Switching to flat bars (from drops)

Graham Ashton used his keyboard to write :

Quoted message said:

Everything seems to be 9 speed these days. How easy is it to get flat
bar mounted gear shifters that will work with a 6 speed Shimano SIS
system?

Shouldn't be a problem.

Quoted message said:

I've read on the CTC site that the downtube levers pull more cable than
bar mounted levers, and that you therefore need a new front mech. Is
there anyway round it, so that I can avoid changing the front mech?

Levers and front mechs need to be compatible if you're using Rapidfire
levers, but if you simply go for old fashioned thumbshifters there's no
problem at all:

http://www.byercycles.co.uk/13.htm (scroll to about two fifths of the
way down the page).

Obviously your rear mech needs to be Shimano SIS compatible.

Quoted message said:

Final question: What's the favourite type of flat bar changer; twist
grip or the push button/trigger style (sorry, I'm not sure what they're
called)?

Riders have their own preferences. Rapidfire (push button / trigger
style) are probably the slickest but thumbshifters are probably the
most reliable, actually. If you don't want to faff about, they're by
far the simplest option.

--
Simon
www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk

Graham Ashton said:

Hi. I've got a 15-20 year old road bike with dropped bars. I often
find that, 30 minutes into a ride, my shoulder and neck muscles are
stiff and painful, and am considering replacing the drops with flat
bars. I'd also put bar ends on.

Why do you think this will help ? The top of the flat bars will be the same
height as the top of the drop bars, and you get fewer hand positions.
Instead, look at whether you can adjust the existing bars; as its an old
bike, it will have a quill stem. This is easy to slide up and down (to the
limit marker on the stem), and you can purchase new taller stems if needed.

Quoted message said:

I've got a 6 speed Shimano cassette with SIS shifters on the downtube.
If I switch to flat bars I ought to replace the downtube levers; I'll
be commuting on it in a built up area and would like everything
accessible from the bars.

Everything seems to be 9 speed these days. How easy is it to get flat
bar mounted gear shifters that will work with a 6 speed Shimano SIS
system?

If doing things as cheaply as possible, then until very recently Shimano
sold a TY22 6-speed thumb lever which was very cheap. Should be able to
find one if you search around. Or a thumb lever shifter which works on
friction alone.

Even cheaper, if your down-tube shifters are band-on, it ought to be
possible to mount them on the handlebars (and if its a pair of levers on a
common band, you could put them on the stem).
You'll need to source some packing material to bring the diameter of the
bars up to that of the down-tube (I'd knock something up two half-collars in
delrin or aluminium, but I have a lathe and other stuff to hand).

Your other problem will be brake levers; if you dig around you should be
able to find some cantilever brake levers (or ones which have an internal
adjustment from V-brake to cantilever brake), though these are now becoming
harder to find. The cantilever brake levers will work with your old road
bike brakes.

Quoted message said:

I've read on the CTC site that the downtube levers pull more cable
than bar mounted levers, and that you therefore need a new front
mech. Is there anyway round it, so that I can avoid changing the
front mech?

Yes, use thumb shifters in friction mode :-)

Quoted message said:

Final question: What's the favourite type of flat bar changer; twist
grip or the push button/trigger style (sorry, I'm not sure what
they're called)?

The one which works with your hands. Sorry, its a personal preference thing.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Simon D said:

Quoted message said:

Final question: What's the favourite type of flat bar changer; twist
grip or the push button/trigger style (sorry, I'm not sure what they're
called)?

Riders have their own preferences. Rapidfire (push button / trigger
style) are probably the slickest but thumbshifters are probably the
most reliable, actually. If you don't want to faff about, they're by
far the simplest option.

--
Simon

I don't recall seeing a twist gripper on anything other than a low end
bike, (though I haven't looked that much)...right?

Nigel Cliffe said:

Graham Ashton said:

Hi. I've got a 15-20 year old road bike with dropped bars. I often
find that, 30 minutes into a ride, my shoulder and neck muscles are
stiff and painful, and am considering replacing the drops with flat
bars. I'd also put bar ends on.

Why do you think this will help ? The top of the flat bars will be the same
height as the top of the drop bars, and you get fewer hand positions.

Might be a saddle positioning issue, too.

In article <[email hidden]>

Graham Ashton said:

Hi. I've got a 15-20 year old road bike with dropped bars. I often find
that, 30 minutes into a ride, my shoulder and neck muscles are stiff
and painful, and am considering replacing the drops with flat bars. I'd
also put bar ends on.

Try fitting a shorter higher stem, and moving the seat down a bit and
back as far as it will go.

Quoted message said:

I've got a 6 speed Shimano cassette with SIS shifters on the downtube.
If I switch to flat bars I ought to replace the downtube levers; I'll
be commuting on it in a built up area and would like everything
accessible from the bars.

Everything seems to be 9 speed these days. How easy is it to get flat
bar mounted gear shifters that will work with a 6 speed Shimano SIS
system?

Six speed still gets used on bottom-end stuff. There's a load of cheap
Revoshifters on eBay at the moment:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300034724473

Quoted message said:

I've read on the CTC site that the downtube levers pull more cable than
bar mounted levers, and that you therefore need a new front mech. Is
there anyway round it, so that I can avoid changing the front mech?

Use a non-indexed left hand shifter.

Quoted message said:

Final question: What's the favourite type of flat bar changer; twist
grip or the push button/trigger style (sorry, I'm not sure what they're
called)?

The trigger-style is called Rapidfire. I have Rapidfire and GripShift
on my bikes - they both work fine. Even thumbshifters work well enough,
and they are probably the simplest option.

In article <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Simon D said:

Quoted message said:

Final question: What's the favourite type of flat bar changer; twist
grip or the push button/trigger style (sorry, I'm not sure what they're
called)?

Riders have their own preferences. Rapidfire (push button / trigger
style) are probably the slickest but thumbshifters are probably the
most reliable, actually. If you don't want to faff about, they're by
far the simplest option.

I don't recall seeing a twist gripper on anything other than a low end
bike, (though I haven't looked that much)...right?

They were used on some mid/high-end stuff for a while, but are generally
considered better suited to utility bikes than proper off-roaders. If
Shimano hadn't made STI work I reckon gripshifters would be a lot more
popular, because they're generally better than thumbshifters. When
Shimano introduced STI they had reliability problems and gripshifters
were favoured by some users - I don't know if they're still made the
same way, but the original design was elegantly simple.

Simon D said:

Levers and front mechs need to be compatible if you're using Rapidfire
levers, but if you simply go for old fashioned thumbshifters there's no
problem at all:

http://www.byercycles.co.uk/13.htm(scroll to about two fifths of the
way down the page).

That's a good link, thanks. I think an old thumb shifter for the front
mech would be fine.

Quoted message said:

Rapidfire (push button / trigger
style) are probably the slickest but thumbshifters are probably the
most reliable,

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about the two different types. I'd probably spend
the extra on rapid fire, but I'm quite keen on the twist-grip-style
from eBay (as linked to by Rob later in the thread). Can you get
matching twist-grip shifters that work in friction mode, or would I
need to stick with a thumb shifter for the front? Maybe I should just
change the front mech too...

Thanks,

Graham

Nigel Cliffe said:

Graham Ashton said:

my shoulder and neck muscles are
stiff and painful, and am considering replacing the drops with flat
bars. I'd also put bar ends on.

Quoted message said:

Why do you think this will help ? The top of the flat bars will be the same
height as the top of the drop bars, and you get fewer hand positions.

You do, but with some bars you can get your arms and wrists positioned
at a very different angle. I was thinking of getting some comfort bars
(see link below) that would put my arms in a different riding position.

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/category-Anatomic--other-handlebars-591.htm

A potentially pricey experiment, but I'd enjoy trying it so am not
averse to giving it a go.

SJS seem keen on mounting bar ends on the inside of the brake levers,
which they say gives you a more 'on the hoods' type of position. I
never use the bottoms of my drops anyway (it's too uncomfortable) and,
given that I'm going to be commuting, feel I'd be better off with the
slightly more 'head up' stance that flat bars would give me (whilst
still having my finger tips on the brake levers).

Admittedly, that's not hugely scientific, but I fancy trying it.

Do carbon bars have more give (making them more comfortable), or are
they so expensive simply because they're a few grams lighter?

Quoted message said:

Instead, look at whether you can adjust the existing bars; as its an old
bike, it will have a quill stem. This is easy to slide up and down (to the
limit marker on the stem), and you can purchase new taller stems if needed.

You're right, it is a quill. I bought a couple of different stems last
season and experimented with them; my bars are now pretty high, and
have been brought back slightly by my current stem, but I still feel
like I'm having to bend my neck back too much. The bars are only very
slightly lower than my saddle (which is also high). The pain was
reduced by the new stem last season, and I've only just started riding
again after a year off, so maybe I just need to get my body back into
the swing of it.

I'm 6' tall and it's a 22.5" frame. Perhaps I need a slightly bigger
bike, but you seem to be able to play tunes on frame sizes with stems
and seat pins these days, so I was going to stick with it.

Quoted message said:

Even cheaper, if your down-tube shifters are band-on, ...

I hadn't thought of that. They are, so that would work. I'm going to
stick a bid in on the Tourney shifter on eBay (mentioned earlier) and
will see how I get on with that. Maybe the current shifters would be
best kept during on the bike while I'm experimenting.

Quoted message said:

Your other problem will be brake levers; ...
The cantilever brake levers will work with your old road bike brakes.

I hadn't considered that. I've got old single pivot Shimano 105
callipers; will I still need cantilever brake levers for those? I would
instinctively have thought that they'd pull too much cable through.
Maybe I should head back over to eBay for some retro kit...

Thanks for the pointers.

Graham

In article <[email hidden]>

Graham Ashton said:

On Oct 7, 6:04 pm, "Nigel Cliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your other problem will be brake levers; ...
The cantilever brake levers will work with your old road bike brakes.

I hadn't considered that. I've got old single pivot Shimano 105
callipers; will I still need cantilever brake levers for those? I would
instinctively have thought that they'd pull too much cable through.
Maybe I should head back over to eBay for some retro kit...

V-brake levers pull more cable than caliper and cantilever ones. I used
to run what was effectively a V-brake (actually cantilevers with a
roller and a direct-pull sort of cable arrangement) and they worked OK,
although the action was obviously lighter and longer, so I suspect you
can get away with using V-brake levers and just pulling harder if
everything's set up well.

in message <[email hidden]>, Graham

Ashton (') said:

Hi. I've got a 15-20 year old road bike with dropped bars. I often find
that, 30 minutes into a ride, my shoulder and neck muscles are stiff
and painful, and am considering replacing the drops with flat bars. I'd
also put bar ends on.

OK, I don't think this is a good plan. Others may disagree, but unless the
riding position is right straight bars will be just as bad for your
shoulders and neck as drops, and if the riding position is right drops
will be better than straight bars. Sort out what is wrong with your riding
position. Once you have got that sorted, then think about what sort of
bars you want.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Our modern industrial economy takes a mountain covered with trees,
;; lakes, running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk,
;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey

in message <[email hidden]>, Graham

Ashton (') said:

Do carbon bars have more give (making them more comfortable), or are
they so expensive simply because they're a few grams lighter?

Carbon bars are for idiot weight weenies like me, with more money than
sense. Yes, they are probably very very slightly more resilient, but they
are much more expensive. Better bar tape will give you more useful added
resilience than changing to carbon bars. In any case, I don't believe
changing your bars is going to make any difference to your problem.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The Conservative Party now has the support of a smaller proportion of
the electorate in Scotland than Sinn Fein have in Northern Ireland.

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Simon D said:

Quoted message said:

Final question: What's the favourite type of flat bar changer; twist
grip or the push button/trigger style (sorry, I'm not sure what they're
called)?

Riders have their own preferences. Rapidfire (push button / trigger
style) are probably the slickest but thumbshifters are probably the
most reliable, actually. If you don't want to faff about, they're by
far the simplest option.

I don't recall seeing a twist gripper on anything other than a low end
bike, (though I haven't looked that much)...right?

Most of the top cross country racers use SRAM X.0 gripshifts these days;
they're anything but low end.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; making jokes about dyslexia isn't big, it isn't clever and
;; it isn't furry.

Simon Brooke wrote on 08/10/2006 00:01 +0100:

Quoted message said:

OK, I don't think this is a good plan. Others may disagree, but unless the
riding position is right straight bars will be just as bad for your
shoulders and neck as drops, and if the riding position is right drops
will be better than straight bars. Sort out what is wrong with your riding
position. Once you have got that sorted, then think about what sort of
bars you want.

My thoughts exactly.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Graham Ashton said:

which they say gives you a more 'on the hoods' type of position. I
never use the bottoms of my drops anyway (it's too uncomfortable) and,
given that I'm going to be commuting, feel I'd be better off with the
slightly more 'head up' stance that flat bars would give me (whilst
still having my finger tips on the brake levers).

A new stem moving your existing bars upwards would be a lot cheaper
way of getting a more head up stance (even if you added additional
cyclo-cross style levers for braking on the flat bit, like these
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?ProdID=5360007434), and might
make your drops usable.
http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/rr_comfposition.html
http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/rr_raisestem.html

Quoted message said:

like I'm having to bend my neck back too much. The bars are only very
slightly lower than my saddle (which is also high).

Bikes for riding in an upright position have the bars higher than the
saddle, like these: http://www.cycle-heaven.co.uk/gazelle.html
Generally you will want the bars nearer you as you raise them and there's
a limit to how far you can do that without needing a shorter top tube,
but you could almost certainly go up a bit further.

You can get adjustable angle quill stems which will let you adjust the
height and reach independently within limits (changing the angle moves
the bars both up and towards you, but you can adjust the quill insertion
to compensate to a certain extent).

Of course the extreme answer to lifting your head being uncomfortable is
a recumbant, but that's _not_ cheaper than changing to flat bars.

Quoted message said:

OK, I don't think this is a good plan. Others may disagree, but unless the
riding position is right straight bars will be just as bad for your
shoulders and neck as drops, and if the riding position is right drops
will be better than straight bars. Sort out what is wrong with your riding
position. Once you have got that sorted, then think about what sort of
bars you want.

Seems the sensible approach.

"Graham Ashton" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Nigel Cliffe said:

Graham Ashton wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my shoulder and neck muscles are
stiff and painful, and am considering replacing the drops with flat
bars. I'd also put bar ends on.

Quoted message said:

Why do you think this will help ? The top of the flat bars will be the
same
height as the top of the drop bars, and you get fewer hand positions.

You do, but with some bars you can get your arms and wrists positioned
at a very different angle. I was thinking of getting some comfort bars
(see link below) that would put my arms in a different riding position.

You are right. The two systems accommodate the hands quite
differently even for the same body position. The way the hands rest also
changes elbow and shoulder orientation. You won't be groping for the
brakes.

You may need to change the stem. If you mostly ride on the transverse part
of the bar or corners, leave it. If habitually further forward, add up to
30mm.

If you go for "bar middles" (recommended) then under bar shifters are the
only realistic solution - to answer your other question about twist grip.
Lever style top shifters are effectively ruled out.

The problem with underbar shifter is trying to find something compatible
with 6 speed. Stick with downtube shifters until you rebuild the wheel with
a 7. Downtubes aren't that bad actually - unlike brakes, one tends to only
change gear during times of low workload.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

OK, I don't think this is a good plan. Others may disagree,

Hi.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 17:49:40 +0100, Simon D <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

> Final question: What's the favourite type of flat bar changer;
> twist grip or the push button/trigger style (sorry, I'm not sure
> what they're called)?

Riders have their own preferences. Rapidfire (push button / trigger
style) are probably the slickest but thumbshifters are probably the
most reliable, actually. If you don't want to faff about, they're by
far the simplest option.

I don't recall seeing a twist gripper on anything other than a low
end bike, (though I haven't looked that much)...right?

Most of the top cross country racers use SRAM X.0 gripshifts these
days; they're anything but low end.

And many Dark Siders too. I've got SRAM Attack - the Shimano-compatible
jobs - on two recumbents and a mountain bike and would not consider anything
else. Rabidfires are a Work of Stan[1].

1 - pure prejudice - I had a set on my Trek 930 many years ago and the front
one borke when the bike fell in a hole. It was replaced with an ancient
Deore friction thumbshifter from the proverbial Box in the Shed.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
All your call centre are belong to us.

As an alternative to the normal comfort straight bars have a look at the
"Mary" bars from On One
http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=6&MMN_position=5:5
I got a set recently and I think they will prove to be very comfortable.

SW

"Graham Ashton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi. I've got a 15-20 year old road bike with dropped bars. I often find
that, 30 minutes into a ride, my shoulder and neck muscles are stiff
and painful, and am considering replacing the drops with flat bars. I'd
also put bar ends on.

I've got a 6 speed Shimano cassette with SIS shifters on the downtube.
If I switch to flat bars I ought to replace the downtube levers; I'll
be commuting on it in a built up area and would like everything
accessible from the bars.

Everything seems to be 9 speed these days. How easy is it to get flat
bar mounted gear shifters that will work with a 6 speed Shimano SIS
system?

I've read on the CTC site that the downtube levers pull more cable than
bar mounted levers, and that you therefore need a new front mech. Is
there anyway round it, so that I can avoid changing the front mech?

Final question: What's the favourite type of flat bar changer; twist
grip or the push button/trigger style (sorry, I'm not sure what they're
called)?

Cheers,

Graham