Indoor Training Hour Conversion

wiredued said:

I find indoor training to be physically more difficult is this just me or is 2 hours on the trainer equivilent to 3 hours on the road?

Mentally, maybe.

I think its because you cant coast for a few seconds on a trainer like you can on the road. One thing I found was my positioning on the trainer was way off, i had to raise my front tire 4-5 inches to be level, then it got a little easier.

are you using a fan to cool you down?

The road can be mentally tough as well if you bite off more than you can chew it's a long way home. On the trainer if you over do it you just cool down and hit the shower.

RapDaddyo said:

Mentally, maybe.

Yes I have a fan aiming right at me.

wh0areume said:

are you using a fan to cool you down?

I do tend to coast every now and then on the road which provides relief I don't get indoors. It may even be 2 hours equals 4 on the road.

scottmilk9 said:

I think its because you cant coast for a few seconds on a trainer like you can on the road. One thing I found was my positioning on the trainer was way off, i had to raise my front tire 4-5 inches to be level, then it got a little easier.

wiredued said:

I do tend to coast every now and then on the road which provides relief I don't get indoors. It may even be 2 hours equals 4 on the road.

I recently experimented a new course. A 10k long segment no cars, flat like a pool table, no obstacle no turn. I admit that never coasting can become a factor. 4x15 in these conditions feels a bit like on a trainer.

I've noticed when riding on the fluid trainer that I have to exert more muscular force near top dead center whereas when I'm riding on the road the pedal stoke seems more natural. I have to be careful on the trainer because it seems to hurt my knees more.

Last summer during the heat wave I brought my bike inside and spent 3 weeks on the trainer becuase it was just too hot outside AND because I wanted to watch the TdF while riding 😄 . I did 2 hour sessions at 75% MaxHR. When the heat wave and the Tour were over I went back to riding outside and found 2 hour 75% efforts were very easy compared to using the trainer.

I didn't go by MPH on the trainer as there isn't a true correlation to road miles. The CycleOps Fluid2 seems much more difficult except at very low speeds.

There was a thread earlier (or was it on the wattage list) about power differences between riding on a trainer or the road. If I remember correctly some people found it impossible to achive the same power on a trainer, some found it equally hard(?), and there where even some that found the trainer easier.

I guess that one obvious factor is heat. Without adequate cooling riding on the trainer will be extremely tough. Another factor is of course mental toughness. Or could it be something else? Maybe differences in pedal stroke is part explanation? I find it impossible to reach the same power on a trainer as on the road despite higher HR and RPE. Riding on the trainer is also a good way for me to bring on patellofemoral pain syndrome. I guess another way to put it is that it would be a question of technique and that some peoples natural technique is more effecient on a trainer than others.
So while not saying that this is the truth, it definitely feels like there is something that makes it much easier for my body if I'm allowed "micro coasting". This winter I'll get me a fortius so I'll be able to coast on the trainer.[img]cyclingforums.comsmile.gifOpen ↗[/img] It will be interesting to see if this will make any difference.

As I understand it, power is pretty much the truth. This would mean that since my trainer sessions feels harder but according to the power meter are not, the trainer sessions are actually less effecient, right?

Maybe it's just the codeine talking.....[img]cyclingforums.combiggrin.gifOpen ↗[/img]

I used to think that but it's simply adaptation I'd say. Watts are watts. Many can do better indoors, others like me find indoors harder but that is because 99% of my hours are outdoors (generally fab weather year round). If I did 50% on a trainer I bet I'd be able to emulate outdoor power levels just fine (providing there was sufficient cooling available). A fan is not sufficient at room temperature in my view for any more than 30-40 min. Once core temp goes up, power will fall.

jstock said:

There was a thread earlier (or was it on the wattage list) about power differences between riding on a trainer or the road. If I remember correctly some people found it impossible to achive the same power on a trainer, some found it equally hard(?), and there where even some that found the trainer easier.

I guess that one obvious factor is heat. Without adequate cooling riding on the trainer will be extremely tough. Another factor is of course mental toughness. Or could it be something else? Maybe differences in pedal stroke is part explanation? I find it impossible to reach the same power on a trainer as on the road despite higher HR and RPE. Riding on the trainer is also a good way for me to bring on patellofemoral pain syndrome. I guess another way to put it is that it would be a question of technique and that some peoples natural technique is more effecient on a trainer than others.
So while not saying that this is the truth, it definitely feels like there is something that makes it much easier for my body if I'm allowed "micro coasting". This winter I'll get me a fortius so I'll be able to coast on the trainer.[img]cyclingforums.comsmile.gifOpen ↗[/img] It will be interesting to see if this will make any difference.

As I understand it, power is pretty much the truth. This would mean that since my trainer sessions feels harder but according to the power meter are not, the trainer sessions are actually less effecient, right?

Maybe it's just the codeine talking.....[img]cyclingforums.combiggrin.gifOpen ↗[/img]

Without getting too scientific, lots of people seem to have settled on 1.5 hours road = 1.0 hours on the indoor trainer. That way you do not inflate your training time too much! 😉

Alex Simmons said:

I used to think that but it's simply adaptation I'd say. Watts are watts. Many can do better indoors, others like me find indoors harder but that is because 99% of my hours are outdoors (generally fab weather year round). If I did 50% on a trainer I bet I'd be able to emulate outdoor power levels just fine (providing there was sufficient cooling available).

I completely agree. However, my personal belief is that some adapt more easily (which I'm pretty certain is true) and that one reason might be a pedal stroke that is suitable for trainers (this is something I'm not sure of at all, but it sounds nice[img]cyclingforums.comsmile.gifOpen ↗[/img]). I'm sure that if I give the trainer enough time, even I will adapt. For now maybe 90% of my rides are outdoors, and that is not due to great wheather, but I usually prefer blizzards and -10 degrees celcius over the trainer[img]cyclingforums.comsmile.gifOpen ↗[/img]. I'm pretty sure that the Fortius will change this though.

The point I was really trying to make is that if I would go by feel 30 minutes on the trainer would equate 2 hours on the road or so, whereas my power meter tells me that trainer time is really less efficient (which makes sense), while doing so I guess I strayed offtopic a bit....

jstock said:

.........whereas my power meter tells me that trainer time is really less efficient (which makes sense)....

I couldn't disagree more 😕

You're generating power ALL the time on the trainer (no downhills or coasting 😉 so how can that be less efficient than riding on the road 😕

IMHO, the best place to do L4 and L5 workouts are on the trainer, and not on the road, as you're generating 'consistent' power ALL the time with no opportunity to 'back off', which often happens out on the road

MY02_STi said:

I couldn't disagree more 😕

I guess you missunderstod me? It actaully makes perfect sense. Since I suck at riding the trainer it would indeed be very strange for me to put out more power than on the road. Or are you saying that everyone will output more power on the trainer?

jstock said:

.....I guess you missunderstod me?....

I was only disagreeing with your statement that training on a trainer was 'less efficient', not with how much power you can generate either on the trainer or on the road. 🙂

Some riders will generate more power on a trainer, some will generate more power on the road (but that's a whole other forum topic 😉 )

I tend to aim for trainer sessions where my AP and NP are almost identical, which, to my way of reasoning, is a very efficient way of training 😎 although I'm sure plenty will disagree :eek:

jstock said:

......I guess you missunderstod me?.....

I was only disagreeing with your statement that training on a trainer was 'less efficient', not with how much power you can generate either on the trainer or on the road. 🙂

Some riders will generate more power on a trainer, some will generate more power on the road (but that's a whole other forum topic 😉 )

I tend to aim for trainer sessions where my AP and NP are almost identical, which, to my way of reasoning, is a very efficient way of training 😎 although I'm sure plenty will disagree :eek:

I have to admit I haven't considered core temp the 10 inch fan is not enough in the summer. But in the winter when my basement is about 45 to 50 degrees it is more than enough and the trainer seems to take alot more effort for the time I spend on it. If I hit the hills when April comes I can peak early because of it so it probably is a good thing. Another thing I notice is with the magnetic trainer it encourages a higher pedal RPM because resistance drops as RPM increases so you get a little reward for pedaling faster this maybe a good thing.

Alex Simmons said:

I used to think that but it's simply adaptation I'd say. Watts are watts. Many can do better indoors, others like me find indoors harder but that is because 99% of my hours are outdoors (generally fab weather year round). If I did 50% on a trainer I bet I'd be able to emulate outdoor power levels just fine (providing there was sufficient cooling available). A fan is not sufficient at room temperature in my view for any more than 30-40 min. Once core temp goes up, power will fall.

MY02_STi said:

I tend to aim for trainer sessions where my AP and NP are almost identical, which, to my way of reasoning, is a very efficient way of training 😎 although I'm sure plenty will disagree :eek:

I think that so long as "efficiency" is not precisely defined, there is nothing to agree or disagree with. Like you, I consider trainer rides to be very "efficient" rides, because I define an efficient ride as one with a high ratio of L4-L7 time to total time on the bike. To be most efficient, the ride should allow me to ride at levels <L4 only as necessary for warmup, cooldown or recovery durations. Nothing is more efficient than the trainer for this purpose (with the exception of a completely flat course with no stops -- e.g., a track). However much time I have available to ride, I know that nothing compares with the trainer for getting maximum training value out of that amount of time.

MY02_STi said:

I was only disagreeing with your statement that training on a trainer was 'less efficient', not with how much power you can generate either on the trainer or on the road. 🙂

What I meant was that for instance I can't come close to my FTP for a 20 minute ride on my trainer. So for for raising my FTP I would believe that a 2x20 on there road where NP and AP are close to FTP would be a more efficent use of my time than doing it at 20 watts below on the trainer? I thought that is was pretty obvious from the context what I meant. Or did you think that I meant I burn more calories per measured watt when on the trainer?

I'm not really clear on wether it was hard to understand what I meant or wether my use of the word efficient is incorrect. By the way I'm not a native english speaker, so it's sometimes hard for me to find the exact optimal words for every sentence. Actually it struck me that maybe I should have used the word effective instead but a look in Webster's dictionary said "practical efficiency" so I guess that one is out too....