller said:

Is there a brand or type of brake cable, especially for the rear
brake, that stretches the least or is just generally the best type
of cable?

Elastic elongation of brake cables (stretch) is not enough to be felt,
but if you want to minimize that which there is, buy the cable with
the largest cross section. Stainless steel having the same modulus of
elasticity as other steel cables, and made by the same process, makes
no difference except being more expensive. A brake cable should be
lubricated anyway, which prevents rust.

Stretch, or more precisely flex, occurs in the caliper and brake pad.
and possibly a tiny amount in the hand lever. Cable housing is made
of a coiled steel wire that is in contact around the inside of a cable
bend and has full contact on straight runs.

Neither the cable nor the housing yields in use so there is no
permanent "stretching". Some length change occurs when curves in a
brake cable change shape under load, but even that produces negligible
length change (cosine error).

I think you'll find that cable motion at the brake caliper is
essentially the same as at the hand lever. It is the caliper and
brake pads that deform and cause "sponge".

When installing a new cable, wipe grease on the cable with the fingers
before inserting it in the cable housing.

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

For what it's worth, at least one poster can tell the difference
between the stretch in different cable lays:

[Carl asked:]

So if the 19-strand and the 49-strand cables are roughly the same
thickness, then the 49-strand cables must use much thinner strands,
and it's the use of many thin stands that makes them more flexible and
presumably gives them a smoother texture?

[Chalo replied:]

That's why they are more supple, but their texture is coarser (since
they are essentially seven-strand cables made of wound filaments).

[Carl asked:]
Very timidly and trying not to start any arguments, but am I wrong in
thinking that I remember emphatic statements from other posters that
cables don't stretch?

[Chalo replied:]
I've seen the assertions myself. Whether the elasticity of a
19-strand cable is significant within the relevant range of tensions I
simply don't know. However, the additional stretch in a 7x7 rope lay
cable is easy to discern. I have assumed that this is due to relative
movement of the 49-strand cable's less compacted filaments.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/20729d1569cf30be

I expect that most of the cables mentioned in this thread will be 19
strand and not the 49 strand.

Cable stretch should be expunged from the lexicon.
Replace with elastic deformation, cable system seating,
and yield.

--
Michael Press

"dookie" <dookie@~obvious~dooksucks.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

on the mtb, i'm using avid wires: a drawn, coated inner wire in lined
housing reinforced by stiff longitudinal wire. you have to cut the stuff
with a dremel,

Interesting, I just installed some myself for some Avid brakes. My diagonal
cutters worked fine.

Greg