36 Spoke Crows Foot Pattern

Diesel6 said:

Does anyone know how to calculate the spoke length for the crossing spokes in a crows foot pattern (which is 3X)?

Obviously the radial spoke length calculation is easy. Not sure about the crossing spokes.

Try this http://www.dtswiss.com/

Diesel6 said:

Does anyone know how to calculate the spoke length for the crossing spokes in a crows foot pattern (which is 3X)?

Obviously the radial spoke length calculation is easy. Not sure about the crossing spokes.

Is this an ordinary 3X pattern?
If so:
http://www.damonrinard.com/spocalc.htm

artemidorus said:

Is this an ordinary 3X pattern?
If so:
damonrinard.comspocalc.htmOpen ↗

No - it's not quite the same as a normal 3X and I'm not sure if the spokes that cross are calculated differently. See this link for pictures of the wheel I'd like to build (crows foot 36). Unfortunatly there's no explanation on spoke calculation. Thanks for the link though. Looks good and I'll use it. DT Swiss one is great too but doesn't distinguish for Crows Foot.

terminalvelocity.demon.co.ukWheelBuildOpen ↗

Diesel6 said:

Does anyone know how to calculate the spoke length for the crossing spokes in a crows foot pattern (which is 3X)?

Obviously the radial spoke length calculation is easy. Not sure about the crossing spokes.

G'day mate, most good cycle shops can sell you for a few dollars a cardboard slide graph that tells you what spoke length to use in any size wheel with any cross, or radial lace patten. I had one in my shop for years and as that was 10 yrs ago, I looked and cannot find it in a hurry to tell you where I got it from. I do think it was from the Shimano rep. hope that helps [email hidden].
regards Terry

terry prowse said:

G'day mate, most good cycle shops can sell you for a few dollars a cardboard slide graph that tells you what spoke length to use in any size wheel with any cross, or radial lace patten. I had one in my shop for years and as that was 10 yrs ago, I looked and cannot find it in a hurry to tell you where I got it from. I do think it was from the Shimano rep. hope that helps [email hidden].
regards Terry

Thanks Terry. I take it it takes into account hub and rim size. I'll ask at my LBS and see what they can do for me.

Why on earth do you want to build a crows foot wheel? It does nothing for the structural strength of the wheel and the weight difference would be better if you did radial non drive and 3x drive side. Hasn't the crows foot fad died a couple of times already through history??

Phill P said:

Why on earth do you want to build a crows foot wheel? It does nothing for the structural strength of the wheel and the weight difference would be better if you did radial non drive and 3x drive side. Hasn't the crows foot fad died a couple of times already through history??

geocities.comlacingsr.htmOpen ↗

I read here that combining crows foot on drive side and 2 or 3 cross on non drive side gives very stiff wheels...

The radial spokes provide no torsional stiffness, and there are less crossing spokes (at a very poor angle) to transmit torque. You might as well build a normal 24 spoke 3 cross and get the weight and aero advantage of less spokes.
In the verticle plane radial spokes are only a few % shorter than radial so the verticle stiffness isn't going to be that different.
If crows foot was any good brands would be using it. The only "non standard" pattern of any use is the campy/fulcrum 2:1 spoking which doubles the crossed drive side spokes compared to the non drive side.

Phill P said:

The radial spokes provide no torsional stiffness, and there are less crossing spokes (at a very poor angle) to transmit torque. You might as well build a normal 24 spoke 3 cross and get the weight and aero advantage of less spokes.
In the verticle plane radial spokes are only a few % shorter than radial so the verticle stiffness isn't going to be that different.
If crows foot was any good brands would be using it. The only "non standard" pattern of any use is the campy/fulcrum 2:1 spoking which doubles the crossed drive side spokes compared to the non drive side.

TribesMan said:

geocities.comlacingsr.htmOpen ↗

I read here that combining crows foot on drive side and 2 or 3 cross on non drive side gives very stiff wheels...

Thanks for the feedback. I don't really want to build the wheel for aero, lightness or even strength specifically. I know 36 spokes in any pattern will be pretty strong. I just want to do it for something a bit different. I'm also going to build a 24 spoke 3X but I don't need too much advice for that. I'd still like to know how to calculate the spoke lengths for the crossing spokes in the crows foot pattern. Does anyone know the answer to that one?!?

Diesel6 said:

No - it's not quite the same as a normal 3X and I'm not sure if the spokes that cross are calculated differently. See this link for pictures of the wheel I'd like to build (crows foot 36). Unfortunatly there's no explanation on spoke calculation. Thanks for the link though. Looks good and I'll use it. DT Swiss one is great too but doesn't distinguish for Crows Foot.

terminalvelocity.demon.co.ukWheelBuildOpen ↗

It seems to me that you'd have 6 sets of 3 spokes on each side. I've never built one but it seems to me that you'd have 6 spokes the radial length and 12 spokes would be the cross 2 length. Rear wheel spokes might be different side to side so you would have 4 different length spokes in the wheel. Matching up the two sides so that you'd have parallel spokes adjacent to the valve stem and making the hub logo visible through the valve hole - that could get interesting and I haven't even considered the tensioning and trueing process.

Good luck.

Diesel6 said:

I just want to do it for something a bit different. I'm also going to build a 24 spoke 3X but I don't need too much advice for that.

Good luck on that one too. I'm thinking that the spokes are going to cross over each other at the spoke holes so it's going to be a bear to build and impossible to replace a single spoke. Replacing spokes is likely be a frequent issue because the spokes are going to enter the rim at a pretty acute angle. That tends to make them break at the nipple. Then again, I've never tried doing it.

I'm still working on building a perfect cross 3 wheel. Sometimes boreing is good.