105 vs Sora

oystonp said:

Can someone please explain the material differences between 105 and Sora. Apart from price of course.

The biggest jump in the component hierarchy goes tiagra-105
Sora and tiagra are very similar, 105, ultegra and Dura Ace are very similar.

105 is lighter
is 10 speed
has the hollowtech II crank, 105's is the stiffest out of the lot
is lighter
I'll assume it shifts better
is more durable (even than ultegra or DA)
has a nice finish (IMO)
Won't leave you wanting to upgrade
etc etc

It IS worth paying extra for a 105 equipped bike.

105 rocks. More money for beer and burritos. As Stewie OCR pointed out, it fits more closely with the upper end of the Shimano line. It is every bit as good, will last a good long while. Any weight penalty is negligible.

bobbyOCR said:

has the hollowtech II crank, 105's is the stiffest out of the lot

More so than Ultegra and Dura Ace? You can't be serious, right? :eek:

sogood said:

More so than Ultegra and Dura Ace? You can't be serious, right? :eek:

DA cranks have less material/foam injected to save weight.

Ultegra cranks have more material, but not as much as 105, making them stiffer than DA

105 cranks have the most material, making them by far the heaviest, but also the stiffest.

the difference is negligible, but it is great to say 'my cranks cost 1/3rd the price of your DA cranks, and they are STIFFER'. It doesn't matter around here in WA, it is 70% flat, unless you head inland, where the hills still aren't comparable to anywhere else in the world.

Oh, yeah, when a race comes down to me and another junior in a sprint, their full carbon TCR advance can't match the might of the ultra-stiff BMC+105 setup.

bobbyOCR said:

DA cranks have less material/foam injected to save weight.

Ultegra cranks have more material, but not as much as 105, making them stiffer than DA

105 cranks have the most material, making them by far the heaviest, but also the stiffest.

the difference is negligible, but it is great to say 'my cranks cost 1/3rd the price of your DA cranks, and they are STIFFER'. It doesn't matter around here in WA, it is 70% flat, unless you head inland, where the hills still aren't comparable to anywhere else in the world.

Oh, yeah, when a race comes down to me and another junior in a sprint, their full carbon TCR advance can't match the might of the ultra-stiff BMC+105 setup.

I appreciate the extra material and its effect on physical properties etc. But are there laboratory test data to back these up? I am just surprised that Shimano would trade stiffness (one of the key requirement in pro level components) for weight in its upper range. Looking at the Campag product line, it seemed that with higher groups, you are getting more stiffness for less weight with no short term trade-offs except for money, apart from some longer term durability for weight at the Record level.

But you are right. Smart shopping with a good engine would win any day! 😄

sogood said:

I appreciate the extra material and its effect on physical properties etc. But are there laboratory test data to back these up? I am just surprised that Shimano would trade stiffness (one of the key requirement in pro level components) for weight in its upper range. Looking at the Campag product line, it seemed that with higher groups, you are getting more stiffness for less weight with no short term trade-offs except for money, apart from some longer term durability for weight at the Record level.

But you are right. Smart shopping with a good engine would win any day! 😄

I know that Ultegra is laterally stiffer from a RIDE cycling review test, compared to Dura Ace. I also compared the later flex of 105 and ultegra with verneer calipers and a 20kg dumbell weight on the pedal spindle. 105 flexed 0.08mm less from an average of 5 tests each. The Ultegra flexed 0.89mm average, and the 105 flexed 0.81mm average. This is far from conclusive so don't trust it, but I see it as 105 is stiffer.

RIDE results: Ultegra: 0.91mm
Dura Ace: 1.05mm

The difference is negligible anyway.

(I still believe 105 is stiffer)

bobbyOCR said:

(I still believe 105 is stiffer)

Ok, I believe you then. Good data to stir my buddies with Dura Ace... 😄

Guy at work had a bit of an accident (ruined his frame totally) on his 105-equipped bike and the bike shop who removed the groupset could have said "you need new bits" because it was an insurance job, and they could have made money... but instead said "had it been dura-ace, we doubt it would have survived" and they put that 105 gear on his new Specialized....he has done a fwe thousand k's on it with no trouble...
Look, professionals get their stuff given to them free. Keen amateurs would usually have a training bike running 105 that they do all their hard k's on.
Good bike with Dua-Ace is reserved just for a race or a special bunch ride to show off to the others.

I have a Sora group on my bike, looking at an upgrade to 105 in the near future. Trust me, you do not want to save the money and get Sora on the long run. 105 is very similar to Ultegra and Dura Ace, biggest difference is that several components are made out of heavier material (stainless steel cassette, for example), thus making it heavier. Also other parts are heavier with more aluminum. From what I've read it's more bulkier and durable and heavier. But shifting and the 'feel' is about the same as the 'higher' groupsets (which is good).
I can't say that about my Sora equipped bike. It's a bi*ch to get the indexing right, I have to adjust it almost every time I go for a ride. And the front derailleur is (I find) impossible to set in a way that allows you to use the entire cassette. You'll get this awful rubbing and grinding alot.

Also, from experience, I'm never heard anyone complaint about their 105 group set. It just seems to be so trouble free and durable, which (I guess) is what you want when you don't race.

Strid said:

I have a Sora group on my bike, looking at an upgrade to 105 in the near future. Trust me, you do not want to save the money and get Sora on the long run. 105 is very similar to Ultegra and Dura Ace, biggest difference is that several components are made out of heavier material (stainless steel cassette, for example), thus making it heavier. Also other parts are heavier with more aluminum. From what I've read it's more bulkier and durable and heavier. But shifting and the 'feel' is about the same as the 'higher' groupsets (which is good).
I can't say that about my Sora equipped bike. It's a bi*ch to get the indexing right, I have to adjust it almost every time I go for a ride. And the front derailleur is (I find) impossible to set in a way that allows you to use the entire cassette. You'll get this awful rubbing and grinding alot.

Also, from experience, I'm never heard anyone complaint about their 105 group set. It just seems to be so trouble free and durable, which (I guess) is what you want when you don't race.

The funniest thing about Sora is the subtle jibe at campy with those thumb paddle shifting things. They put them on the lowest group to say 'that technology isn't worth puting anywhere else'. Campy's work so much better though.

bobbyOCR said:

The funniest thing about Sora is the subtle jibe at campy with those thumb paddle shifting things. They put them on the lowest group to say 'that technology isn't worth puting anywhere else'.

Haha, that one made me laugh!! 🙂 Maybe they're testing the market and how they will do over time, and perhaps introduce thumb shifting to the higher end groups as an options at some point?
Anyway, I think the thumb clicks are quite nice actually. It's so easy when your not riding the drops, and I don't do that more than perhaps 30% of the time. If it was an option for 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace, I would probably choose that over conventional shifting

But really, I just think it's comes down to habits and subjective preferences. In the end, it's just a matter of how you get your chain moved from one sprocket to another.

And the new SRAM group uses just one lever for braking, up and down shifting... Frigging amazing! :eek:

sogood said:

And the new SRAM group uses just one lever for braking, up and down shifting... Frigging amazing! :eek:

Yeah but they look ugly as hell.

Would probably upgrade the chainrings but 105 10speed stuff is excellent for the price . If it had another brand printed on it people would mistake it for Ultegra level.

caferacerwanabe said:

Would probably upgrade the chainrings but 105 10speed stuff is excellent for the price . If it had another brand printed on it people would mistake it for Ultegra level.

Wonder if you could get little Dura Ace decals to put over the 105 labels... 🙂

Strid said:

Wonder if you could get little Dura Ace decals to put over the 105 labels... 🙂

105 finish is closer to Dura Ace, so thats not a bad idea. Ultegra is light silvery plastic.