Litespeed Ultimate '04 problem

campycd said:

The carbon seat stay is coming out of the ti frame(unglued). Have you
seen or had this problem. What will Litespeed do for you? Can I still
ride for a few more miles?

How good is your medical and dental insurance? "My bike is breaking
into two pieces, can I still go screaming around on it ....?" seems
like the wrong question. If I were you, I would contact LiteSpeed
ASAP. When I had a name brand steel bike with a bad weld years ago,
the minute I showed it to the dealer and he called the manufacturer,
the manufacturer had the dealer confiscate the bike until they could
replace; they did not want the liability of a manufacturing flaw
causing an accident/injury.

- rick

campycd said:

The carbon seat stay is coming out of the ti frame(unglued). Have you
seen or had this problem. What will Litespeed do for you? Can I still
ride for a few more miles?

I'd not ride it a meter more. What does the dealer say? My friend who
knows both Ti and Carbon says this any such bonds aren't to his liking.
He sort of predicted short lives for such frames.

-paul

campycd said:

The carbon seat stay is coming out of the ti frame(unglued). Have you
seen or had this problem. What will Litespeed do for you? Can I still
ride for a few more miles?

I had an all-titanium Litespeed on which one of the welds failed. Via
a shop I sent it back and they fixed it or replaced the frame -- I'm
not sure. This was in the early 1990s though.

--
JT
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campycd said:

The carbon seat stay is coming out of the ti frame(unglued). Have you
seen or had this problem. What will Litespeed do for you? Can I still
ride for a few more miles?

From their website :

"Litespeed carbon and Litespeed aluminum frames shall be under warranty
for three (3) years from the date of purchase to the original owner of
the bicycle. All bicycle components and additions will be warranted only
by the manufacturer of the product. Litespeed is responsible only for
the bicycle frame."

--
..dt

campycd said:

The carbon seat stay is coming out of the ti frame(unglued). Have you
seen or had this problem. What will Litespeed do for you? Can I still
ride for a few more miles?

I wouldn't and I'd send it to ACG(Litespeed maker) asap...if no
warranty, at least they will fix it..another reason to not glue carbon
and metal together. NOT unusual with lots of frames of this design.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

campycd said:

The carbon seat stay is coming out of the ti frame(unglued). Have you
seen or had this problem. What will Litespeed do for you? Can I still
ride for a few more miles?

I wouldn't and I'd send it to ACG(Litespeed maker) asap...if no
warranty, at least they will fix it..another reason to not glue carbon
and metal together. NOT unusual with lots of frames of this design.

Not unusual at all but sadly by now it should be a thing of the past.
The cause is normally a phenomenon called Galvanic Corrosion .. the
same thing that causes aluminum seat posts to bind in Steel frames. Ask
Kestrel how many of their early Bottom Bracket shells came loose.
Typically to get around this problem the manufacturer would bond an
insulating element (in aerospace we often used Mylar) between the CF
and the metal.
I hope by this point that problems like this are isolated incidents.

Unfortunately, not so isolated. I have a 2004 Eddy Merckx Race (aluminum
w/carbon seatstays) that is separating at the interface. Repeated requests
through Gita to EM have yielded nada. Guess I'm stuck.

Rick
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

campycd said:

The carbon seat stay is coming out of the ti frame(unglued). Have you
seen or had this problem. What will Litespeed do for you? Can I still
ride for a few more miles?

I wouldn't and I'd send it to ACG(Litespeed maker) asap...if no
warranty, at least they will fix it..another reason to not glue carbon
and metal together. NOT unusual with lots of frames of this design.

Not unusual at all but sadly by now it should be a thing of the past.
The cause is normally a phenomenon called Galvanic Corrosion .. the
same thing that causes aluminum seat posts to bind in Steel frames. Ask
Kestrel how many of their early Bottom Bracket shells came loose.
Typically to get around this problem the manufacturer would bond an
insulating element (in aerospace we often used Mylar) between the CF
and the metal.
I hope by this point that problems like this are isolated incidents.

Rick Holstein said:

Unfortunately, not so isolated. I have a 2004 Eddy Merckx Race (aluminum
w/carbon seatstays) that is separating at the interface. Repeated requests
through Gita to EM have yielded nada. Guess I'm stuck.

AFAIK, as the US importer/agent for Merckx, it is Gita that is
responsible to you for your warranty, not Merckx. Seems to me that
they're passing the buck.

Quoted message said:

Not unusual at all but sadly by now it should be a thing of the past.
The cause is normally a phenomenon called Galvanic Corrosion .. the
same thing that causes aluminum seat posts to bind in Steel frames. Ask
Kestrel how many of their early Bottom Bracket shells came loose.
Typically to get around this problem the manufacturer would bond an
insulating element (in aerospace we often used Mylar) between the CF
and the metal.

Galvanic corrosion is pretty easy to prevent, and very frequently blamed
when it's not actually the cause of the problem. In many cases, the issue is
not having proper clearances between the two parts. The fit may actually be
too tight, causing the adhesive to squeegee out of the joint.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

Rick Holstein said:

Unfortunately, not so isolated. I have a 2004 Eddy Merckx Race (aluminum
w/carbon seatstays) that is separating at the interface. Repeated requests
through Gita to EM have yielded nada. Guess I'm stuck.

AFAIK, as the US importer/agent for Merckx, it is Gita that is
responsible to you for your warranty, not Merckx. Seems to me that
they're passing the buck.

Yes and no...Gita is the importer but it could be that Merckx, like a
lot of euro frame makers, do not really have a 'warranty'. I know that
is true of Colnago. So, it is kinda of up to Gita as to whether or not
they will 'warranty' the frame. Merckx, for info, has stopped putting
carbon ends onto their frames, as did Litespeed...marketing anyway, no
effect on the 'ride'...

Because titanium quickly forms a microscopic layer of titanium
oxide when exposed to air, it is notoriously difficult to bond to.
In can be done, but the tianium has to be prepared properly.
The surface should be mechanically abraided (sand paper or
scotch-brite), then chemically etched. Then the bond has to be
made within an hour or two, or the surface will oxidize. Combine
that with the blind-bond that this likely is because the stay is
inserted
into the titanium, and it's pretty easy to see why a bad bond is
likely.

I've never owned a titanium frame, but I always thought the beauty
of titanium was those nice plush seat stays that gave you the nice
comfortable ride. Why did they replace those with graphite?
Sounds like a marketing gimic.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

campycd said:

The carbon seat stay is coming out of the ti frame(unglued). Have you
seen or had this problem. What will Litespeed do for you? Can I still
ride for a few more miles?

I wouldn't and I'd send it to ACG(Litespeed maker) asap...if no
warranty, at least they will fix it..another reason to not glue carbon
and metal together. NOT unusual with lots of frames of this design.

Not unusual at all but sadly by now it should be a thing of the past.
The cause is normally a phenomenon called Galvanic Corrosion .. the
same thing that causes aluminum seat posts to bind in Steel frames. Ask
Kestrel how many of their early Bottom Bracket shells came loose.
Typically to get around this problem the manufacturer would bond an
insulating element (in aerospace we often used Mylar) between the CF
and the metal.
I hope by this point that problems like this are isolated incidents.

SteveT said:

Because titanium quickly forms a microscopic layer of titanium
oxide when exposed to air, it is notoriously difficult to bond to.
In can be done, but the tianium has to be prepared properly.
The surface should be mechanically abraided (sand paper or
scotch-brite), then chemically etched. Then the bond has to be
made within an hour or two, or the surface will oxidize. Combine
that with the blind-bond that this likely is because the stay is
inserted
into the titanium, and it's pretty easy to see why a bad bond is
likely.

I've never owned a titanium frame, but I always thought the beauty
of titanium was those nice plush seat stays that gave you the nice
comfortable ride. Why did they replace those with graphite?
Sounds like a marketing gimic.

It is a marketing gimic.. or at the very best it is people jumping on a
trend simply because they can't be left behind. I have a hard time
blaming the company for 100% of the problem thaty have to make their
payrolls after all..

Ultimately though, your comment, Mikes comments and my earlier comments
all go to one specific point. These problems should all be warranty
issues since the cause is a defect in workmanship or design. The issues
are known and should be avoided.

I have an '05 Ultimate. For a few years they were made from titanium
with a carbon fiber seatstay. I think the 3 year limitation might
apply to only all aluminum or all carbon. I believe Litespeed has a
lifetime warranty on the Ultimate.

http://litespeed.com/2006/warranty.aspx?all=t

rick

dtmeister said:

campycd said:

The carbon seat stay is coming out of the ti frame(unglued). Have you
seen or had this problem. What will Litespeed do for you? Can I still
ride for a few more miles?

From their website :

"Litespeed carbon and Litespeed aluminum frames shall be under warranty
for three (3) years from the date of purchase to the original owner of
the bicycle. All bicycle components and additions will be warranted only
by the manufacturer of the product. Litespeed is responsible only for
the bicycle frame."

--
.dt