Does lower "rolling resistance" make a big difference?

rick H came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Hello All,

Mr Wobbly Handlebars again.

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike. I'd like to know whether replacing them with
something a bit "slicker" will speed things up, or is the difference
in moving from bobbly to slick only a subtle one?

I'm mainly riding on roads, cycle paths (liberally sprinkled with broken
glass) and gravel-tracks-with-muddy-puddles.

Yes, it can make a huge difference. As can the correct tyre pressures.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

rick H said:

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike.

Oooh, so does mine! (it's not an EBC Contour 400 by any chance?)

Quoted message said:

I'd like to know whether replacing them with
something a bit "slicker" will speed things up, or is the difference
in moving from bobbly to slick only a subtle one?

I would say "yes", but it's more like _*YES!*_. The Psychos are great
on mud but they're dogs on the road, and putting on a good quality slick
and pumping it up well will make a huge difference to getting around the
place.

Quoted message said:

I'm mainly riding on roads, cycle paths (liberally sprinkled with broken
glass) and gravel-tracks-with-muddy-puddles.

My tourer and folder do that sort of duty, and I use Schwalbe Marathons,
which seem to do the job okay.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"rick H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello All,

Mr Wobbly Handlebars again.

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike. I'd like to know whether replacing them with
something a bit "slicker" will speed things up, or is the difference
in moving from bobbly to slick only a subtle one?

I'm mainly riding on roads, cycle paths (liberally sprinkled with broken
glass) and gravel-tracks-with-muddy-puddles.

Oh yes. A great difference indeed. slicker tyres plus correct pressure. The
difference is noticeable.

Cheers, helen s

rick H said:

Hello All,

Mr Wobbly Handlebars again.

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike. I'd like to know whether replacing them with
something a bit "slicker" will speed things up, or is the difference
in moving from bobbly to slick only a subtle one?

I'm mainly riding on roads, cycle paths (liberally sprinkled with broken
glass) and gravel-tracks-with-muddy-puddles.

--
Rick

Yes, especially at low/medium speeds, but not as much as you'd like due
to aero drag - take a look at
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm and compare an off-road
tyre with a wide slick. IMHO a bike will feel 'sharper' (less tyre
'squirm' under power) with slicks at the correct pressure.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as squeaker
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

rick H said:

Hello All,

Mr Wobbly Handlebars again.

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike. I'd like to know whether replacing them with
something a bit "slicker" will speed things up, or is the difference
in moving from bobbly to slick only a subtle one?

I'm mainly riding on roads, cycle paths (liberally sprinkled with broken
glass) and gravel-tracks-with-muddy-puddles.

Quoted message said:

Yes, especially at low/medium speeds, but not as much as you'd like due
to aero drag - take a look at
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm and compare an off-road
tyre with a wide slick. IMHO a bike will feel 'sharper' (less tyre
'squirm' under power) with slicks at the correct pressure.

Are slick tyres more likely to be punctured by debris on the road, or
does that only apply to the ultra-thin racing ones?

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

Peter Clinch said:

rick H said:

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike.

Oooh, so does mine! (it's not an EBC Contour 400 by any chance?)

No - it's called a Millennium III from Action Bikes (I think that's a
chain, not sure). I was told it was a good bike when I got it, but then
They Would Say That Wouldn't They. I liked the colour.

Quoted message said:

I would say "yes", but it's more like _*YES!*_. The Psychos are great
on mud but they're dogs on the road, and putting on a good quality slick
and pumping it up well will make a huge difference to getting around the
place.

That's exactly what I wanted to know - whether the specific tyres I
have are a drag on the road or not. I'm getting sick of three year-olds
bombing past me on their tricycles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm mainly riding on roads, cycle paths (liberally sprinkled with broken
glass) and gravel-tracks-with-muddy-puddles.

My tourer and folder do that sort of duty, and I use Schwalbe Marathons,
which seem to do the job okay.

Those Marathons look jolly nice, and I like the idea of puncture
protection.

Dumb question - am I going to slide around all over the shop if I put on
something like the Marathons, or are they ok on soggy roads/paths/gravel?

Dumb question II: do I have to replace 26x1.95 tyres with 26x1.95
tyres, or is there some latitude?

--
Rick

quote='rick H'Peter Clinch said:

rick H said:

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike.

Oooh, so does mine! (it's not an EBC Contour 400 by any chance?)

No - it's called a Millennium III from Action Bikes (I think that's a
chain, not sure). I was told it was a good bike when I got it, but then
They Would Say That Wouldn't They. I liked the colour.

Quoted message said:

I would say "yes", but it's more like _*YES!*_. The Psychos are great
on mud but they're dogs on the road, and putting on a good quality slick
and pumping it up well will make a huge difference to getting around the
place.

That's exactly what I wanted to know - whether the specific tyres I
have are a drag on the road or not. I'm getting sick of three year-olds
bombing past me on their tricycles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm mainly riding on roads, cycle paths (liberally sprinkled with broken
glass) and gravel-tracks-with-muddy-puddles.

My tourer and folder do that sort of duty, and I use Schwalbe Marathons,
which seem to do the job okay.

Those Marathons look jolly nice, and I like the idea of puncture
protection.

Dumb question - am I going to slide around all over the shop if I put on
something like the Marathons, or are they ok on soggy roads/paths/gravel?

Dumb question II: do I have to replace 26x1.95 tyres with 26x1.95
tyres, or is there some latitude?

--
Rick[/QUOTE]

The marathons, or other slicks, will be fine on wet roads, paths and gravel, just don;t try going mud plugging with them :-) They also won;t be too good if you're going over technical rocky sections, but from whatyou've said, I doubt you'll be doing that, ofr normal bridleways and tow paths they will be fine.

As for tyre size, you can put on any size tyre you like, within reason (don't put 23mm tyres on an myb rim). Most slicks come in 1.5" versions whch should be perfect for what you want to do. The only problem you may have is that your inner tubes may be a bit on the large size (they may be rated 1.95"-2"😉, so getting some narrower tubes may be a good option (wiggle usually sell tyre sets 2 tyres + 2 tubes).

I've got some Schwalbe City Jets when using my MTB on road, and have had no problem with them (no visits from the p*nct*r* fairy yet), and others on this group use Nokian AWS. I've also got some Specialized Armadillo's on my touring bike, and have had no problem with them (they do various versions of their tyres with Armadillo casing).

Bryan

squeaker said:

[...] take a look at
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm and compare an off-road
tyre with a wide slick. IMHO a bike will feel 'sharper' (less tyre
'squirm' under power) with slicks at the correct pressure.

Well, in addition to the off-road/slick comparison, that website revealed
two things to me:

1. I now know it's acceptable to crawl up a 10% incline.

2. The BMI calculator at the bottom of the page says my BMI is 26, which
is "slightly overweight". At least it's official now!

--
Rick

Bryan said:

The marathons, or other slicks, will be fine on wet roads, paths and
gravel, just don;t try going mud plugging with them :-) They also
won;t be too good if you're going over technical rocky sections, but
from whatyou've said, I doubt you'll be doing that, ofr normal
bridleways and tow paths they will be fine.

About the size of it. On stony surfaces it can be a bit of a game
riding with them at full pressure (100 psi) as the bike will
occasionally jump sideways (not uncontrollably so!) and ping out stones
to the side in an entertaining manner, but not to the point where I've
ever been bothered to let some air out and top up later.

Quoted message said:

As for tyre size, you can put on any size tyre you like, within reason
(don't put 23mm tyres on an myb rim). Most slicks come in 1.5"
versions whch should be perfect for what you want to do.

Indeed, my Marathons are 1.5". The lane we stay on is about equivalent
to a landrover farm track on a hill, and they're never a problem on it.

Quoted message said:

problem you may have is that your inner tubes may be a bit on the large
size (they may be rated 1.95"-2"😉, so getting some narrower tubes may be
a good option (wiggle usually sell tyre sets 2 tyres + 2 tubes).

I've generally found inner tubes to be remarkably interchanageable.
There must be some point at which it breaks down, but I've yet to
discover it. The shop you get the slicks from (Marathons are good but
far from the Only Game In Town) should be able to tell you if your
existing tubes will be okay.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>, rick H

(') said:

Hello All,

Mr Wobbly Handlebars again.

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike. I'd like to know whether replacing them with
something a bit "slicker" will speed things up, or is the difference
in moving from bobbly to slick only a subtle one?

A big difference. About 5% on speed, changing from knobblies to good
slicks. Schwalbe Stelvio is my slick of choice and is extremely fast
rolling but not the most puncture resistant. Nokian AWS also go well,
and have a very slight tread (in a cool pattern). Pure slicks may not be
the best if you have slimey mud, as they can slide.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.'
;; <URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html>

Peter Clinch said:

Bryan said:

As for tyre size, you can put on any size tyre you like, within reason
(don't put 23mm tyres on an myb rim). Most slicks come in 1.5"
versions whch should be perfect for what you want to do.

Indeed, my Marathons are 1.5". The lane we stay on is about equivalent
to a landrover farm track on a hill, and they're never a problem on it.

Thanks, gents. I've had a look at the Schwalbe Marathons available on
Wiggle. I looked at the Plus and Cross flavours, each of which has an
MTB and a Hybrid sub-flavour.

The MTB tyres are sized in inches (26x1.75), but the Hybrids are metric
(700 x 38mm). Well, 38mm is 1.5", but 700mm is NOT 26". I take it,
therefore, that the 700mm Hybrids are not suitable for a 26" MTB wheel?

Oh bugger. Having said that, I've just seen the "Marathon Slick Tyre -
Road", and it says "In Germany the 26" tyre blah blah" but it's listed as
700mm (which is 27.56 inches). What gives!?

--
Rick

rick H said:

2. The BMI calculator at the bottom of the page says my BMI is 26, which
is "slightly overweight". At least it's official now!

Mine is a wee bit more than that (by 10). Officially I am nigh on dead
and unable to move..

Oh well..

...d

rick H said:

but 700mm is NOT 26". I take it,
therefore, that the 700mm Hybrids are not suitable for a 26" MTB wheel?

700 means "700C", a metric measuerment roughly equivalent to the old 27"
wheel size. So definitely not suitable for 26" MTB wheels.

You ought to read this:
<url:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html>

d.

rick H said:

The MTB tyres are sized in inches (26x1.75), but the Hybrids are metric
(700 x 38mm). Well, 38mm is 1.5", but 700mm is NOT 26". I take it,
therefore, that the 700mm Hybrids are not suitable for a 26" MTB wheel?

Indeed. The Magic Number to look for is 559, which is the actual Magic
Number bead diameter for yer ackshewal MTB wheel/tyre.

Marathons definitely come in 26" by 1.5" (559 38mm) 'cause that's what
I've got on my tourer... You can get some at
http://kinetics.org.uk/html/tyre_guide.shtml

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

David Martin said the following on 25/08/2006 11:28:

Quoted message said:

Mine is a wee bit more than that (by 10). Officially I am nigh on dead
and unable to move..

Oh well..

It's just as well we all take these arbitary statistics seriously, isn't
it?? :-) Surely there's a huge health & fitness difference between a 14
stone 6 footer who has grown a bit of a belly through eating junk food,
and a 14 stone 6 footer rugby player. This BMI thingy doesn't seem to
take that into account. What would I know though, I'm the former!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Peter Clinch said:

rick H said:

The MTB tyres are sized in inches (26x1.75), but the Hybrids are metric
(700 x 38mm). Well, 38mm is 1.5", but 700mm is NOT 26". I take it,
therefore, that the 700mm Hybrids are not suitable for a 26" MTB wheel?

Indeed. The Magic Number to look for is 559, which is the actual Magic
Number bead diameter for yer ackshewal MTB wheel/tyre.

In which case I'm puzzled why wiggle refer to the "Schwalbe Marathon Slick Tyre - Road"
as 26" in the text, but 700x35 or 700x30 in the what-do-you-want box.

Quoted message said:

Marathons definitely come in 26" by 1.5" (559 38mm) 'cause that's what
I've got on my tourer... You can get some at
http://kinetics.org.uk/html/tyre_guide.shtml

Yep - seen them on Wiggle - I was looking at the Plus/Cross varieties
of the Marathons, which are only 1.75" for MTBs, but go down to 38mm
for the hybrid versions, the latter being the 700mm ones I was querying.
So the sizes seem to be:
26 x 1.5" for the standard marathons
26 x 1.75" for the Plus/Cross MTB
700 x 35/38mm for the Plus/Cross Hybrid
700 x 30/35mm for the Slick Tyre-Road (but 26" in the write-up)

Seems like Schwalbe's sizes were invented by a committee!

--
Rick

quote='rick H'Peter Clinch said:

Bryan said:

As for tyre size, you can put on any size tyre you like, within reason
(don't put 23mm tyres on an myb rim). Most slicks come in 1.5"
versions whch should be perfect for what you want to do.

Indeed, my Marathons are 1.5". The lane we stay on is about equivalent
to a landrover farm track on a hill, and they're never a problem on it.

Thanks, gents. I've had a look at the Schwalbe Marathons available on
Wiggle. I looked at the Plus and Cross flavours, each of which has an
MTB and a Hybrid sub-flavour.

The MTB tyres are sized in inches (26x1.75), but the Hybrids are metric
(700 x 38mm). Well, 38mm is 1.5", but 700mm is NOT 26". I take it,
therefore, that the 700mm Hybrids are not suitable for a 26" MTB wheel?

Oh bugger. Having said that, I've just seen the "Marathon Slick Tyre -
Road", and it says "In Germany the 26" tyre blah blah" but it's listed as
700mm (which is 27.56 inches). What gives!?

--
Rick[/QUOTE]

Hybrids are what we all used to call 'bikes' rather than racers. These ca with 27" wheels and flat bars. If you check on web sites you'll see sections for:

Road - typically 700C tyres, from 23- 32 mm. The narrow ones are light and fast for racing/training, the wder ones for touring (you can get wider, 32 was purely for example) Usually slick or semi slick. Pressures 85-130 psii

Hybrid - 700C 28-40 mm The width of these tyres means they won;t fit into mist road frames, but can be used on tourers/cross bikes as well as flat bar hybrids. these can be slick, or can also have some tread (for gripping on lose surfaces, not for providing grip[ in the wet). Pressures 60 - 110 psi

MTB road - Same as hybrid tyes but in 26" rather than 700C pressures 60-90psi
MTB off road - 26" nobblies like what you have already, great for going on lose surfaces, mud rocks etc, but not good for road(as you found out), not least 'cause of the bloody noise :-) Pressure 30-80psi depending on whether off or on road.
MTB Down Hill - 26" very wide (typically 2.5" or wider) and HEAVY. Used only for down hill bikes that will be thrown down mountains. They give you great traction and are difficult to pinch flat. Pressure 30-50psi

What you want (I think) is an MTB road tyre. Wiggle do sell Marathons in 26" x 1.5 -1.75 (depending on flavour), but as Pete has mentioned, these aren't the only tyres, so I would look at the price as much as anything (so long as they have some form of p*nct*r* protection).

Bryan

in message <[email hidden]>, Pyromancer

(') said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as squeaker
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

rick H said:

Hello All,

Mr Wobbly Handlebars again.

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike. I'd like to know whether replacing them with
something a bit "slicker" will speed things up, or is the difference
in moving from bobbly to slick only a subtle one?

I'm mainly riding on roads, cycle paths (liberally sprinkled with
broken glass) and gravel-tracks-with-muddy-puddles.

Quoted message said:

Yes, especially at low/medium speeds, but not as much as you'd like due
to aero drag - take a look at
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm and compare an off-road
tyre with a wide slick. IMHO a bike will feel 'sharper' (less tyre
'squirm' under power) with slicks at the correct pressure.

Are slick tyres more likely to be punctured by debris on the road, or
does that only apply to the ultra-thin racing ones?

Ultra thin racing tyres are vulnerable to puncture, slick or not; the
Hutchinson Scorpion Airlights (knobbly) that came as factory-fit on my
Cannondale mountain bike seemed positive thorn magnets. Slick tyres
should not be more vulnerable than non-slick tyres of similar
specification.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'graveyards are full of indispensable people'

in message <[email hidden]>, rick H

(') said:

Peter Clinch said:

rick H said:

My MTB (9 years old) has got Tioga Psycho Edge 26x1.95" tyres on that
came with the bike.

Oooh, so does mine! (it's not an EBC Contour 400 by any chance?)

No - it's called a Millennium III from Action Bikes (I think that's a
chain, not sure). I was told it was a good bike when I got it, but then
They Would Say That Wouldn't They. I liked the colour.

Quoted message said:

I would say "yes", but it's more like _*YES!*_. The Psychos are great
on mud but they're dogs on the road, and putting on a good quality
slick and pumping it up well will make a huge difference to getting
around the place.

That's exactly what I wanted to know - whether the specific tyres I
have are a drag on the road or not. I'm getting sick of three
year-olds bombing past me on their tricycles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm mainly riding on roads, cycle paths (liberally sprinkled with
broken glass) and gravel-tracks-with-muddy-puddles.

My tourer and folder do that sort of duty, and I use Schwalbe
Marathons, which seem to do the job okay.

Those Marathons look jolly nice, and I like the idea of puncture
protection.

Dumb question - am I going to slide around all over the shop if I put
on something like the Marathons, or are they ok on soggy
roads/paths/gravel?

They're OK on wet tarmac and well compacted gravel. Pure slicks don't
like wet, claylike mud, and no bicycle tyre much likes loose gravel.

Quoted message said:

Dumb question II: do I have to replace 26x1.95 tyres with 26x1.95
tyres, or is there some latitude?

There's a lot of latitude. You could certainly go down to 26x1.5 and
probably narrower. Narrower tyres at higher pressures generally mean
lower rolling resistance, but there's a practical limit beyond which it
doesn't make much difference. I used to ride 700Cx20, I now ride 700Cx23
and don't notice any real difference in ride quality. The fatter tyres
don't look so sharp, but they seem to roll equally well and are somewhat
more tolerant of slow punctures (with 20mm tyres even the slightest loss
of pressure is serious).

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.