Re: Pictures

Tom Keats said:

It would be interesting to teach Tex to first graders.
Maybe start with plainTeX. Get 'em to build their
own macro & style libs.

Ugh. I accused a co-worker of child abuse for teaching vi to his son in
high school -- teaching TeX to elementary students sounds even worse!

Pat

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

and I would not want to even contemplate
teaching first graders how to use a computer before they knew how to
read or spell.

It would be interesting to teach Tex to first graders.
Maybe start with plainTeX. Get 'em to build their
own macro & style libs.

LaTeX is my favorite format for producing documents of all kinds. I
just want to write the damn thing, I don't want to fiddle around with
the layout. Now if I could just convince my work to use that instead of
Word...

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other
invention in human history, with the possible exception of
handguns and tequila." - Mitch Radcliffe

Pat Lamb said:

Tom Keats said:

It would be interesting to teach Tex to first graders.
Maybe start with plainTeX. Get 'em to build their
own macro & style libs.

Ugh. I accused a co-worker of child abuse for teaching vi to his son in
high school -- teaching TeX to elementary students sounds even worse!

Pat

I have to agree. VI sucks unless you are a complete UNIX freak, which
means worse than the average geek.
Bill Baka

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

Pat Lamb said:

Tom Keats said:

It would be interesting to teach Tex to first graders.
Maybe start with plainTeX. Get 'em to build their
own macro & style libs.

Ugh. I accused a co-worker of child abuse for teaching vi to his son in
high school -- teaching TeX to elementary students sounds even worse!

Pat

I have to agree. VI sucks unless you are a complete UNIX freak, which
means worse than the average geek.
Bill Baka

Such very, very twisted people posting here. I hated vi for about a
week, and then I loved it.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

In article <[email hidden]>,

Pat Lamb said:

Tom Keats said:

It would be interesting to teach Tex to first graders.
Maybe start with plainTeX. Get 'em to build their
own macro & style libs.

Ugh. I accused a co-worker of child abuse for teaching vi to his son in
high school

Quite rightly. Shoulda taught him emacs :-)
(Or at least left him with the O'Reilley book.)

Quoted message said:

-- teaching TeX to elementary students sounds even worse!

I think you might have TeX confused with *roff, although
that's useful too -- especially for formatting man pages
for one's own tools, apps and games.

Anyways, TeX provides beautiful computer-borne printable
mathematical formatting, contrary to Bill's purporting
that that capability is currently nonexistant.

BTW (for Bill's edification,) there are implementations
of TeX for all kinds of OSs, probably even CP/M.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

Pat Lamb said:

Tom Keats wrote:
> It would be interesting to teach Tex to first graders.
> Maybe start with plainTeX. Get 'em to build their
> own macro & style libs.
Ugh. I accused a co-worker of child abuse for teaching vi to his son in
high school -- teaching TeX to elementary students sounds even worse!

Pat

I have to agree. VI sucks unless you are a complete UNIX freak, which
means worse than the average geek.
Bill Baka

Such very, very twisted people posting here. I hated vi for about a
week, and then I loved it.

This thread is, once again, way off topic, but why learn VI just because
it is the default Unix editor? There are dozens out there and for plain
text, who really cares? If you want fancy, use Windows and Word if you
are willing to make Billy boy Gates still richer.
Bill Baka

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dane Buson said:

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

and I would not want to even contemplate
teaching first graders how to use a computer before they knew how to
read or spell.

It would be interesting to teach Tex to first graders.
Maybe start with plainTeX. Get 'em to build their
own macro & style libs.

LaTeX is my favorite format for producing documents of all kinds. I
just want to write the damn thing, I don't want to fiddle around with
the layout. Now if I could just convince my work to use that instead of
Word...

Some time ago I cobbled together a basic text2tex formatting
program in SNOBOL4; I should fancy it up a bit more, one of
these days. Text file goes in, TeX marked-up file comes out.
Your choice of fixed (typewriter) or proportional typefaces.

Sometimes it's kind of fun to play with TeX ouput from the
sc spreadsheet calculator.

It's been a long time since I've sullied my typing fingers
with MS-Word -- is it capable of importing PostScript,
or at least .dvi files?

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

For instance how can kids
learn to do mathematics when they are supposed to and need to write
their work and formulas they use on paper? You can't do that on a
computer, at least not yet,

That's what TeX excels at. A TeXpertly formatted equation,
converted to PostScript is a thing of typographical beauty.

Not everybody agrees. I got the following e-mail two days ago:

"Please do not use the following software: LaTex, PCTex, OzTex, Scientific
Word, or any other form of TeX. All are incompatible with our publishing
software." [from an organization with a stable of publications.]

I can't comment further, since I'm not familiar with TeX.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

Pat Lamb wrote:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>> It would be interesting to teach Tex to first graders.
>> Maybe start with plainTeX. Get 'em to build their
>> own macro & style libs.
> Ugh. I accused a co-worker of child abuse for teaching vi to his son in
> high school -- teaching TeX to elementary students sounds even worse!
>
> Pat
I have to agree. VI sucks unless you are a complete UNIX freak, which
means worse than the average geek.
Bill Baka

Such very, very twisted people posting here. I hated vi for about a
week, and then I loved it.

This thread is, once again, way off topic,

You yourself said you like steering threads off-topic yourself.
Now you're complaining when someone else does it? (and more
artistically than you, to boot.)

Quoted message said:

but why learn VI just because
it is the default Unix editor?

It's not VI. It's vi. And there's no default Unix editor.
In fact, there's really no Unix[tm] anymore. Such egregious
use of the Caps key is deplorable.

Quoted message said:

There are dozens out there and for plain
text, who really cares? If you want fancy, use Windows and Word if you
are willing to make Billy boy Gates still richer.

You need to be confronted with a keyboard with a Meta key on it.

PCs -- feh. F-1 this, F-8 that ...

F PCs. <raspberry>

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Bill Baka <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Pat Lamb wrote:
>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>> It would be interesting to teach Tex to first graders.
>>> Maybe start with plainTeX. Get 'em to build their
>>> own macro & style libs.
>> Ugh. I accused a co-worker of child abuse for teaching vi to his son in
>> high school -- teaching TeX to elementary students sounds even worse!
>>
>> Pat
> I have to agree. VI sucks unless you are a complete UNIX freak, which
> means worse than the average geek.
> Bill Baka
Such very, very twisted people posting here. I hated vi for about a
week, and then I loved it.

This thread is, once again, way off topic,

You yourself said you like steering threads off-topic yourself.
Now you're complaining when someone else does it? (and more
artistically than you, to boot.)

VI is artistic? I am not trying to play English professor here nor the
great American novel writer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but why learn VI just because
it is the default Unix editor?

It's not VI. It's vi. And there's no default Unix editor.
In fact, there's really no Unix[tm] anymore. Such egregious
use of the Caps key is deplorable.

Quoted message said:

There are dozens out there and for plain
text, who really cares? If you want fancy, use Windows and Word if you
are willing to make Billy boy Gates still richer.

You need to be confronted with a keyboard with a Meta key on it.

PCs -- feh. F-1 this, F-8 that ...

F PCs. <raspberry>

Agreed sort of. I use old keyboards with no Windows keys and buy them up
for about a dollar each at yard/garage sales. I can type good without F
keys or meta keys or anything Windows. You may have noticed that
sometimes I post here using Linux since I have Suse 10.1, Novell 9,
Debian, Ubuntu, Red Hat, and even Linspire. I am an engineer who likes
to play with different things as long as they aren't VI. I used to love
the old Borland C DOS IDE editors but now that is ten year old history.

RE: Pictures. My daughter lost my 1.3 MP camera so I bought a 2.x MP
Vivitar on Ebay and learned that I had just bought a total POS
replacement. She now gets that one and I have to still buy a decent one
for my trips. My 35mm is just too much since I have to carry extra
lenses, film, actually use the whole roll and then pay to get it
developed at the one hour place at Wal-mart.
Anybody know of a good, cheap, optical zoom digital for bike trips.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

cheers,
Tom

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This thread is, once again, way off topic,

You yourself said you like steering threads off-topic yourself.
Now you're complaining when someone else does it? (and more
artistically than you, to boot.)

VI is artistic?

No, but TeX is.

Especially in emacs' tex-mode.

And again, it's not VI; it's vi. All that uppercase [censored]
is too reminiscent of the ugliness of old VMS. Might as
well be playing on some old air-conditioned [b|p]ig iron VAX
sitting atop removable floor tiles with all the cables
running underneath.

Quoted message said:

I am not trying to play English professor here nor the
great American novel writer.

Yeah. Keep it up.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> This thread is, once again, way off topic,
You yourself said you like steering threads off-topic yourself.
Now you're complaining when someone else does it? (and more
artistically than you, to boot.)

VI is artistic?

No, but TeX is.

Especially in emacs' tex-mode.

And again, it's not VI; it's vi. All that uppercase [censored]
is too reminiscent of the ugliness of old VMS. Might as
well be playing on some old air-conditioned [b|p]ig iron VAX
sitting atop removable floor tiles with all the cables
running underneath.

Quoted message said:

I am not trying to play English professor here nor the
great American novel writer.

Yeah. Keep it up.

What?
I have emacs too but why learn all of them? I am already loaded up with
knowing how to program in Basic, Pascal, C, C++, Java, and more and
wanting to use my head for better things, like planning a ride to
somewhere I have never been. I also know how to use about a dozen CAD
programs, but nearing the big 60 I can only generate as much interest as
I am payed to do.
Have fun, I'm going riding (somewhere) today.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

cheers,
Tom

Mike Kruger said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That's what TeX excels at. A TeXpertly formatted equation,
converted to PostScript is a thing of typographical beauty.

Not everybody agrees. I got the following e-mail two days ago:

"Please do not use the following software: LaTex, PCTex, OzTex, Scientific
Word, or any other form of TeX. All are incompatible with our publishing
software." [from an organization with a stable of publications.]

I can't comment further, since I'm not familiar with TeX.

If this organization publishes anything with significant math equations,
it would be amusing to send them a hard copy (the way we used to do it
back in the dark ages) generated with TeX, and ask them how long it
takes to typeset the equations in their choice of software. Not to
mention compare the TeX-generated equations to those generated by their
"publishing software".

Pat

Tom Keats said:

Some time ago I cobbled together a basic text2tex formatting
program in SNOBOL4; I should fancy it up a bit more, one of
these days. Text file goes in, TeX marked-up file comes out.
Your choice of fixed (typewriter) or proportional typefaces.

I have something similar for my cookbook, mainly so I can use
abbreviations and code words and have things auto-magically transformed
to the LaTeX equivalents. Mainly because I'm lazy.

Quoted message said:

Sometimes it's kind of fun to play with TeX ouput from the
sc spreadsheet calculator.

It's been a long time since I've sullied my typing fingers
with MS-Word -- is it capable of importing PostScript,
or at least .dvi files?

I don't believe so, but then it's not really a program for producing
print-ready output as such, so it's not a fair cop to denigrate for
that. For a multitude of *other* sins sure.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"I think it's about time we voted for senators with breasts.
After all, we've been voting for [censored] long enough."
-Arizona senatorial candidate Claire Sargent, on women candiates.