Vox Populi on an urban bike lane

41 said:

A major, high-traffic urban boulevard here got its lines repainted, and
at the same time the lanes were narrowed to make room for a new bike
lane. A local radio station interviewed some of the riders and asked
their opinion. Follows a rough transcript:

(Interviewer): What do you think of the new bike path? [note: that's
erroneous, it's only a bike lane]
(Female #1): It's wonderful! Our city will be like Amsterdam soon!
They'll be bikes everywhere! We can ride safely! I love it!

(Interviewer): What do you think of the new bike path?
(Male #1): This adds nothing to safety. A real bike path has concrete
dividers that separate it from traffic. That makes it safe. This isn't
a bike path. This is just, they had some extra paint left over, so they
said, "what are we going to do with all this paint? I know, we'll make
a bike path!" It adds nothing to safety.

(Interviewer): What do you think of the new bike path?
(Male #2): This isn't a bike path, it's a joke. What good can it do?
It's useless!

(Interviewer): What do you think of the new bike path?
(Female #2): It's great! Fantastic! You see this? [Presumably pointing
to some scar or other damage] This is from a car that hit me. So you
see, I'm really, really, glad to have the bike path. I'm so relieved!
Now I can ride everywhere in safety!
(Interviewer): So, uh, then why aren't you using it?
(Female #2): Huh?
(Interviewer): I mean, if you think the bike path is such a good idea,
why aren't you using it?
(Female #2): I'm riding the line.
(Interviewer): That's not the bike path. The bike path is over there,
on the other side of the street, that lane with the pictures of
bicycles and the chevrons painted on the road.
(Female #2): Gee, thanks! That's great! I'm really glad you told me!
It's wonderful! I should go over there!

* * *

This reminds me a bit of the bike lanes that were worked into the art
museum circle in Philadelphia. Into and out of the circle, the lanes
were disconnected from eachother, with a dotted line to knowwhere
crossing 4 lanes of traffic southbound on Ben Frankin Parkway.

Before the lanes were put in, I would occasionally get a knucklehead
who would honk etc, but after the lanes were put in and I found that I
still needed to take a real lane to be safe, I would get the equivalent
of the helmet-nazis shouting, "get out of my lane--go use your bike
lane!" etc.

Sheesh.

"41" wrote: (clip) (Interviewer): That's not the bike path. The bike path
is over there, on the other side of the street, that lane with the pictures
of bicycles and the chevrons painted on the road. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sounds sort of implausible to me. The radio station goes out and interviews
riders on the new bike lane, but does it on the WRONG side of the street.

Leo Lichtman said:

"41" wrote: (clip) (Interviewer): That's not the bike path. The bike path
is over there, on the other side of the street, that lane with the pictures
of bicycles and the chevrons painted on the road. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sounds sort of implausible to me. The radio station goes out and interviews
riders on the new bike lane, but does it on the WRONG side of the street.

This was on the radio, not the TV, so I can't say for sure how it went
down. But if I were doing the interviews near the bike lane, and I saw
over on the other side a rider not using it, you can bet I'd want to go
over and ask her why. If she were stopped at a light the opportunity
would be ideal.



41 said:

A major, high-traffic urban boulevard here got its lines repainted, and
at the same time the lanes were narrowed to make room for a new bike
lane.

So, bicyclists' space was reduced to a substandard width lane.

Wayne

41 said:

A major, high-traffic urban boulevard here got its lines repainted, and
at the same time the lanes were narrowed to make room for a new bike
lane.

<snip>

I recently scored a minor bike-lane victory here. There's an
intersection on my daily ride that needed attention. A bike lane on a
well-traveled two-lane thoroughfare with no stop signs or traffic
signals for about 3/4 mile lets vehicles get going pretty fast. It's a
popular route for autos to take to another part of the town, and because
it's uphill, they bikes chug up pretty slowly while the cars zip by. The
bike lane is striped and signed, and it's in the normal location,
between the right lane and the curb.

At the top of the hill the street intersects another busy street with
fast traffic. There is little visibility either way due to the way the
roads curve. Just before hitting the intersection, the right-hand lane
turns into a right turn-only lane. There is no crosswalk there to get
across the intersection, where the bike lane picks up again. A left
turn-only lane is also added at that point. So there are now three lanes.

A cyclist wanting to go straight across the street needs to cross the
right turn-only lane to the center lane. Cars rapidly climbing up the
hill from behind in this lane make it very exciting. Especially when the
grade has the cyclist going about, oh, 1 mile an hour (since this is a
signed bike lane, one must presume all levels of fitness).

If the cyclist survived this maneuver, the next challenge was to get
across the busy intersection. The signals did not sense bicycles. 95% of
the traffic coming up this street is turning right, so our heroic
cyclist waited for a vehicle which shared the desire to proceed directly
across.

So I engaged the city engineers in a protracted e-mail campaign. The
director of the San Diego County Bicycle Coalition lent her hand in the
form of a letter to the city, too.

In response, the city has added video detection to the traffic signals,
so they now reliably "see" a cyclist. The city is also in the process of
resurfacing all the streets in the area, and say they will re-stripe the
bike lane so it crosses the right turn-only lane. The risk of being
tail-ended by a hurried soccer mom in an SUV will remain, but the paint
on the street will provide a visual cue to drivers, to help them
understand that cyclists might be crossing to the center lane.

It ain't much, but we takes our victories where we can.

-- mike elliott

Whoops -- I wrote, "A bike lane on a well-traveled two-lane thoroughfare
with no stop signs or traffic signals for about 3/4 mile lets vehicles
get going pretty fast."

I meant, "A well-traveled two-lane thoroughfare, with a bike lane, and
which has no stop signs or traffic signals for about 3/4 mile give
vehicles plenty of time to get going pretty fast."

The way I originally wrote it makes it sound like the bike lane had
something to do with the speed of the vehicles. But the re-write is a
mess, too. So I'll just have to give the first sentence up as a bad job.

-- mike elliott

Wayne Pein said:

41 said:

A major, high-traffic urban boulevard here got its lines repainted, and
at the same time the lanes were narrowed to make room for a new bike
lane.

So, bicyclists' space was reduced to a substandard width lane.

Wayne

This one is pretty bad:

http://tinyurl.com/k859y

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:00:04 GMT, R Brickston

rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ said:

Wayne Pein said:

41 said:

A major, high-traffic urban boulevard here got its lines repainted, and
at the same time the lanes were narrowed to make room for a new bike
lane.

So, bicyclists' space was reduced to a substandard width lane.

Wayne

This one is pretty bad:

http://tinyurl.com/k859y

Sorry 'bout that, link won't work.

41 said:

Leo Lichtman said:

"41" wrote: (clip) (Interviewer): That's not the bike path. The bike path
is over there, on the other side of the street, that lane with the pictures
of bicycles and the chevrons painted on the road. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sounds sort of implausible to me. The radio station goes out and interviews
riders on the new bike lane, but does it on the WRONG side of the street.

This was on the radio, not the TV, so I can't say for sure how it went
down. But if I were doing the interviews near the bike lane, and I saw
over on the other side a rider not using it, you can bet I'd want to go
over and ask her why. If she were stopped at a light the opportunity
would be ideal.

Is the bike path only on one side of a two-way street? Or on a one-way?

R Brickston said:

Wayne Pein said:

41 said:

A major, high-traffic urban boulevard here got its lines repainted, and
at the same time the lanes were narrowed to make room for a new bike
lane.

So, bicyclists' space was reduced to a substandard width lane.

Wayne

This one is pretty bad:

http://tinyurl.com/k859y

I took that picture of E Poplar St in "Bicycle Friendly" Carrboro, NC.

Wayne

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

The way I originally wrote it makes it sound like the bike lane had
something to do with the speed of the vehicles.

Well, bikes lanes actually DO have something to do with the speed of
motor vehicles: it increases it. How? Two ways.

First, by acting like a shoulder, which it really is except that it is
given a name, Bike Lane. The lowest order of road, a residential street,
often has no markings. The ambiguity induces caution in motorists.
Higher order streets intended to facilitate more and faster motor
traffic add centerlines, edgelines, and still higher have paved shoulder
of increasing width. Shoulders are intended to prevent run-off-road type
collisions, improve sight lines at junctions, and provide a buffer from
roadside elements. A bike lane is merely a named shoulder.

Second, by taking bicyclists out of the travel lane and sequestering
them behind a stripe in a bike containment area, the lanes are cleared
for motorists to go faster and without altering trajectory to pass a
bicyclist.

Wayne
End Bicyclist Apartheid Now. Reject Bike Bantustans.

Wayne Pein said:

R Brickston said:

Wayne Pein said:

41 wrote:

>A major, high-traffic urban boulevard here got its lines repainted, and
>at the same time the lanes were narrowed to make room for a new bike
>lane.

So, bicyclists' space was reduced to a substandard width lane.

Wayne

This one is pretty bad:

http://tinyurl.com/k859y

I took that picture of E Poplar St in "Bicycle Friendly" Carrboro, NC.

Wayne

Night riding, anyone?

Wayne Pein said:

R Brickston said:

Wayne Pein said:

41 wrote:

>A major, high-traffic urban boulevard here got its lines repainted, and
>at the same time the lanes were narrowed to make room for a new bike
>lane.

So, bicyclists' space was reduced to a substandard width lane.

Wayne

This one is pretty bad:

http://tinyurl.com/k859y

I took that picture of E Poplar St in "Bicycle Friendly" Carrboro, NC.

That is pretty bad. We have some ones here of similar width, but
instead of edging a ditch, they edge a curb. There are others a little
wider, two way, one lane facing the wrong way down the street.

Then there are the sidewalks that have been turned into nominal bike
paths. Yes, sidewalks, sometimes asphalted over, sometimes not. They
are quite funny because of course, according to our highway code, (a)
it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, and (b) there is an obligation
to use the bike lane if it exists. Fortunately (a) no bike laws at all
are ever enforced around here, and (b) strangely, those bike lanes on
the sidewalks don't work too bad after all, in some cases. Those cases
are the ones with very wide sidewalks that have been asphalted over for
the purpose of being a bike lane. They retain their sidewalk function
as well, but they are places with very little pedestrian traffic.

Was talking about this with a friend this afternoon, pointing out a
similar bike lane where we were. She said she hadn't realized at first
they were bike lanes, thought the markings (ideographs of bicycles, and
chevrons) were graffiti painted by some bicycle activist group.

Collin O'Neill said:

41 said:

Leo Lichtman said:

"41" wrote: (clip) (Interviewer): That's not the bike path. The bike path
is over there, on the other side of the street, that lane with the pictures
of bicycles and the chevrons painted on the road. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sounds sort of implausible to me. The radio station goes out and interviews
riders on the new bike lane, but does it on the WRONG side of the street.

This was on the radio, not the TV, so I can't say for sure how it went
down. But if I were doing the interviews near the bike lane, and I saw
over on the other side a rider not using it, you can bet I'd want to go
over and ask her why. If she were stopped at a light the opportunity
would be ideal.

Is the bike path only on one side of a two-way street? Or on a one-way?

I haven't been around to see it yet, but as I recall that street is one
way, and from the description I believe the lane would be two way, with
no physical barrier between it and traffic, just the paint. We have
other, real bicycle paths that are wide, and physically separated with
concrete barriers or at least poles, but these are so overused,
especially during rush hours, that it's far better to ride on ordinary
streets. However, the comments of the women I mentioned were telling.
Perceived danger and fear of traffic, and the real danger as well, is a
huge barrier for many ordinary cyclists, who long to be able to ride
separated from motorists. It's unrealistic to expect them to become so
fluent in bicycling that they could handle traffic the way a more
hardened bicyclist does. The public infrastructure is for them too,
they pay for it too, and they have a right to be accomodated.

R Brickston said:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:00:04 GMT, R Brickston

rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ said:

Wayne Pein said:

41 wrote:

> A major, high-traffic urban boulevard here got its lines repainted, and
> at the same time the lanes were narrowed to make room for a new bike
> lane.

So, bicyclists' space was reduced to a substandard width lane.

Wayne

This one is pretty bad:

http://tinyurl.com/k859y

Sorry 'bout that, link won't work.

It worked for me - full URL is:
<http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/uastripes/narrow.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

Wayne Pein said:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

The way I originally wrote it makes it sound like the bike lane had
something to do with the speed of the vehicles.

Well, bikes lanes actually DO have something to do with the speed of
motor vehicles: it increases it. How? Two ways.

First, by acting like a shoulder, which it really is except that it is
given a name, Bike Lane. The lowest order of road, a residential street,
often has no markings. The ambiguity induces caution in motorists.
Higher order streets intended to facilitate more and faster motor
traffic add centerlines, edgelines, and still higher have paved shoulder
of increasing width. Shoulders are intended to prevent run-off-road type
collisions, improve sight lines at junctions, and provide a buffer from
roadside elements. A bike lane is merely a named shoulder.

Second, by taking bicyclists out of the travel lane and sequestering
them behind a stripe in a bike containment area, the lanes are cleared
for motorists to go faster and without altering trajectory to pass a
bicyclist.

In the area where I work (in the 'hood), the painted bike lanes are
used as motor vehicle passing lanes by people driving 20+ mph over the
speed limit.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

41 said:

Then there are the sidewalks that have been turned into nominal bike
paths. Yes, sidewalks, sometimes asphalted over, sometimes not. They
are quite funny because of course, according to our highway code, (a)
it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, and (b) there is an obligation
to use the bike lane if it exists.

Where is "here" that such anti-cycling laws are passed? Do you also
have a mandatory helmet law?

Wayne Pein said:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

The way I originally wrote it makes it sound like the bike lane had
something to do with the speed of the vehicles.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

First, by acting like a shoulder, which it really is except that it is
given a name, Bike Lane. The lowest order of road, a residential street,
often has no markings. The ambiguity induces caution in motorists.
Higher order streets intended to facilitate more and faster motor
traffic add centerlines, edgelines, and still higher have paved shoulder
of increasing width. Shoulders are intended to prevent run-off-road type
collisions, improve sight lines at junctions, and provide a buffer from
roadside elements. A bike lane is merely a named shoulder.

[snip]

Honest question and not an attempt to argue: Do you have any data or
studies to support this view?

The designers I have chatted with have told me time and again that a
driver's perception of road width affects average speed. A lane that
appears narrower, even when not physically narrowed, reduces average
speed. One example given a couple times has been increasing the width
of the outside lane stripe. Another is striping a bike lane.

Quoted message said:

41 said:

Then there are the sidewalks that have been turned into nominal bike
paths. Yes, sidewalks, sometimes asphalted over, sometimes not. Th ey
are quite funny because of course, according to our highway code, (a)
it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, and (b) there is an obligation
to use the bike lane if it exists.

Where is "here" that such anti-cycling laws are passed? Do you also
have a mandatory helmet law?

Here at the moment is where we like to think of ourselves as one of the
"-stan" countries, The People's Republic of Kebekistan. There seems to
be a mandatory helmet law for those under 16, not sure about it though-
should ask some locals. Maybe it is only by municipality. There were
some adult helmet laws by municipality but then it got all confused
when many municipalities were merged into mega cities. But as I say, no
bike laws of any kind seem to be ever enforced, except I suppose helmet
laws for those under 16.