Cycling Training · Public discussion

Spinning intensity during winter

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Cycling Training
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18 October 2006
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DZ-015
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  1. Hello everyone,

    I completed my last race of the season on Sunday and am planning on winding down for 6 - 8 weeks to allow my body to repair and generally rest. Winter here in the UK for cyclists means October - March and I'll go off my head if I don't exercise.

    I've joined a gym and will be doing Yoga once a week and spin classes twice a week and the odd low-intensity base ride on the bike on Saturday or Sunday.

    My question is about spin classes. You can easily average 80 - 90% MHR during one of these classes (if you're really trying 😉) which I suspect may be too much. Can anyone suggest an intensity which will help me manage my weight, but not result in over-training? Should I do a high intensity (80 - 90%) one night and a recovery another night?

    I'm 38 years old, 147 pounds and race fit.

    Thanks.

  2. DZ-015 said:

    Hello everyone,

    I completed my last race of the season on Sunday and am planning on winding down for 6 - 8 weeks to allow my body to repair and generally rest. Winter here in the UK for cyclists means October - March and I'll go off my head if I don't exercise.

    I've joined a gym and will be doing Yoga once a week and spin classes twice a week and the odd low-intensity base ride on the bike on Saturday or Sunday.

    My question is about spin classes. You can easily average 80 - 90% MHR during one of these classes (if you're really trying 😉) which I suspect may be too much. Can anyone suggest an intensity which will help me manage my weight, but not result in over-training? Should I do a high intensity (80 - 90%) one night and a recovery another night?

    I'm 38 years old, 147 pounds and race fit.

    Thanks.

    You can average such a high % of HRmax, due to inefficient cooling/temperature and the high cadences used. It doesn't necessarily mean that the actual intensity is high.

    To lose weight you should exercise at the *highest* intensity you can manage for the duration, frequency and volume of training you do, as a negative energy expenditure results in a decrease in fat mass.

    Perhaps, more importantly, if you are planning to race next year, you should be designing your training around other variables, such as increased TTpower, increased MAP, and increased peak power.

    There's no real reason to always exercise at a low intensity over the winter. This type of base training has no basis in fact.

    ric

  3. [QUOTE=ric_stern/RST There's no real reason to always exercise at a low intensity over the winter. This type of base training has no basis in fact. ric[/QUOTE]
    I just planned my winter training from Nov 1 to end of year. As Ric says, due to time pressures and suspicion of "base training" I am looking at a 3 week block of training then a weeks rest per month. In each week I will have 3/4 x 90 minute sessions on the trainer - with a mix of 30/40 second intervals, 5 minute intervals, 10 second sprint intervals and recovery rides (all on seperate evenings). On the weekends I will try and get out for some long tempo rides if the weather permits. Also throw in some weight training 2x a week.

    I believe in 3 week blocks of training with a weeks rest then repeated. I also plan to gradually raise the intensity during each training block, and for the next one. I can do this with the power reading on my Taxc flow, which although not accurate, does give me an idea of how I am progressing.

    Another point Ric raised that interested me is the comment about losing weight by exercising at the *highest* intensity possible for as long as can be sustained. I was of the understanding that there is a "fat burning zone" at lower HR intensity that is more efficient for losing weight? My concern is to try and avoid weight loss, and I had always assumed that upping the intensity but reducing the overall volume ensured this. I'm sure I'm wrong.....

  4. [quote="BullGod"]

    ric_stern/RST There's no real reason to always exercise at a low intensity over the winter. This type of base training has no basis in fact. ric[/QUOTE said:


    I just planned my winter training from Nov 1 to end of year. As Ric says, due to time pressures and suspicion of "base training" I am looking at a 3 week block of training then a weeks rest per month. In each week I will have 3/4 x 90 minute sessions on the trainer - with a mix of 30/40 second intervals, 5 minute intervals, 10 second sprint intervals and recovery rides (all on seperate evenings). On the weekends I will try and get out for some long tempo rides if the weather permits. Also throw in some weight training 2x a week.



    out of curiousity, what's the purpose the weights?

    Quoted post said:


    I believe in 3 week blocks of training with a weeks rest then repeated. I also plan to gradually raise the intensity during each training block, and for the next one. I can do this with the power reading on my Taxc flow, which although not accurate, does give me an idea of how I am progressing.



    there's no evidence to suggest that you need a 3 on 1 off week idea (but if it works for you, that's cool).

    Quoted post said:


    Another point Ric raised that interested me is the comment about losing weight by exercising at the *highest* intensity possible for as long as can be sustained. I was of the understanding that there is a "fat burning zone" at lower HR intensity that is more efficient for losing weight? My concern is to try and avoid weight loss, and I had always assumed that upping the intensity but reducing the overall volume ensured this. I'm sure I'm wrong.....



    there is a common misnomer that there is a "fat burning zone". That is, fat oxidation occurs greatest at low(est) intensity, as at higher or highest intensity it carbohydrate oxidation that occurs.

    This latter point, has led some people to conclude, that exercising at low intensity where fat oxidation is greatest is best for weight loss.

    however, under the laws of thermodynamics, weight loss occurs when there is a negative energy balance. In other words you expend more energy than you consume. Where you expend it (i.e., the substrate mix) is of little importance in the grand scheme of things.

    however, as exercise intensity increases (i.e., power output goes up) we expend more energy than at lower intensity. That's because work done is equal to power * duration. So, by exercising harder more energy is 'burnt' and greater weight loss can occur.

    obviously, there is some cross over point, though. That is, if you go out and cane it for a kilometre until you puke, you might go home and put your feet up for the day absolutely shattered, but having only completed say 10-mins of exercise. On the other hand, you could out for a gentle spin for 5 hrs and expend more (total) energy than the 1k effort (although per unit time it is less).

    of course, though, in the above if you ride at a hard, but sustainable effort for 5 hrs you'll expend more energy than the 5 hrs gentle ride.

    one of the reasons, why the "fat burning" myth still perpetuates is simply, that at the low intensity it is easier to get untrained people involved in exercise and get weight loss to occur (rather than throwing them into some regime that is 'brutal'😉.

    this is where having a power meter can be very handy to assess total work done, and what, if any effect it'll have on weight management

    ric

  5. [quote="ric_stern/RST"]out of curiousity, what's the purpose the weights?

    I lack sprint power. My max wattage is no more than 900 and with Holland being so flat and windy it's really hard to get anywhere in racing if you can't sprint. I was assuming that strengthening the legs and building muscle mass can help develop sprint power?



    there's no evidence to suggest that you need a 3 on 1 off week idea (but if it works for you, that's cool).

    You don't think that one easy / rest week a month is a bad idea though right?
    It's more about refreshing after the boredom and grind of the trainer and having a week here and there to relax and have some fun. Last winter I rode really hard on the trainer 4/5 days a week for 3 months straight and stressed my liver out, so I want to add some serious rest to avoid the same problem. I was also assuming that gradually increasing the intensity until overload, then resting and repeating would build fitness?


    one of the reasons, why the "fat burning" myth still perpetuates is simply, that at the low intensity it is easier to get untrained people involved in exercise and get weight loss to occur (rather than throwing them into some regime that is 'brutal'😉.

    this is where having a power meter can be very handy to assess total work done, and what, if any effect it'll have on weight management

    so is this officially a myth? I had better set some people straight on that.....

  6. [quote="BullGod"]

    ric_stern/RST said:

    out of curiousity, what's the purpose the weights?

    I lack sprint power. My max wattage is no more than 900 and with Holland being so flat and windy it's really hard to get anywhere in racing if you can't sprint. I was assuming that strengthening the legs and building muscle mass can help develop sprint power?



    so can sprinting (note you can't do this indoors on your trainer, must be outside)

    Quoted post said:


    there's no evidence to suggest that you need a 3 on 1 off week idea (but if it works for you, that's cool).

    You don't think that one easy / rest week a month is a bad idea though right?
    It's more about refreshing after the boredom and grind of the trainer and having a week here and there to relax and have some fun. Last winter I rode really hard on the trainer 4/5 days a week for 3 months straight and stressed my liver out, so I want to add some serious rest to avoid the same problem. I was also assuming that gradually increasing the intensity until overload, then resting and repeating would build fitness?



    it's maybe not a bad idea, it just may not be optimal

    Quoted post said:


    one of the reasons, why the "fat burning" myth still perpetuates is simply, that at the low intensity it is easier to get untrained people involved in exercise and get weight loss to occur (rather than throwing them into some regime that is 'brutal'😉.

    this is where having a power meter can be very handy to assess total work done, and what, if any effect it'll have on weight management

    so is this officially a myth? I had better set some people straight on that.....



    it's a myth

    ric

  7. BullGod said:

    so is this officially a myth? I had better set some people straight on that.....


    I don't think the "fat burning zone" is officially a myth. The 'zone' is where the % of fat oxidation *during exercise* is greatest, compared to carb or glycogen utilization.

    The myth is a misinterpretation of the above, to mean that you won't lose body fat except through fat oxidation during exercise. In reality, it's overall energy/calorie deficit which determines weight loss (even body fat loss), rather than simply fat burned during exercise. More calories are burned *per hour* at higher intensities, but the exercise duration may also be shorter at that level. This leads us all back to Ric's comment about using the highest sustainable intensity, duration, etc. etc. IOW, burn as many calories possible. 🙂

  8. [quote="ric_stern/RST"]so can sprinting (note you can't do this indoors on your trainer, must be outside)

    When I say "sprint" I really mean 10 second efforts at say 650w that simulate coming out of corners on crits and chasing a wheel in a RR. I can manage these on the trainer to a reasonable extent. "Pure sprinting" at massive power level I'm not so bothered about as I suck at it, and woud rather keep out the way of those bunch gallops.

    it's maybe not a bad idea, it just may not be optimal

    so what is optimal? Should there be hard weeks and easy weeks? any sort of advised ratio of easy - hard? Surely not hard training every week all winter?

    it's a myth

    ric

  9. BullGod said:


    so what is optimal? Should there be hard weeks and easy weeks? any sort of advised ratio of easy - hard? Surely not hard training every week all winter?

    what is optimal will be different for every person, which is one reason why coaching is individualised. If you're interested in coaching please give me a shout

    ric

  10. [quote="ric_stern/RST"]what is optimal will be different for every person, which is one reason why coaching is individualised. If you're interested in coaching please give me a shout

    Ric - are you [email hidden] or [email hidden]

    ?

  11. [quote="BullGod"]

    ric_stern/RST said:

    what is optimal will be different for every person, which is one reason why coaching is individualised. If you're interested in coaching please give me a shout

    Ric - are you [email hidden] or [email hidden]

    ?




    the latter. have i boobed and made a spelling error? 😠 🙁

  12. yeah - the contact link on your site has a typo in your address. I guess anybody clicking on "contact" and writing to you wouldn't have gotten through....

  13. BullGod said:

    yeah - the contact link on your site has a typo in your address. I guess anybody clicking on "contact" and writing to you wouldn't have gotten through....

    :eek: can you point me to the offender, as i can't see it.

    cheers
    ric

  14. frenchyge said:

    I don't think the "fat burning zone" is officially a myth. The 'zone' is where the % of fat oxidation *during exercise* is greatest, compared to carb or glycogen utilization.

    The myth is a misinterpretation of the above, to mean that you won't lose body fat except through fat oxidation during exercise. In reality, it's overall energy/calorie deficit which determines weight loss (even body fat loss), rather than simply fat burned during exercise. More calories are burned *per hour* at higher intensities, but the exercise duration may also be shorter at that level. This leads us all back to Ric's comment about using the highest sustainable intensity, duration, etc. etc. IOW, burn as many calories possible. 🙂

    A while ago I came across a study that explained the "fat-burning" process. Basically, at lower intensities a greater percentage of fuel used comes from fat. As exercise intensity increases, the percentage of fat used goes down, but total fat used goes up as well as total calories used, which would translate into greater weight loss.

    Personally, my only problem with this is that when I exercise at very high intensity levels my hunger cravings are incredibly high and I want to eat everything in sight. During those training periods I find it impossible to restrict calories. During the off-season when I emphasize LSD riding with limited intense efforts I can restrict calories much more easily and drop 10+ lbs. in a couple of months without much problem.

    Bob

  15. Thanks for all the replies. I guess I can continue the midweek spinning and vary my Saturday/Sunday 'base' rides with a bit of tempo work and light sprinting. The old 'low intensity all winter' thing is starting to gather dust.

    Now, the Yoga is something else - I feel like I've been run over by Eddy Merckx in a tractor...

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