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Replacing retainer type ball bearings with loose

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01 / Original postReplacing retainer type ball bearings with looseNeptune · 14 Oct 2006 02 / This pagePosts 1–16Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #16Email address hidden · 23 Oct 2006

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Cycling Equipment
Published
14 October 2006
Last activity
23 October 2006
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Neptune
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  1. Original post
    Neptune
    Archived post
    #1

    This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo Tipo hub,
    that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can fit 11 loose balls
    leaving a little slack. Any advantages or disadvantages? It would seem that
    the load carrying ability would be increased, but maybe it's negligible.
    Anyone have an opinion? Thanks
    Neptune

    Report
  2. Chris
    Archived post
    #2

    In the "old" days that was SOP to replace with no retainer and more balls.
    Rule I think is to fill the race with balls and remove one.

    "Neptune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo Tipo hub,
    that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can fit 11 loose balls
    leaving a little slack. Any advantages or disadvantages? It would seem
    that
    the load carrying ability would be increased, but maybe it's negligible.
    Anyone have an opinion? Thanks
    Neptune

    Report
  3. Richard
    Archived post
    #3

    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In the "old" days that was SOP to replace with no retainer and more balls.
    Rule I think is to fill the race with balls and remove one.

    "Neptune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo Tipo


    hub,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can fit 11 loose


    balls

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    leaving a little slack. Any advantages or disadvantages? It would seem
    that
    the load carrying ability would be increased, but maybe it's negligible.
    Anyone have an opinion? Thanks
    Neptune

    Why remove one?

    Report
  4. Qui si parla Campagnolo
    Archived post
    #4
    Richard said:

    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In the "old" days that was SOP to replace with no retainer and more balls.
    Rule I think is to fill the race with balls and remove one.

    "Neptune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo Tipo


    hub,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can fit 11 loose


    balls

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    leaving a little slack. Any advantages or disadvantages? It would seem
    that
    the load carrying ability would be increased, but maybe it's negligible.
    Anyone have an opinion? Thanks
    Neptune

    Why remove one?

    You don't want them to touch, they will kill each other. When you put
    in the axle and adjust, they travel 'up' the cup a bit and it'll be too
    tight in there with 12 balls.

    Report
  5. Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
    Archived post
    #5
    Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:


    You don't want them [ball bearings] to touch, they will kill each other...

    By fretting, spalling or brinnelling?

    --
    Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

    Report
  6. Qui si parla Campagnolo
    Archived post
    #6
    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:
    Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:


    You don't want them [ball bearings] to touch, they will kill each other...

    By fretting, spalling or brinnelling?

    --
    Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

    yes, by gum.....

    Report
  7. jim beam
    Archived post
    #7
    Neptune said:

    This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo Tipo hub,
    that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can fit 11 loose balls
    leaving a little slack. Any advantages or disadvantages? It would seem that
    the load carrying ability would be increased, but maybe it's negligible.
    Anyone have an opinion? Thanks
    Neptune


    it's fine - go ahead and do it provided you don't over-fill. as you
    suppose, there is a small theoretical improvement in load capacity and
    it's common for different manufacturers to use caged and uncaged
    configurations. caged sure is a lot more convenient for manufacturing.

    Report
  8. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #8
    Richard said:

    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In the "old" days that was SOP to replace with no retainer and more balls.
    Rule I think is to fill the race with balls and remove one.

    "Neptune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo Tipo


    hub,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can fit 11 loose


    balls

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    leaving a little slack. Any advantages or disadvantages? It would seem
    that
    the load carrying ability would be increased, but maybe it's negligible.
    Anyone have an opinion? Thanks
    Neptune

    Why remove one?

    He meant to type "remove the cage and ADD one additional ball bearing".

    What the original question asker wrote does not make sense. There is
    no way you can remove the cage and add four extra ball bearings of the
    same size. There is not that much extra room. Maybe he is replacing
    the 7 1/4" bearings with 11 3/16" bearings. Or maybe he mistyped and
    his rear hub with the cage has 9 1/4" bearings in the cage and he can
    fit 11 1/4" bearings by making them rub against each other. That is
    probably true. 7 bearings on the rear hub seems a bit too few.

    Report
  9. Brian Huntley
    Archived post
    #9
    Quoted message said:

    He meant to type "remove the cage and ADD one additional ball bearing".

    No, he said, more or less, "remove the cage, add as many bearings as
    the race will hold, then remove one."

    Cages can be constructed so as to use as few as 1/2 the full capacity
    of the cage, but most I've seen seem to be about 3/4ths. Only adding
    one might be the case in some circumstances, but not always.

    Oh, and you don't actually "add" any - you replace them all, using more
    than had been there with the cage. Mixing old and new bearings isn't a
    good idea unless you're forced to on the side of the Dawson highway or
    something.

    Report
  10. Richard
    Archived post
    #10

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Richard said:

    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In the "old" days that was SOP to replace with no retainer and more


    balls.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Rule I think is to fill the race with balls and remove one.

    "Neptune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo Tipo


    hub,

    Quoted message said:

    > that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can fit 11 loose


    balls

    Quoted message said:

    > leaving a little slack. Any advantages or disadvantages? It would


    seem

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > that
    > the load carrying ability would be increased, but maybe it's


    negligible.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Anyone have an opinion? Thanks
    > Neptune
    >
    >

    Why remove one?

    You don't want them to touch, they will kill each other. When you put
    in the axle and adjust, they travel 'up' the cup a bit and it'll be too
    tight in there with 12 balls.

    Loose balls are going to touch anyway. Having to many is an other problem. I
    don't remember how many I have in mine, but I have no problems with it.

    Report
  11. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #11
    Peter Chisholm said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo
    > Tipo hub, that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can
    > fit 11 loose balls leaving a little slack. Any advantages or
    > disadvantages? It would seem that the load carrying ability would
    > be increased, but maybe it's negligible. Anyone have an opinion?
    > Thanks Neptune

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In the "old" days that was SOP to replace with no retainer and
    more balls. Rule I think is to fill the race with balls and
    remove one.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Why remove one?

    Quoted message said:

    You don't want them to touch, they will kill each other. When you
    put in the axle and adjust, they travel 'up' the cup a bit and it'll
    be too tight in there with 12 balls.

    I think you got that backward. As they are moved apart as the cone
    spreads them and gain more clearance as the move up the cup. Touching
    doesn't hurt, it is sliding under pressure that might cause drag. If
    there is insufficient clearance for that number of balls, they will
    lock up when adjusting the cones, so that takes care of itself.

    Good bearings use a cage only for assembly purposes while cheap ones
    save cost by fewer balls and easy assembly.

    Jobst Brandt

    Report
  12. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #12
    Russell Seaton1 said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo
    > Tipo hub, that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can
    > fit 11 loose balls leaving a little slack. Any advantages or
    > disadvantages? It would seem that the load carrying ability
    > would be increased, but maybe it's negligible.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In the "old" days that was SOP to replace with no retainer and
    more balls. Rule I think is to fill the race with balls and
    remove one.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Why remove one?

    Quoted message said:

    He meant to type "remove the cage and ADD one additional ball bearing".

    Quoted message said:

    What the original question asker wrote does not make sense. There
    is no way you can remove the cage and add four extra ball bearings
    of the same size. There is not that much extra room. Maybe he is
    replacing the 7 1/4" bearings with 11 3/16" bearings. Or maybe he
    mistyped and his rear hub with the cage has 9 1/4" bearings in the
    cage and he can fit 11 1/4" bearings by making them rub against each
    other. That is probably true. 7 bearings on the rear hub seems a
    bit too few.

    You have never seen real cheap hubs, I take it. They use a cage with
    widely spaced balls, (as few as five). I also don't think Campagnolo
    ever made hubs with that widely spaced balls but there are such hubs
    on the market.

    Jobst Brandt

    Report
  13. Michael Press
    Archived post
    #13

    In article
    <[email hidden]>
    ,
    "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"

    Quoted message said:
    Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:


    You don't want them [ball bearings] to touch, they will kill each other...

    By fretting, spalling or brinnelling?

    Yes.

    --
    Michael Press

    Report
  14. Donald Gillies
    Archived post
    #14

    The rule is to _overfill_ the bearing race and then to remove one ball
    bearing. At least, this is the rule with headsets.

    - Don Gillies
    San Diego, CA

    Report
  15. A Muzi
    Archived post
    #15
    Quoted message said:

    "Neptune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo Tipo hub,
    that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can fit 11 loose balls
    leaving a little slack. Any advantages or disadvantages? It would seem
    that
    the load carrying ability would be increased, but maybe it's negligible.
    Anyone have an opinion? Thanks
    Neptune


    Chris said:

    In the "old" days that was SOP to replace with no retainer and more balls.
    Rule I think is to fill the race with balls and remove one.

    Your hub left Campagnolo with nine 1/4" balls on each side.

    The retainer is from some other application. Campagnolo hubs did not use
    retainers before the 2000 model year

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    Report
  16. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #16

    On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:55:54 -0500, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Neptune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This may have been discussed before. On an old rear Campy Nuovo Tipo hub,
    that has 1/4 in. 7 ball retainer type bearings, I can fit 11 loose balls
    leaving a little slack. Any advantages or disadvantages? It would seem
    that
    the load carrying ability would be increased, but maybe it's negligible.
    Anyone have an opinion? Thanks
    Neptune


    Chris said:

    In the "old" days that was SOP to replace with no retainer and more balls.
    Rule I think is to fill the race with balls and remove one.

    Your hub left Campagnolo with nine 1/4" balls on each side.

    The retainer is from some other application. Campagnolo hubs did not use
    retainers before the 2000 model year

    Dear Andrew,

    Nice to see you again.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Report

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