Frozen Bottom Bracket...what to do?

steve said:

Ive got a 15 year old Merckx (SLX) with a C-Record BB (early version, two
cups, bearing races, lock ring...not the sealed bearing kind) frozen to the
frame. Ive given up on saving the BB, but I want to get it out without
damaging the frame so I can install a new one. Any suggestions on how to do
this?

Jerry in Vermont's weekend girlfriend will be able to suck it out if you
ask her nicely.

steve said:

Ive got a 15 year old Merckx (SLX) with a C-Record BB (early version, two
cups, bearing races, lock ring...not the sealed bearing kind) frozen to the
frame. Ive given up on saving the BB, but I want to get it out without
damaging the frame so I can install a new one. Any suggestions on how to do
this?

Take it to a good bike shop.

OK, what exactly is "frozen"? Lock ring? Fixed cup? Adj. cup? Aluminum
cups or steel? --D-y

Donald Munro said:

steve said:

Ive got a 15 year old Merckx (SLX) with a C-Record BB (early version, two
cups, bearing races, lock ring...not the sealed bearing kind) frozen to the
frame. Ive given up on saving the BB, but I want to get it out without
damaging the frame so I can install a new one. Any suggestions on how to do
this?

Jerry in Vermont's weekend girlfriend will be able to suck it out if you
ask her nicely.

No sucking, its all in the tounge.

Barring that, I would use a sawzall in the downtube and seat tube. It
will come right off.

If it is the adjustable cub try using liquid wrench. If not you try
ammonia, sometimes this works with frozen seat posts. Your other option
is to try and use a pipe wrench on the adustable cup assuming there is
enough surface for the wrench to grab hold of.

Fixed cup

The more likely scenario is that the fixed cup is frozen. Find a bike
shop that has a fixed cup reomoval tool. The other option is too find
someone who has a machinists vise like a Wilton. Put the fixed cup in
the vise and this may work as well.

steve said:

Ive got a 15 year old Merckx (SLX) with a C-Record BB (early version, two
cups, bearing races, lock ring...not the sealed bearing kind) frozen to the
frame. Ive given up on saving the BB, but I want to get it out without
damaging the frame so I can install a new one. Any suggestions on how to do
this?

thanks,
steve
--
"The accused will now make a bogus statement."
James Joyce

Quoted message said:

If it is the adjustable cub try using liquid wrench. If not you try
ammonia, sometimes this works with frozen seat posts. Your other option
is to try and use a pipe wrench on the adustable cup assuming there is
enough surface for the wrench to grab hold of.

Fixed cup

The more likely scenario is that the fixed cup is frozen. Find a bike
shop that has a fixed cup reomoval tool. The other option is too find
someone who has a machinists vise like a Wilton. Put the fixed cup in
the vise and this may work as well.

The fixed cup tool you are looking is specifically designed to remove
fixed cups. I believe bicycle research or Hozan made this tool. If all
else fails then you may have to use something like liquid nitrogen or
liquid helium. I have used liquid freon to remove die that another bike
shop got the die stuck on.

Quoted message said:

steve said:

Ive got a 15 year old Merckx (SLX) with a C-Record BB (early version, two
cups, bearing races, lock ring...not the sealed bearing kind) frozen to the
frame. Ive given up on saving the BB, but I want to get it out without
damaging the frame so I can install a new one. Any suggestions on how to do
this?

thanks,
steve
--
"The accused will now make a bogus statement."
James Joyce

steve said:

Ive got a 15 year old Merckx (SLX) with a C-Record BB (early version, two
cups, bearing races, lock ring...not the sealed bearing kind) frozen to the
frame. Ive given up on saving the BB, but I want to get it out without
damaging the frame so I can install a new one. Any suggestions on how to do
this?

thanks,
steve
--
"The accused will now make a bogus statement."
James Joyce

lube + monkey wrench + cheater bar(4' pipe slipped over the handle of
the monkey wrench)

I recently had the same problem with a frame I bought off Ebay. I
plugged up the holes in the BB and then poured WD40 down the seat tube
and let it soak for a few days.
Then went after it with a monkey wrnech and cheater bar. I almost gave
up, but it finally
broke free.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The fixed cup tool you are looking is specifically designed to remove
fixed cups. I believe bicycle research or Hozan made this tool. If all
else fails then you may have to use something like liquid nitrogen or
liquid helium. I have used liquid freon to remove die that another bike
shop got the die stuck on.

So _that's_ what happened to the ozone layer.

1. Soak with penatrating oil. wait 2 days.
2. Stick entire frame in a walk in freezer or similar.
3. get proper tools and turn them in the right direction.
4. take frame out of freezer and heat center of BB (the bike frame with
a propane torch, not the spindle!) as you turn tool in proper
direction. the frame will expand at a quicker rate than the fixed cup
and allow you to get the piece off.

if the fixed cup gets warm, repeat the freezing. the idea is to go
after the temp difference between frame and cups.

I don't recommend using a torch since you will wreck the paint. If the
adjusting cup comes off then the fixed cup can be removed. The secial
fixed cup removal tool will it. It's a essciall a bolt with a nut that
jams into the fixed cup. I suppose one could make one with a bolt. The
nut and bolt would probably have a left hand thread to prevent it from
loosening.

Quoted message said:

1. Soak with penatrating oil. wait 2 days.
2. Stick entire frame in a walk in freezer or similar.
3. get proper tools and turn them in the right direction.
4. take frame out of freezer and heat center of BB (the bike frame with
a propane torch, not the spindle!) as you turn tool in proper
direction. the frame will expand at a quicker rate than the fixed cup
and allow you to get the piece off.

if the fixed cup gets warm, repeat the freezing. the idea is to go
after the temp difference between frame and cups.

in message <[email hidden]>, steve

(') said:

Ive got a 15 year old Merckx (SLX) with a C-Record BB (early version, two
cups, bearing races, lock ring...not the sealed bearing kind) frozen to
the
frame. Ive given up on saving the BB, but I want to get it out without
damaging the frame so I can install a new one. Any suggestions on how to
do this?

First: MAKE SURE YOU ARE TURNING IT THE RIGHT WAY! Make sure you know
whether it is English, Italian or French thread. Otherwise whatever you do
will make it work. It should be stamped on the outside of the left-hand
cup.

To get extra torque, clamp the BB cup in a big bench vice and turn the
frame (but again, make sure you're turning it the right way!)

Ideally, immerse the whole bottom bracket area in penetrating fluid for at
least 48 hours. If you've tried that and it doesn't work, try heat, but
you'll destroy the paint an it's likely that you'll damage the brazing
before you can get enough heat in fast enough to make any difference. The
bearing cups, like the frame, are steel, so you've no differential
expansion working for you.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 'I think we should trust our president in every decision
;; that he makes and we should just support that'
;; Britney Spears of George W Bush, CNN 04:09:03

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

If it is the adjustable cub try using liquid wrench. If not you try
ammonia, sometimes this works with frozen seat posts.

Ammonia won't work in a steel-steel joint. It works between steel and
aluminium because it dissolves aluminium oxide.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I can't work yanks out......
;; Why do they frown upon sex yet relish violence?
;; Deep Fried Lettuce

Simon Brooke said:

bearing cups, like the frame, are steel, so you've no differential
expansion working for you.

Right, and the inner diameter of a ring doesn't change when the whole
thing is heated or cooled.

--
E. Dronkert

Simon Brooke said:

First: MAKE SURE YOU ARE TURNING IT THE RIGHT WAY! Make sure you know
whether it is English, Italian or French thread.

It's Italian (just trying to make a contribution here <g>😉.

Quoted message said:

Ideally, immerse the whole bottom bracket area in penetrating fluid for at
least 48 hours.

I used to use Liquid Wrench. It might be just aroma therapy, but WTH,
that helps, too. FWIW, I don't get the same warm fuzzy from the smell
of WD 40.

The idea is to get everything ready, and make it move with the first
careful-but-powerful turn of the wrench. "Before the tool has time to
slip" or the the cup to dog-ear.

A FLBS (Planetary, Stella Link/Brays Bayou, Houston) got a stuck fixed
cup out for me one day. The handle extension used was about five feet
long, and that's what it took (plus the correct shop tool and some
carefully applied determination) to loosen that Campy cup that had been
assembled "new" 20-odd years previous and never ridden. One of the cup
flats changed shape a little, still very usuable, and no thread damage
to cup or BB shell was visible after the act. Maybe the Liquid Wrench
2-day soak helped...

Awhile back, I had an old aluminum fixed cup lose all semblance of
wrench flats due to not using a shop tool to service it over the years.
My plumbers' 1/2" nipple extractor pushed into the spindle hole and
turned c-c (Italian BB) with a fairly long handle got it right out of
there. It was toast anyhow, inside and out. Nipple extractors, about $7
or so at your friendly local plumbing supply store; much cheaper than
the pipe wrench that didn't have enough crumbly aluminum to grab on to.
--D-y

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Simon Brooke said:

bearing cups, like the frame, are steel, so you've no differential
expansion working for you.

Right, and the inner diameter of a ring doesn't change when the whole
thing is heated or cooled.

Care to rethink that or provide proof?

--
Michael Press

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

If it is the adjustable cub try using liquid wrench. If not you try
ammonia, sometimes this works with frozen seat posts.

Ammonia won't work in a steel-steel joint. It works between steel and
aluminium because it dissolves aluminium oxide.

No aluminium oxide is not soluble in ammonia. The ammonia
attacks the aluminium.

Al2O3 is the principal component of emory, ruby, sapphire,
and other gem stones.

--
Michael Press

Quoted message said:

nipple extractor

Congrats on first use in rbr.

On 6-Oct-2006, smacked up and reeling, [email hidden] blindly
formulated
the following incoherence:

Quoted message said:

If all
else fails then you may have to use something like liquid nitrogen or
liquid helium

So...take the frame to NASA, basically? :^)

I talked to a neighbor about a solvent called "PB" that dizzolves aluminum
oxide. I'll locate that, and take it with the frame to the local shop so
they can use the big tools.

Thanks, all you bike-dudes.

steve
--
"The accused will now make a bogus statement."
James Joyce

In article <[email hidden]>,

steve said:

On 6-Oct-2006, smacked up and reeling, [email hidden] blindly
formulated
the following incoherence:

Quoted message said:

If all
else fails then you may have to use something like liquid nitrogen or
liquid helium

So...take the frame to NASA, basically? :^)

I talked to a neighbor about a solvent called "PB" that dizzolves aluminum
oxide. I'll locate that, and take it with the frame to the local shop so
they can use the big tools.

Thanks, all you bike-dudes.

Two solvents for Al2O3 are molten potassium
and molten cryolite (AlF6.3Na).
Which method does PB use?

steve said:

On 6-Oct-2006, smacked up and reeling, [email hidden] blindly formulated
the following incoherence:

Quoted message said:

If all
else fails then you may have to use something like liquid nitrogen or
liquid helium

So...take the frame to NASA, basically? :^)

Liquid nitrogen isn't that hard to find. Liquid helium is
harder. Both of these are completely unnecessary for
removing a fixed cup.

Quoted message said:

I talked to a neighbor about a solvent called "PB" that dizzolves aluminum
oxide. I'll locate that, and take it with the frame to the local shop so
they can use the big tools.

Thanks, all you bike-dudes.

Ah, the dreaded neighbor who knows something. You have
a steel bike (Merckx SLX) and a steel fixed cup, yes? Where'd
the aluminum oxide come from?

If you have the adjustable cup removed, Sheldon Brown's
webpage tells you how to make a BB cup removal tool out
of a bolt, a nut, and some big washers.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
The bike shop tool is a professional version of this,
but the $1 version is very good too.
It works way better than trying to futz around with a
big wrench on the fixed cup flats.

Ben