SST: Does less really equal more?

NM87710 said:

I may have an opportunity to train 15-20hrs/wk next season so I'm wondering how the extra time might help me(if any) vs. a "compacted SST model" of 10 hrs/wk.

Sooooo, if you had 15-20 "free-time' hrs available what training would you do??

1) Bet The Farm on SST: focused SST effort 10 hours week(building CTL), eliminate L2 junk miles, rest

2) Stick One Toe in the SST Pool: Use a SST model as above, add more L2 for a total of 15-20hrs and BIG CTL.

3) Not So Fast I'm Old Skool: Use 20hrs/wk to build a tradition 8-12week "base" then start adding L3/L4/L5?

4) Others?

Just checked my training log and my weekly time % (versus TSS which would be higher) of SST ranged from about 50 to a high of 88% with an average of 70% for the entire year.

I don't see why in a CTL build phase that you couldn't ride say 80% of your time in SST or 12-16 hrs/wk in your case. Unless that blows your weekly TSS load of course!

Just as a quick check ... say 14hrs at .85 avg. IF would yield about 1000 TSS points .. add say 100 for a couple of easy days and you're at 1100/wk. IME, that's okay for a build phase where you don't care about performance. That is, more is more.

Uh, I'm no coach or Ex. phys. of course so add several large grains of salt.🙂

rmur

NM87710 said:

I may have an opportunity to train 15-20hrs/wk next season so I'm wondering how the extra time might help me(if any) vs. a "compacted SST model" of 10 hrs/wk.

Sooooo, if you had 15-20 "free-time' hrs available what training would you do??

What type of event are you preparing for?

SolarEnergy said:

What type of event are you preparing for?

'07 road season Feb-Oct w/30 races - mostly stage and 1 day rr/tt

Very happy with my '06 results but just wondering if more training time is available how to best use it? Most folks need to get more(results) with less(training time). I'm interested in trying to get more with more.

Scaling a 10hr SST model upwards as rmur suggests sounds painful but "fun". Just might yield big returns🙂 ...if I didn't crack like an egg 😕

Also, I'm thinking about trying a SST training zone(Z3-10% to Z3+25%) on the PM to better track "SST" time. Or just use TSS since it already reflects the SST work? Thoughts?

Maybe I'm all whack with this stuff and out in left field(like the Tigers)...

NM87710 said:

'07 road season Feb-Oct w/30 races - mostly stage

Well you already have part of the answer here.

Where are you planning to do this training? Outside or inside?

What would be typical IF NP and TSS during your stage race events?

SolarEnergy said:

Well you already have part of the answer here.

Where are you planning to do this training? Outside or inside?

What would be typical IF NP and TSS during your stage race events?

Outside - warm climate

from last year's SR data:
IF ~1.03
NP ~250 (only weigh 62kg)
TSS ~150 (wide range 50-300)

Thanks

NM87710 said:

Sooooo, if you had 15-20 "free-time' hrs available what training would you do??

I'd find a mix of intensities which filled the amount of time I wanted to ride, and achieved the maximum TSS/wk that I could handle. I'd probably start with 15 hr and 800 TSS/wk (avg IF = .73), and slowly build both the hours and intensity until TSS/wk was approaching my discomfort zone. At 20 hrs and 1200 TSS/wk, you're still only looking at an IF of .77 -- pretty low for SST.

After that, I'd probably get bored and switch to 12-14 hrs/wk at an IF of .85, and use the rest of the time for napping, eating and otherwise maximizing my recovery.

So previously you didn't have any easy riding at all? Just intensity?

Thats a little overboard but I suppose when you only have 10 hours a week to train it seems fair enough.

When you look at how the pro's train nearly all believe in establishing a base and many hardly do any intensity at all whilst racing. They all know that endurance/ steady tempo rides are important to success.

With 20 hours to train you could easily ride 600km's a week...a lot of semi-pro's/ star amateurs get by on this amount of training sometimes less so you just need to be smart with your time. I suggest you set yourself a more refined goal, not just "all the races next year". Target a certain race you want do well in and where you want to hit your first "peak", train specifically for it. Then re assess the situation and do the same with another race during the season. Remember to race as much as possible even when your tired or you haven't peeked however because racing is the best training.
Just because you have 20 hours to train it doesn't mean you get another 10 hours to ride gut breaking intensity. You will just wear yourself out and you won't improve, talk to the good riders around your area and ask them how they train and prepare for your races.

Training smart is more important than just training hard.

I recommend you have 1 day off the bike or at an embarrasingly low power or heart rate for active recovery(1 hour).1- 2 days of LSD riding,(3-5 hours) this doesnt mean 100-120 watts it means a Long steady tempo ride so when you come home your legs are generally aching. This will help improve your endurance so you can maintain your power for longer in those long races. 1 race a week or a training situation that would be similar to a race (2-4 hours)( random efforts over all types of power zones with accelerations and decelerations everywhere). Now you have 3-4 days left to do what you would normally do on the bike, all the sessions above are probably what you didn't have time for before. If the workload is getting too much reduce intensity.

BTW dont do the same old stuff every week, actually PREPARE for the races. This may mean periodization of Base, SE, Lactic Work B4 you get into high level intensity. If you go flat out right now you will peak WAY too early and be burnt out by 2007 race season.

NM87710 said:

'07 road season Feb-Oct w/30 races - mostly stage and 1 day rr/tt

Very happy with my '06 results but just wondering if more training time is available how to best use it? Most folks need to get more(results) with less(training time). I'm interested in trying to get more with more.

Scaling a 10hr SST model upwards as rmur suggests sounds painful but "fun". Just might yield big returns🙂 ...if I didn't crack like an egg 😕

Also, I'm thinking about trying a SST training zone(Z3-10% to Z3+25%) on the PM to better track "SST" time. Or just use TSS since it already reflects the SST work? Thoughts?

Maybe I'm all whack with this stuff and out in left field(like the Tigers)...

FWIW, I track my SST time per ride/week/season pretty easily by checking (1) my time in L3, (2) my time in L4, (3) taking the avg. IF for each zone on that ride, and (4) calculating total TSS for the two zones.

Any L2 rides are purely when I'm fatigued and would be a minor portion of the overall SST.

I don't see much need to sashay slowly into this. Weighted avg. IF is around the 0.85 mark. That's sort of 4-5hr tempo pace and not particularly hard (say for three hours).

The last time I did a significant block o'SST was in August vacation where I had a ten-day window and simply rode high tempo for 9oo10 days for as long as I could stand 🙂. ATL hit 185 for me (PB) at that time but about two weeks later I started to hit season power PB's again after a dry spell in July/early August.

SST work doesn't have to be monolithic. After all, it's the average ride AP/NP power level that we're targetting - NOT trying to hold power right around .85-.90 for hours on end (THAT would be awfully boring and restrictive). I do a variety of routes - including lightly rolling terrain where I normally do my TT training, to routes including 10-20min long grades/drags, to routes including some Belgian style 2-4min hills.

There is absolutely no need to restrict your power to that 'zone' during training itself - just make sure you're always keeping the pressure on and I suspect you'll end up in the SST range most of the time. Just don't d_ck around in a large group with a lot drafting, coasting and ... L5/6 attacks on the hills.

Okay, I'm a little too enthusiastic I know but that's how I feel about it and approach it.

No doubt once you're within 6-8wks of the season that you need to start focussing on higher intensities and then considering tapering/recovery (TSB) in-season but before that ... JSST 🙂

rmur

This is an interesting topic for me, because I am coming in the opposite direction. I have been training in the traditional way, starting with an extensive base period which has high volume/low intensity, working to a peak period of high intensity/low volume but more specific to my event (road racing).

I have not tried SST and if I understand my coach correctly, I will be doing a lot more of that in the future. I will be interested to see the gains I achieve. My training until now has been very successful. I also have the ability to do 20 hour weeks on occassion and 15 hour weeks almost all the time.

I also love riding my bike for the fun of riding a bike, so I'm more than happy doing the hours.

NM87710 said:

I may have an opportunity to train 15-20hrs/wk next season so I'm wondering how the extra time might help me(if any) vs. a "compacted SST model" of 10 hrs/wk.

Sooooo, if you had 15-20 "free-time' hrs available what training would you do??

1) Bet The Farm on SST: focused SST effort 10 hours week(building CTL), eliminate L2 junk miles, rest

2) Stick One Toe in the SST Pool: Use a SST model as above, add more L2 for a total of 15-20hrs and BIG CTL.

3) Not So Fast I'm Old Skool: Use 20hrs/wk to build a tradition 8-12week "base" then start adding L3/L4/L5?

4) Others?

(2) Don't ramp CTL too fast/get ATL too high, add volume sensibly over time. Concentrate on SST. L2/L3, with more L2 the more time you have. Obviously once you get closer to racing, the mix changes...

NM87710 said:

I may have an opportunity to train 15-20hrs/wk next season so I'm wondering how the extra time might help me(if any) vs. a "compacted SST model" of 10 hrs/wk.

Sooooo, if you had 15-20 "free-time' hrs available what training would you do??

1) Bet The Farm on SST: focused SST effort 10 hours week(building CTL), eliminate L2 junk miles, rest

2) Stick One Toe in the SST Pool: Use a SST model as above, add more L2 for a total of 15-20hrs and BIG CTL.

3) Not So Fast I'm Old Skool: Use 20hrs/wk to build a tradition 8-12week "base" then start adding L3/L4/L5?

4) Others?

I'd take option #2, realizing that this will result in one of three things:

1) a clear improvement in performance ability,

2) no improvement in performance ability, or

3) a reduction in performance ability.

If the outcome is #1, fantastic, but even if the outcome is #2 or #3, you'll still benefit by learning more about your own personal optimal training load, specifically how much you can handle before you either plateau or break down. Note, however, that this is based on the assumption that you're in the sport for the long haul, and can afford to have a poor season if it results in better results down the road. Next year is not an Olympic year, though, so if you're going to roll the dice now's the time to do it...you don't want to employ an experimental training approach in 2008. (I'm really only half-joking here, as this is how the elite coaches and athletes think, and even if you're not aspiring to race at that level, it's still worth mentioning because it emphasizes the importance of long-term planning.)

Great thoughts and discussion.

Re: Andy - I'm confident I can acheive one of those three outcomes 😉. #2 Stick A Toe in the SST Pool just seems right for my training "style". No Olympics for me unless they have Sr. in front of them. I race Masters/P12 and probably have tried ALL training models over the last few decades. Plenty of experience and miles in my legs with good regional results the last few years as I've gotten back into racing. I switched to power 9mo ago and it's opened my eyes - wide open. Played with SST at the end of the season and liked the results. All this has me thinking about my '07 goals/plans and trying to kick my training/results up yet another notch. Great if it works. No big deal if it doesn't - there's always "next" year.

Re: rmur - Last year my avg IF was .70 and probably a bit lower in the winter(pre-PM) where I did a lot of L2 w/some L3. Now w/PM and SST it's looking like an L3 winter to steadily build CTL. "Just don't d_ck around in a large group with a lot drafting, coasting and ... L5/6 attacks on the hills." AMEN !!! 🙂

Also, don't the South/Central American riders that race in the US Feb-Sept. just take a short break before beginning the southern hemisphere race season? Thus, in effect training in SST year round. So setting weather aside(why let it dictate training models) would we be better off(results wise) training and racing year round w/strategic breaks - like year round schools??