public school bikes

My home is in a fairly quiet, suburban neighborhood, within a 3-minute walk to the local elementary
school. When my kids were growing up here, they walked or rode their bikes to school every day. Now,
the school district has made it "illegal" for kids to get to school, no matter how close they live,
on foot or by bike. Instead, they all line up at the corner each morning, with the school virtually
in sight, waiting for a huge bus to take them across the street.

If a child shows up on foot or on a bicycle, his/her parents are called immediately.

Honestly, I can understand why it has to be this way. This neighborhood is now loaded with SUVs,
carelessly guided by hassled Moms with their cell phones glued to their ears. There's a major
accident waiting to happen, even with the kids taking the bus to school. I just can't imagine the
chaos if you added kids on bikes or on foot to the morning mix in our town.

I applaud your idea, but I can't see it working...at least not here in suburban New York.

Low-Impact Rides in the NY/LI region www.geocities.com/NYRides "Adelantado" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.

The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.

You could find a bike cage big enough or strong enough to keep all the bikes from being stolen. Bike
security is a big issue... and kids security is a very big issue.

I wouldn't work in most cities.

hth

"Adelantado" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.

In article <[email hidden]>, NYRides

Quoted message said:

My home is in a fairly quiet, suburban neighborhood, within a 3-minute walk to the local elementary
school. When my kids were growing up here, they walked or rode their bikes to school every day.
Now, the school district has made it "illegal" for kids to get to school, no matter how close they
live, on foot or by bike. Instead, they all line up at the corner each morning, with the school
virtually in sight, waiting for a huge bus to take them across the street.

If a child shows up on foot or on a bicycle, his/her parents are called immediately.

Honestly, I can understand why it has to be this way. This neighborhood is now loaded with SUVs,
carelessly guided by hassled Moms with their cell phones glued to their ears. There's a major
accident waiting to happen, even with the kids taking the bus to school. I just can't imagine the
chaos if you added kids on bikes or on foot to the morning mix in our town.

Sounds like the kids weren't the ones that were added to the mix!

What a sad story.--Bruce F.

In article <[email hidden]>, Adelantado

Quoted message said:

Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.

Boy, the lawyers would love you. They would sue you for each fall, for dirty pants, for fingers
caught in spokes, for the frostbiet in the winter, for the out-of-shape students being humiliated
because they can't ride well...

-Pete
--
--
LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Did you know that 90% of North Americans cannot taste the difference between
fried dog and fried cat?

Golightly F. said:

You could find a bike cage big enough or strong enough to keep all the bikes from being stolen.
Bike security is a big issue... and kids security is a very big issue.

I wouldn't work in most cities.

hth

I used to ride to school from about year 4. Both of my schools had large locked bike parking with
room for about 100 bikes. This was only...[censored]...14 years ago. Damn I am getting old. I never had
any trouble with cars or pedestrians this was in a country town of about 18,000 people.
--
Cheers Damian Harvey

Goths: If I looked like that I'd be depressed too.

Adelantado wrote: ...

Quoted message said:

The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.

Since most school teachers and administrators work for local school districts, national security
hardly obtains. Standard excuses apply: too far, too early, mess up good clothes, scared of
traffic. --Karen M. who knows of a school with more than a couple teachers with 50-mile commutes

[email hidden] (Adelantado) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.

The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.

Where do you live ? I don't feel safe walking around by myself. I certainly wouldn't send my
child out alone.

Too many violent criminals and sexual predators waiting for prey. Especially near schools.

There have even been recent cases of attacks inside school buildings.

And I live in a "good are," in a city which used to be noted for its safety. :-(

Funny you mention "national security." That term has made a really convenient excuse for almost
anyone to throw out for almost any reason.

There's a bike path extension project that will be passing through my town in the next year. I'm
working very hard with the DOT to plan a spur that will make the path a lot safer for the local
kids. It involves passing through some abandoned state property that happens to run alongside a
water district facility.

A few months ago, I spent about an hour and a half wandering around the grounds of this facility
taking photos and looking for someone to talk to. Not a sole was in site and I was able to wander
freely with my camera. Recently, when the DOT sent its proposal to the water district to use this
right-of-way for the bike path spur, the water district's lawyer sent back an emphatic "NO," with
the excuse that a bike path through the property would pose a "security risk."

Now it looks as if our kids will have to ride their bikes along a very busy roadway just to be able
to access this path. Well, at least none of those eight year olds will be able to compromise our
water supply now.
--
Low-Impact Rides in the NY/LI region www.geocities.com/NYRides "Karen M." <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Adelantado wrote: ...

Quoted message said:

The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to
school as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking
to/from work.

Since most school teachers and administrators work for local school districts, national
security hardly obtains. Standard excuses apply: too far, too early, mess up good clothes,
scared of traffic. --Karen M. who knows of a school with more than a couple teachers with
50-mile commutes

Damian Harvey <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I used to ride to school from about year 4. Both of my schools had large locked bike parking with
room for about 100 bikes. This was only...[censored]...14 years ago. Damn I am getting old. I never had
any trouble with cars or pedestrians this was in a country town of about 18,000 people.

Oz might not be like the rest of the planet. If there are regularly cyclists on the road, then cars
tend to know how to react. As the thread is (presumably) about the USA, there are very few cyclists
on the road in most communities.

In Northern Virginia, cars would react to me on the road as if I were from Mars. They didn't know
what to do--whether to pass, how to react to a hand signal, how the sequence of yields went, etc.
Looking out my window, I'd be surprised if I saw a dozen cyclists a week.

In Central London, there are a lot more cyclists. Even though the volume of vehicular traffic is
much higher, I don't find riding here any worse than in Virginia. It's made significantly easier by
the fact that cars seem to know I'm there, and know how to react to me. Best marks in this respect
go to people who drive for a living--black cabs, buses, and even White Van Men.

As to solutions to break this vicious cycle--lack of cyclists, motorist ignorance, potential cyclist
intimidation, lack of cyclists--I can only suggest more and more visible police traffic enforcement,
especially near schools.

-Luigi

Adelantado said:

Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.

1) Not all children know how to ride a bicycle nor can ride a bicycle. SO you still need the buses.

2) Parents would never go for this.

3) A lot of kids already have bikes and very few of them today use them to go to school.

4) The school district gets sued the first accident that happens to a child riding to/from school.
The legal cost alone blocks this idea. Just one multi-million lawsuit will bankrupt a lot of
school districts.

5) If the school is accessible only via busy streets do you want 300 kids riding on the side of US
999 at one time?

6) Even though the odds of this are very rare, people are a lot more concerned these days about
perverts, terrorist and such going after their kids.

When I went to school in the 70s, a lot of kids rode their bikes including me on my banana seat. I
have no problem with children whose parents allow them to ride bikes to school, in fact I wish more
parents would do it today. Today, the bike racks sit empty at a lot of schools. When my Dad went to
school, they walked the 3 miles each way to go to school. How things have changed!!!

Quoted message said:

The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.

No one is stopping them at all from biking to work, almost all of them have the legal right to do
this. Forcing bicycling on people isn't going to do a thing except create a more hostile environment
for other bicyclist.

give kids bikes? you kidding? kids have bikes but aren't allowed to ride them.

I live 2 blocks from a school and they don't even have a bike rack.

My son started at the school this year and when I mentioned to the teacher that he wanted to ride
his bike, the teacher responded with, "oh we can't allow that". Like I was bad parent for
suggesting it.

"Adelantado" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.

The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.

In article said:

2) Parents would never go for this.

There are still some that do (I know some around here, and certainly my dad encouraged me to do so
when I was a kid, and I'm glad he did). Given some motivation and education, I think a lot more
parents would encourage it.

Quoted message said:

4) The school district gets sued the first accident that happens to a child riding to/from school.
The legal cost alone blocks this idea. Just one multi-million lawsuit will bankrupt a lot of
school districts.

Do you have any evidence of this? What would be the legal rationale for such a suit? Do you have any
examples of such suits?

Quoted message said:

5) If the school is accessible only via busy streets do you want 300 kids riding on the side of US
999 at one time?

Definitely! What's the problem? If they're replacing 300 cars on US 999, then they're probably using
*less* road capacity. (Bicyclists' lower maximum speed is compensated for by their smaller footprint
on the road, and the only studies of this question that I've seen say that the net effect is an
increase of throughput given the same width of pavement.) If US 999 has more than 1 lane in each
direction (or shareably wide lanes), then the remaining cars may actually end up going faster due to
reduced congestion.

Quoted message said:

6) Even though the odds of this are very rare, people are a lot more concerned these days about
perverts, terrorist and such going after their kids.

You'd think this could be countered to some degree by education. The odds are, as you say, very
small; I find it hard to imagine the risk of a kid being abducted while walking to school is as
great as the increased risk of injury cased by additional motor traffic around schools at pick-up
and drop-off time.

--Bruce F.

In article said:

give kids bikes? you kidding? kids have bikes but aren't allowed to ride them.

I live 2 blocks from a school and they don't even have a bike rack.

My son started at the school this year and when I mentioned to the teacher that he wanted to ride
his bike, the teacher responded with, "oh we can't allow that". Like I was bad parent for
suggesting it.

Have you set up a meeting with the teacher or the principal to discuss this policy? (If, indeed,
it is a policy; a significant percentage of all rules seem to be made up on the spot for no
particular reason.)

--Bruce F.

(mark freedman) said:

Where do you live ? I don't feel safe walking around by myself. I certainly wouldn't send my
child out alone.

Too many violent criminals and sexual predators waiting for prey. Especially near schools.

There have even been recent cases of attacks inside school buildings.

And I live in a "good area," in a city which used to be noted for its safety. :-(

...an area now unfortunately plagued by rampant irrational (and statistically
indefensible) paranoia.

Chalo Colina not dependent on the 6 o'clock report for my version of reality

don't blame the Mom's - what a cop out

blame the mindless one size fits all school boards and the [censored] teachers unions

"J. Bruce Fields" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, NYRides

Quoted message said:

My home is in a fairly quiet, suburban neighborhood, within a 3-minute

walk

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the local elementary school. When my kids were growing up here, they walked or rode their
bikes to school every day. Now, the school district has made it "illegal" for kids to get to
school, no matter how close they live, on foot or by bike. Instead, they all line up at the
corner each morning, with the school virtually in sight, waiting for a huge bus to

take

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them across the street.

If a child shows up on foot or on a bicycle, his/her parents are called immediately.

Honestly, I can understand why it has to be this way. This neighborhood

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

now loaded with SUVs, carelessly guided by hassled Moms with their cell phones glued to their
ears. There's a major accident waiting to happen, even with the kids taking the bus to school. I
just can't imagine the

chaos

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if you added kids on bikes or on foot to the morning mix in our town.

Sounds like the kids weren't the ones that were added to the mix!

What a sad story.--Bruce F.

J. Bruce Fields said:

In article <[email hidden]>, SC Hiker Biker

Quoted message said:

2) Parents would never go for this.

There are still some that do (I know some around here, and certainly my dad encouraged me to do so
when I was a kid, and I'm glad he did). Given some motivation and education, I think a lot more
parents would encourage it.

How do you propose "educating" parents? Mandatory classes? Come on.....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

4) The school district gets sued the first accident that happens to a child riding to/from school.
The legal cost alone blocks this idea. Just one multi-million lawsuit will bankrupt a lot of
school districts.

Do you have any evidence of this? What would be the legal rationale for such a suit? Do you have
any examples of such suits?

Do you have any examples of where a school district gave each child a bicycle to ride to school each
day? Come on.... we all know the first accident that would occur on a bike purchased by the school
would get the school district sued. If you can't see this line of logic, well....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5) If the school is accessible only via busy streets do you want 300 kids riding on the side of US
999 at one time?

Definitely! What's the problem? If they're replacing 300 cars on US 999, then they're probably
using *less* road capacity.

So you have no problem with 7 year olds riding the side of a major highway.......

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

6) Even though the odds of this are very rare, people are a lot more concerned these days about
perverts, terrorist and such going after their kids.

You'd think this could be countered to some degree by education.

Education of adults ... ah yes, and you would force education on adults, that is twice you have
claimed adult education is the answer. Of course, we all know you mean indoctrination

Paul Ilgen said:

don't blame the Mom's - what a cop out

blame the mindless one size fits all school boards and the [censored] teachers unions

As a teacher, I resemble that remark!

In article 30jZ9.56751$_s4.37694@rwcrnsc54 said:

blame the mindless one size fits all school boards and the [censored] teachers unions

Care to explain why?

--Bruce F.

In article said:

J. Bruce Fields said:

Quoted message said:

4) The school district gets sued the first accident that happens to a child riding to/from
school. The legal cost alone blocks this idea. Just one multi-million lawsuit will bankrupt a
lot of school districts.

Do you have any evidence of this? What would be the legal rationale for such a suit? Do you have
any examples of such suits?

Do you have any examples of where a school district gave each child a bicycle to ride to school
each day? Come on.... we all know the first accident that would occur on a bike purchased by the
school would get the school district sued. If you can't see this line of logic, well....

I don't see it. Can you answer the questions I asked above?

Schools still manage to sponsor atheletic programs that are not entirely risk-free. It's simply not
true that anyone can easily sue anyone for anything and recoup massive damages.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5) If the school is accessible only via busy streets do you want 300 kids riding on the side of
US 999 at one time?

Definitely! What's the problem? If they're replacing 300 cars on US 999, then they're probably
using *less* road capacity.

So you have no problem with 7 year olds riding the side of a major highway.......

So "route 999" is a major highway now and the kids in question are 7 years old? I think it takes
a few more years before kids have the skills to handle complicated traffic situations, but it's
the complexity of the traffic that matters (e.g., what sort of intersections do they have to
handle? Do they have to make left turns?), more than the size of the highway. Certainly I rode on
streets to get to school (not on major highways), along a fairly simple, low-traffic route, when
I was 10 or 11.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You'd think this could be countered to some degree by education.

Education of adults ... ah yes, and you would force education on adults, that is twice you have
claimed adult education is the answer. Of course, we all know you mean indoctrination

Where did I propose mandatory education?

--Bruce Fields